projectsho89
ArboristSite Operative
I guess all those cancelled orders have allowed the remaining ones to move up...
:greenchainsaw:
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Who's waiting and for how long?
- Thread starter RodneyG
- Start date
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I guess all those cancelled orders have allowed the remaining ones to move up...
:greenchainsaw:
mistergreentree
ArboristSite Member
I have a 165 that I got this fall. I absolutely love it and am glad that I purchased it. For what I paid I couldn't have come close with any other stove out there. It does not have all the bells and whistles, but this is why it is cost effective. I like the idea that I can add what I want to it...the way I want. The other stoves all offer more features and things that are great, but I like my Shaver just fine.
On a side note...I have a friend that has one of the other stoves with bells and whistles...his control panel fried after 3 years and he's looking at a $500 replacement part for it...Ouch!
Just thought I would voice the little heard other side of the story
Everyone have a happy Thanksgiving and enjoy your burners!
On a side note...I have a friend that has one of the other stoves with bells and whistles...his control panel fried after 3 years and he's looking at a $500 replacement part for it...Ouch!
Just thought I would voice the little heard other side of the story
Everyone have a happy Thanksgiving and enjoy your burners!woodfurnace
ArboristSite Lurker
Shaver Coal
The short story without the BS from Shaver turns out to be::: that they know the coal burners will not burn coal the way they are sent from the factory. The blowers are too small and the grates are incorrect. Now saying all that I will admit that Shaver sent a PO for a new blower to the customer and he purchased one at Grainger. After 3 weeks of no returned calls.
The grate he will have to wait for Shaver for.
NOW if Shaver has lied to the public about what thier furnaces will do, and they admitted it in an email and over the phone, should anyone trust them?
I can not see how any company that treats people like this could of possibly been in business 36 years, THAT HAS GOT TO BE A LIE TOO.
If there is anyone out there with a positive tone for Shaver, let these guys know about it. One doesn't need a scorecard to tally the numbers so far.
Woodfurnace.. exactly what is Shaver telling the people that ordered the coal grate ? Not that I'd want to, but I was under the impression that you could burn coal as they are if you'd want to put up with the hassle of raking the coals and emptying ...
I hesitate to make a statement so early ( approx 2 weeks ownership ) but the draft motor seems to be plenty, at least for wood. I've got my damper down to 1/4 open and it still gets a bit hotter that the thermostat setting. This is not to sing praises of Shavers technology since I think any draft fan set up will fare better than a damper setup as far as keeping the fires burning.
AND... did anyone else let the fire burn from the back toward the front ? Didn't want to but it just sorta got this way on its own since I started it and haven't turned it around yet. I may have to let the fire go out and try it again. Or at least wait for a warm day and let it almost got out and rake the fire front..
The short story without the BS from Shaver turns out to be::: that they know the coal burners will not burn coal the way they are sent from the factory. The blowers are too small and the grates are incorrect. Now saying all that I will admit that Shaver sent a PO for a new blower to the customer and he purchased one at Grainger. After 3 weeks of no returned calls.
The grate he will have to wait for Shaver for.
NOW if Shaver has lied to the public about what thier furnaces will do, and they admitted it in an email and over the phone, should anyone trust them?
I can not see how any company that treats people like this could of possibly been in business 36 years, THAT HAS GOT TO BE A LIE TOO.
urhstry
ArboristSite Operative
Well here is my take on things. My furnace WILL be delivered because I got an outside trucking company to deliver it. That takes care of the Weld-rite break-downs. As far as the coal option, it is my understanding that once you find the sweet spot for the "control" flap on the fan, it must be widened for more air when you burn coal. Coal needs more air tfor combustion so you have to adjust accordingly. Also, since we ARE talking the entire USA, there are two types of coal and there are definitely two differences on how they burn.
woodfurnace
ArboristSite Lurker
Good luck with that.
Well the only thing I can say is this. Shaver called my company and said 24 furnaces were ready for pickup. I hired frieght quote to get a truck there to pick them up. The bill with Shaver was paid in full as was the trucking bill.
2 days later the trucker called me and said that Shaver turned him away because the order was misplaced or not finished. I was very upset because this little Shaver screwup cost me close to $5000.00 in trucking with out being able to get the product.
Shavers excuse was, weeeellllll we thought we were ready but they are just not done yet.....
So good luck with that, I hope you are listened to more than a company that does hundreds of thousnads of dollars worth of business. Shaver is shamefull.
Well the only thing I can say is this. Shaver called my company and said 24 furnaces were ready for pickup. I hired frieght quote to get a truck there to pick them up. The bill with Shaver was paid in full as was the trucking bill.
2 days later the trucker called me and said that Shaver turned him away because the order was misplaced or not finished. I was very upset because this little Shaver screwup cost me close to $5000.00 in trucking with out being able to get the product.
Shavers excuse was, weeeellllll we thought we were ready but they are just not done yet.....
So good luck with that, I hope you are listened to more than a company that does hundreds of thousnads of dollars worth of business. Shaver is shamefull.
Windwalker7
ArboristSite Guru
My dealer had a similar problem. He had 4 furnaces ordered. Shaver said they were all done and waiting for delivery. My dealer was promised several delivery dates but things always fell through.
One of the excuses was that the truck had broke down.
My dealer decided to go down and pick up the furnaces himself. He called to make arrangments for the pick up.
Suddenly, the story changed, 2 of the furnaces weren't done yet and it would be 2 more weeks.
Funny, how weeks before they were all done but they had delivery truck break downs and then all of a sudden two of them weren't completed yet.
Lies, lies, lies.....
That being said, I'll tell you another one. The furnace I got was the wrong color from what I ordered. I ordered Tan 855 and got an Ivory 883.
When the dealer rolled in with it, I could have sh!t my pants.
After all the delays, I was just glad to get the darn thing, regardless of color.
One of the excuses was that the truck had broke down.
My dealer decided to go down and pick up the furnaces himself. He called to make arrangments for the pick up.
Suddenly, the story changed, 2 of the furnaces weren't done yet and it would be 2 more weeks.
Funny, how weeks before they were all done but they had delivery truck break downs and then all of a sudden two of them weren't completed yet.
Lies, lies, lies.....
That being said, I'll tell you another one. The furnace I got was the wrong color from what I ordered. I ordered Tan 855 and got an Ivory 883.
When the dealer rolled in with it, I could have sh!t my pants.
After all the delays, I was just glad to get the darn thing, regardless of color.
fletcher0780
ArboristSite Operative
What blower did they tell him to use?
I kinda feel for the Shaver co., but they bring it on to themselves. They could be sooooo much more if they got it together. Instead they have painted a dark picture for themselves. Hope they recover after this big rush for stoves.
LT...
LT...
ngzcaz
ArboristSite Operative
Absolutely correct.. and it seems Ben has been absent for a week or so. Perhaps rightly so since the answers he was giving was only making the situation worse. Seems hard to believe the rush is still on for OWB's since the price of oil is waaay down from just a few months ago and the economy's in the dumps as well. We must be the ones that have just enough money to pay the taxes to support everyone else.. : - )
:agree2:
Shaver 165
3 14in Poulans
D-180 Wheel Horse
1054 Bolens
27 ton Huskee splitter ready to be picked up ( Christmas present from my son )
:agree2:
Shaver 165
3 14in Poulans
D-180 Wheel Horse
1054 Bolens
27 ton Huskee splitter ready to be picked up ( Christmas present from my son )
woodfurnace
ArboristSite Lurker
Normally I would feel for a company who got in over thier head, BUT NOT with all the lies. And the quality is in the chitter. The lies multiplied every time you talked to them. And if they had a fantastic product everyone might be a little more forgiving, BUT THEY DO NOT !! They probibly have the worst quality control on the market.
The blower is a good question, I have not seen it yet, but the customer said it was a thermostaticaly controlled model which is the one Shaver said he needed.
And the "custom" grate will me mailed to the customer direct.
The blower is a good question, I have not seen it yet, but the customer said it was a thermostaticaly controlled model which is the one Shaver said he needed.
And the "custom" grate will me mailed to the customer direct.
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woodfurnace
ArboristSite Lurker
Maybe they fired him, it might be a good first move to digging there way out of the hole he created.
They could use that money to hire a quality control officer.
MyOutdoors
New Member
I read a few people on other sites about the customer satisfaction and broken promises. I emailed Shaver and let them know due to all the negative feedback I would not purchase their OWB. Ben sent me a nice detailed message how they were overwhelmed with orders and lack of space, etc. I read this topic today and noticed the same exact email and message that he sent me yesterday was listed here back in a October post. He must have written up a formal excuse and cut/paste it to his customers. Personally, I'd be careful doing business with people like this.
ngzcaz
ArboristSite Operative
I could be wrong but I believe the owner and he are brothers. Billy Shaver was great to talk to, Ben talks the talk but seems to have difficulty walking the walk..
This MAY have passed over the head of most of us.. but did anyone notice we all may have been hooking up the inlet and outlet incorrectly ? Wood boiler solutions mentioned this when I ordered the chemicals but it didnt sink in until I saw the post a while back. This could account for the hot spots and other circulatory problems a few have mentioned.. Shaver should absolutely notify its customers if this should be reversed..
I swear I'm going to start a Shaver positive post.. I have the darn thing and it does have its good points.
:censored:
This MAY have passed over the head of most of us.. but did anyone notice we all may have been hooking up the inlet and outlet incorrectly ? Wood boiler solutions mentioned this when I ordered the chemicals but it didnt sink in until I saw the post a while back. This could account for the hot spots and other circulatory problems a few have mentioned.. Shaver should absolutely notify its customers if this should be reversed..
I swear I'm going to start a Shaver positive post.. I have the darn thing and it does have its good points.
:censored:
woodfurnace
ArboristSite Lurker
No relation
Ben and Billy are not related. They are high school drinking buddies. From what I understand from people who know them, the only reason Ben works with Shaver is because of a BET.
Ben bragged about being able to sell anything on the internet, an agreement was hatched and Ben is selling furnaces and knows absolutly nothing about what the factory is doing.
Ben's income comes from sales he makes on the net, kick backs from suppliers, and that puts dealers orders behind every time he sells one. And if your order as a dealer is ready and Ben needs a furnace from it for one of his internet sales he takes it and you are short. So it makes the dealers look like idiots and it makes Ben look great.
This is not a company that needs dealers, they do not take care of dealers at all, and have no regaurd for thier customers.
The only thing they have is a good website, which Ben will tell you, it has NOTHING to do with Shaver it is ONLY Ben's website.
I guess Billy does not care that someone is screwing up the family name.
Ben and Billy are not related. They are high school drinking buddies. From what I understand from people who know them, the only reason Ben works with Shaver is because of a BET.
Ben bragged about being able to sell anything on the internet, an agreement was hatched and Ben is selling furnaces and knows absolutly nothing about what the factory is doing.
Ben's income comes from sales he makes on the net, kick backs from suppliers, and that puts dealers orders behind every time he sells one. And if your order as a dealer is ready and Ben needs a furnace from it for one of his internet sales he takes it and you are short. So it makes the dealers look like idiots and it makes Ben look great.
This is not a company that needs dealers, they do not take care of dealers at all, and have no regaurd for thier customers.
The only thing they have is a good website, which Ben will tell you, it has NOTHING to do with Shaver it is ONLY Ben's website.
I guess Billy does not care that someone is screwing up the family name.
ngzcaz
ArboristSite Operative
Well, if some or all of this is true, perhaps people should be calling or e mailing Billy Shaver directly instead of thru Ben ??
ShaverFurnace
ArboristSite Member
The truth
Why is it the same?
Because it is the truth.
The truth doesn't change.
If it CHANGED, THEN I would worry!
Why is it the same?
Because it is the truth.
The truth doesn't change.
If it CHANGED, THEN I would worry!
ShaverFurnace
ArboristSite Member
Not that many cancellations
I only know of 2 dozen cancelled orders and then half of those people came back and say forget the cancellation. They wanted the stove after all, after looking elsewhere.
Things are moving forward because they purchased the plant next door and DOUBLED production.
I only know of 2 dozen cancelled orders and then half of those people came back and say forget the cancellation. They wanted the stove after all, after looking elsewhere.
Things are moving forward because they purchased the plant next door and DOUBLED production.
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ShaverFurnace
ArboristSite Member
"I appreciate you handling the matter promptly, he said."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OK, I've HAD ENOUGH of WOODFURNACES's LIES!
To set the record STRAIGHT, customers started burning coal in our WOOD furnace three years ago.
Many of them wrote and called and told us how good it worked.
This was a STANDARD WOOD furnace.
Then they started asking us to make a shaker grate AND they offered to help design one.
One fellow had a lot of experience with coal and worked with us to create the ONLY adjustable shaker grate(that I know of) on the market.
This was CUSTOMER's IDEAS!
We started with one to this gentleman to see how well if worked before making more.
HE RAVED ABOUT IT and is now a dealer for us - he liked it so much!
There has been only ONE complaint and that was from a customer who burnt NUT or RICE coal.
That coal is too dense too blow air through it with the normal fan.
Also, the coal was too FINE and fell through the grate.
WE ORDERED one from Grainger (their biggest model that will fit our flange), as soon as we realized what the problem was.
(We don't have coal in AR and depended on feedback from customers to do what THEY asked for.)
We also shipped out a grate within a week (actually just a few days after he contacted us on the 13th.
Even the dealer was claiming WEEKS until I reminded him that it was the ONE AND ONLY call about the coal grate and it was only 5 days earlier INCLUDING THE WEEKEND!
The whole problem was RESOLVED and NOT in 3 weeks but 3 working DAYS!
Here is the reply from the dealer on the 18th of Nov.
"Ben: Greetings, Mr. B_______ picked up his blower today and is waiting for shipment on the grate . please have Ray call him tommorrow to discuss the function/operation of the blower because it did not come with any instructions on how to tie it to the thermostat and does not have a damper on it. he is curious on how it works...as am I. When Mr. Baldauf's retro fit is successfully installed I will relay the results to you and my other coal customers to see if they would like to go the same route.. The bagged "nut" sized coal is very popular in our area as bulk coal is hard to get. Most of my coal customers (5) total are burning a combo of wood and coal. However firewood has shot through the roof and coal has remained "cheap".
I don't think you need to redo the coal models/pricing as much as just informing people that it will not burn small coal with out a "small coal Retrofit kit" that is a _??___$ option. As you know people read the literature and spend the money they expect it to work in all cases.
The cold weather is putting unneeded pressure on us all. I do apologize if i was out of line and I appreciate you handling the matter promptly. I will check with Mr. B______ this weekend and relay the results to you."
Did you get that?
"I appreciate you handling the matter promptly, he said."
WOOD FURNACE is a disenchantized former dealer who is mad because I took him off the website. He definitely has an axe to grind and is doing it HERE. He is out to hurt us and THAT should be taken with a grain of salt.
Best regards,
Ben
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OK, I've HAD ENOUGH of WOODFURNACES's LIES!
To set the record STRAIGHT, customers started burning coal in our WOOD furnace three years ago.
Many of them wrote and called and told us how good it worked.
This was a STANDARD WOOD furnace.
Then they started asking us to make a shaker grate AND they offered to help design one.
One fellow had a lot of experience with coal and worked with us to create the ONLY adjustable shaker grate(that I know of) on the market.
This was CUSTOMER's IDEAS!
We started with one to this gentleman to see how well if worked before making more.
HE RAVED ABOUT IT and is now a dealer for us - he liked it so much!
There has been only ONE complaint and that was from a customer who burnt NUT or RICE coal.
That coal is too dense too blow air through it with the normal fan.
Also, the coal was too FINE and fell through the grate.
WE ORDERED one from Grainger (their biggest model that will fit our flange), as soon as we realized what the problem was.
(We don't have coal in AR and depended on feedback from customers to do what THEY asked for.)
We also shipped out a grate within a week (actually just a few days after he contacted us on the 13th.
Even the dealer was claiming WEEKS until I reminded him that it was the ONE AND ONLY call about the coal grate and it was only 5 days earlier INCLUDING THE WEEKEND!
The whole problem was RESOLVED and NOT in 3 weeks but 3 working DAYS!
Here is the reply from the dealer on the 18th of Nov.
"Ben: Greetings, Mr. B_______ picked up his blower today and is waiting for shipment on the grate . please have Ray call him tommorrow to discuss the function/operation of the blower because it did not come with any instructions on how to tie it to the thermostat and does not have a damper on it. he is curious on how it works...as am I. When Mr. Baldauf's retro fit is successfully installed I will relay the results to you and my other coal customers to see if they would like to go the same route.. The bagged "nut" sized coal is very popular in our area as bulk coal is hard to get. Most of my coal customers (5) total are burning a combo of wood and coal. However firewood has shot through the roof and coal has remained "cheap".
I don't think you need to redo the coal models/pricing as much as just informing people that it will not burn small coal with out a "small coal Retrofit kit" that is a _??___$ option. As you know people read the literature and spend the money they expect it to work in all cases.
The cold weather is putting unneeded pressure on us all. I do apologize if i was out of line and I appreciate you handling the matter promptly. I will check with Mr. B______ this weekend and relay the results to you."
Did you get that?
"I appreciate you handling the matter promptly, he said."
WOOD FURNACE is a disenchantized former dealer who is mad because I took him off the website. He definitely has an axe to grind and is doing it HERE. He is out to hurt us and THAT should be taken with a grain of salt.
Best regards,
Ben
ShaverFurnace
ArboristSite Member
ShaverFurnace
ArboristSite Member
Brothers? Positive posts and more...
Thanks for the idea about a POSITIVE shaver post. It's about time!
Unfortunately, not many people take the time to go online and say nice things.
I get a lot of e-mails saying how happy people are and how great the furnace works - but I don't believe I can post them here.
Billy and I are NOT brothers. We met only three years ago.
Walking the walk? I can only report WHAT I AM TOLD!
I depend on what the factory says. I am 700 miles away in another state.
I get the same (often bad) information that the dealers get. I pass this bad information on unknowingly.
I put up the websites, set up the dealers for Billy and sell their furnaces from my website.
I don't know any more than what they tell me! Unfortunately, a lot of this hasn't been true. I won't call it LIES but I can tell you with certainty that they had no idea how many orders were coming in!
THAT is what got them in this mess.
They NOW have a dealer website, where all the dealers can go and place, modify and track orders.
NOW, everyone, including the factory, will know exactly what is going on.
Every furnace will have a bar code and production can be tracked.
With every step in the operation, an e-mail will go out as to where it is in the process.
This new tracking system was ordered in MAY but just got finished A WEEK AGO. Broken promises and delays from the developer caused a LOT of this problem!
Another big mess was trying to track all of this AFTER all of the orders came in. They had three people doing calendars (a big mistake) and the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing.
Workers would look at a PRODUCTION calendar and give people a DELIVERY date which could be 2-3 weeks away (without a myriad of break-downs). Workers were making calendars without getting the big picture. Workers were saying what they saw - but depending on where production actually was, it was probably off a couple of weeks. Not LIES but very inaccurate information. Workers were saying what they saw - but depending on who wrote it there, it could (was probably) wrong!
I don't believe anyone was internationally lied to even though it felt like it.
YES, I suppose you could SAY it is my fault for selling too many and setting up too many dealers. But no one told me to stop or that we were behind!
But it is NOT my fault after that point.
Yet, I take all the bashing for trying to help people get answers.
I have ZERO financial stake in the company. I am not an officer. I am not a family member or distant relative. I have an independent business.
When I came back from vacation in MAY, I called Billy and asked him how far behind we were because I didn't want to go what we went through last year - which wasn't near as bad but felt bad. I simply didn't want THIS grief!
At first the answer was 6 weeks, then it changed to 8 weeks a few days later. That was far from true - but Billy didn't know it - and so people were "LIED" to. All because all tracking was down on paper.
WE ARE HUMAN FOLKS!
Best regards,
Ben
When that projection didn't seem to be happening, I called in early AUgust and demanded that they sit down and take as much time as it takes, to tell me exactly where they were at because I didn't want ot be lying to people or even appear to be lying.
At that pont we found that is was more like 17-18 weeks behind. YIKES!
Shortly therafeter I even extended the projection myself to nid-to latter Dec. I posted thqat on the website and told that to all the dealers in an e-mail
Thanks for the idea about a POSITIVE shaver post. It's about time!
Unfortunately, not many people take the time to go online and say nice things.
I get a lot of e-mails saying how happy people are and how great the furnace works - but I don't believe I can post them here.
Billy and I are NOT brothers. We met only three years ago.
Walking the walk? I can only report WHAT I AM TOLD!
I depend on what the factory says. I am 700 miles away in another state.
I get the same (often bad) information that the dealers get. I pass this bad information on unknowingly.
I put up the websites, set up the dealers for Billy and sell their furnaces from my website.
I don't know any more than what they tell me! Unfortunately, a lot of this hasn't been true. I won't call it LIES but I can tell you with certainty that they had no idea how many orders were coming in!
THAT is what got them in this mess.
They NOW have a dealer website, where all the dealers can go and place, modify and track orders.
NOW, everyone, including the factory, will know exactly what is going on.
Every furnace will have a bar code and production can be tracked.
With every step in the operation, an e-mail will go out as to where it is in the process.
This new tracking system was ordered in MAY but just got finished A WEEK AGO. Broken promises and delays from the developer caused a LOT of this problem!
Another big mess was trying to track all of this AFTER all of the orders came in. They had three people doing calendars (a big mistake) and the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing.
Workers would look at a PRODUCTION calendar and give people a DELIVERY date which could be 2-3 weeks away (without a myriad of break-downs). Workers were making calendars without getting the big picture. Workers were saying what they saw - but depending on where production actually was, it was probably off a couple of weeks. Not LIES but very inaccurate information. Workers were saying what they saw - but depending on who wrote it there, it could (was probably) wrong!
I don't believe anyone was internationally lied to even though it felt like it.
YES, I suppose you could SAY it is my fault for selling too many and setting up too many dealers. But no one told me to stop or that we were behind!
But it is NOT my fault after that point.
Yet, I take all the bashing for trying to help people get answers.
I have ZERO financial stake in the company. I am not an officer. I am not a family member or distant relative. I have an independent business.
When I came back from vacation in MAY, I called Billy and asked him how far behind we were because I didn't want to go what we went through last year - which wasn't near as bad but felt bad. I simply didn't want THIS grief!
At first the answer was 6 weeks, then it changed to 8 weeks a few days later. That was far from true - but Billy didn't know it - and so people were "LIED" to. All because all tracking was down on paper.
WE ARE HUMAN FOLKS!
Best regards,
Ben
When that projection didn't seem to be happening, I called in early AUgust and demanded that they sit down and take as much time as it takes, to tell me exactly where they were at because I didn't want ot be lying to people or even appear to be lying.
At that pont we found that is was more like 17-18 weeks behind. YIKES!
Shortly therafeter I even extended the projection myself to nid-to latter Dec. I posted thqat on the website and told that to all the dealers in an e-mail
