Yamabond 4 or 5?

[crammit442]

The current Yamabond 4 is NOT the same formula it was 8-10 years ago. It used to be relabeled Three Bond 1211. 1211 is a little pricey, but is the gold standard. It's the OE case sealer on nearly every Japanese 2 (and 4) stroke made. Fuel/oil has no effect on it and in my experience it's the best bonding and sealing product available by a large margin. A cured sample of 1211 will retain it's strength and elasticity in a jar of premix indefinitely. Three Bond 1104/1184 are ok, but nowhere as good as 1211. I don't know a single 2 stroke race builder that doesn't use it. It only takes a thin coat, just enough for a slight squeeze out. Works excellent is a gasket sealer as well.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw2jM6Bd5qcgfO9IvyadfNm-&cshid=1592683770600[/URL]

 

[Okie]

The current Yamabond 4 is NOT the same formula it was 8-10 years ago. It used to be relabeled Three Bond 1211. 1211 is a little pricey, but is the gold standard. It's the OE case sealer on nearly every Japanese 2 (and 4) stroke made. Fuel/oil has no effect on it and in my experience it's the best bonding and sealing product available by a large margin. A cured sample of 1211 will retain it's strength and elasticity in a jar of premix indefinitely. Three Bond 1104/1184 are ok, but nowhere as good as 1211. I don't know a single 2 stroke race builder that doesn't use it. It only takes a thin coat, just enough for a slight squeeze out. Works excellent is a gasket sealer as well.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw2jM6Bd5qcgfO9IvyadfNm-&cshid=1592683770600[/URL]

Is this what you are saying is the good stuff???? (sure is pricy)

Your link did not work

https://www.amazon.com/Three-Bond-E...eebond+1211&qid=1592686521&sr=8-1&tag=mh0b-20

 

[crammit442]

Is this what you are saying is the good stuff???? (sure is pricy)

Your link did not work

https://www.amazon.com/Three-Bond-E...eebond+1211&qid=1592686521&sr=8-1&tag=mh0b-20

Oops! Sorry about the dead link. Threebond 1211 is what has been rebranded in most case sealants i.e., Kawibond, Hondabond, Suzukibond, Yamabond 4, etc. I've never heard a definitive reason why, but sometime in the late 2000's, the Yamabond 4 formulation changed. It's still a 3 Bond product (probably 1104/94/84), but is thinner, and will dissolve in fuel over time. Out of curiosity, (mine and my engine builder's) we cured small samples (neat as well as bonded billet pieces) of popular case/flange sealants like Loctite 518 (anaerobic) and several other Three Bond and similar "fan favorites". When submerged in premixed fuel/oil after full recommended cure times, 1211 was the only sealant that never softened or dissolved. 1211 also has better padding properties. Anaerobic sealants work fine when everything is just right, but since they ONLY cure in the absence of air, any area that isn't perfectly flat or has a small scar can remain uncured and dissolve in fuel. This is just my opinion/experience.

 

[Brent Nowell]

Hondabond works as well i have used it a few times with good longevity results

 

[crammit442]

Hondabond works as well i have used it a few times with good longevity results

It's worked well for me also.

 

[Brent Nowell]

It's worked well for me also.

One thing i hate about it is how stringy it is!

 

[crammit442]

One thing i hate about it is how stringy it is!

I think maybe the stringy goodness is part of why it works so well. My shop apron is covered in small light grey finger smears from wiping little dabs of 1211 off my fingers.

 

[Rennsman]

Oops! Sorry about the dead link. Threebond 1211 is what has been rebranded in most case sealants i.e., Kawibond, Hondabond, Suzukibond, Yamabond 4, etc. I've never heard a definitive reason why, but sometime in the late 2000's, the Yamabond 4 formulation changed. It's still a 3 Bond product (probably 1104/94/84), but is thinner, and will dissolve in fuel over time. Out of curiosity, (mine and my engine builder's) we cured small samples (neat as well as bonded billet pieces) of popular case/flange sealants like Loctite 518 (anaerobic) and several other Three Bond and similar "fan favorites". When submerged in premixed fuel/oil after full recommended cure times, 1211 was the only sealant that never softened or dissolved. 1211 also has better padding properties. Anaerobic sealants work fine when everything is just right, but since they ONLY cure in the absence of air, any area that isn't perfectly flat or has a small scar can remain uncured and dissolve in fuel. This is just my opinion/experience.

Interesting, thanks for posting.

Do you know if Three bond 1215 was tested? I believe that is what yamabond is these days.

Ducati bond is also 1215.

Hondabond 4 is 1194, maybe 1184 now, but basically the same.

Hondabond HT is 1216E

Kawasaki bond is 1216

Suzuki bond is 1207B

Echo recommend loctite 518

Been looking at specs, 1215 should be more fuel resistant than 1211 and 1184 from the looks of it, but sounds like it isn't?

1207C looks about the most gasoline resistant, this was Shindaiwas replacement to 1104/1184

Many different 12xx products to choose from.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

.
Yamahabond-4 is the identical product Threebond 1215 - both an RTV silicone, neither are fuel resistant.

Dirko too is an RTV Silicone and is not fuel resistant.

These products were never designed to come into contact with fuel and their composition will change.
They lose elasticity and adhesion when they do.

The only products that can withstand fuel contact are of a rubber base and cure via solvent evaporation.

Permatex Motoseal and Theeebond act in the same way in that they are both fuel resistant and cure via chemical evaporation, but the resulting rubber gasket is very different. Motoseal is much slower to cure and doesn’t have the adhesive properties of 1104. If you let a blob of Motoseal cure you can see it is more elastic, basically like new bluetac, while doing the same with 1104 results in something akin to old bluetac, harder, less flexible but can still be moulded. Doesn’t stretch as much.

Yamahabond 4 -RTV silicone sealant, not fuel resistant.

Threebond 1104 - Fuel resistant, chemical evaporation, cures to a medium firm rubber, good adhesive properties. Tack time 1-4 mins

Permatex Motoseal - Fuel Resistant, chemical evaporation, cures to a soft rubber, poor adhesive properties, tack time 3-8 mins

Dirko HT Red - RTV Silicone Sealant, not fuel resistant.

In real world testing, does any of this matter in saws? Apparently not, Stihl has used Dirko Ht for decades, and still recommends it for their clammy’s. I have never heard of one Dirko Ht red failure.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

I’ll also add, it doesn’t matter if you are using a “fuel resistant” sealant - it is still not designed to be in constant contact with fuel. If you put fuel in direct contact with Motoseal or threebond 1104 / 1184 / 1194 (Essentially the same sealer for all intents and purposes) both of which specifically state fuel resistance, and gently wipe it around, it will start to dissolve the cured sealants almost instantly. They are not fuel proof - you wouldn’t use them to fix a fuel tank, carb bowl seal etc.

I have also tested Threebond 1104 before and after it’s come into contact with fuel. Prior it would hold adhesion to over 30 psi and after 10 mins it broke away at 15 psi.

This is why I believe it really doesn’t matter what you use, all of the main known sealants work fine.

I do know though that although Dirko is instantly affected by fuel, it is able to hold a seal simply because it doesn’t actually dissolve, it retains its shape. It’s only when the mating surfaces are removed it loses it and will curl up.

Yamahabond 4 is, as above, just a silicone too. Though it doesn’t contain acetic acid as the curing agent, instead it uses vinyloxime silanes and methyloxime as a curing agent. The difference is the skin formation time is quicker in Yamahabond 4.

There we go, a full 360 degree circle. I started off with Dirko, tried and tested a heap of sealants to find a favourite, ended up not liking the others for one reason or another and ended up back at Dirko. Use what you wish, it makes zero difference.