93-year-old froze to death, owed big utility bill

[trimmmed]

Disgusting ! A WWII vet dies because he can't afford his electric bill, yet we have ILLEGAL ALIENS getting free housing, food, heat, education, ect.

Am I the only one who see a problem here???

####ING DISGUSTING !!

:agree2:

 

[avalancher]

Not at all Ductape: I was just reading a day or so ago how our country is spending around 330 BILLION a year to support Illegals. I share your disgust but wonder just what it's going to take to get things back where they belong. As things stand right now, I am not all that hopeful.

Maplemeister:

There really isnt any hope for turning the system around until the proper folks have had enough.
My wife teaches for a living, and has seen first hand what Tennessee has done about our local illegal immigration problem.They hand them a check.
Part of my wifes duties is to help immigrants fill out all the proper forms to receive what they call, "Education Assistance"
Forms are filled out to provide funds for free lunches, proper clothing, writing materials, and (this is the official term)Saturation funding.Saturation funding is meant to provide funds for items that will help them blend in with the rest of the children in the school system such as Ipods,laptop computers, designer clothes, and cell phones.As my wife has noted, its only the hispanic children in her classroom that have the funds for these things.

My wife also spends 6 hours a week after school tutoring immigrant children to speak English. The county pays 28.00 dollars an hour for this to the teachers, currently the county has 31 teachers working in this role.
Her school also has 4 teachers that work full time teaching nothing but English as a second language.Salary for those teachers are in the 64K range.

Then there are the textbooks written in Spanish. Each book costs 60.00 bucks a piece.Teachers edition is a little over 100.00.

At last count, Hamlen County pays 745,000 a year to accomodate immigrant children, the state forks over a little over 87 million a year for them. This of coarse is independent to welfare,social security, or any other funds that go to living expenses, etc.

And we cant help the elderly veterans with their measly electric bill?

 

[oldchuck]

Interesting how some folks will turn this sad story around into a rant against immigrants or a rant against big business.

If I read it correctly the utility is city owned in a town that has few hispanics, not some multinational in Arizona.

 

[MishMouse]

This is a very sad story and I do think the power company should be held responsible for this persons death and here are my reasons:
1) They installed the limiter without the knowledge of the resident
2) Once installed they became liable for the resident's well being since the purpose of the limiter was to shut off power to the residence
3) The power company knew of the weather conditions and knew that if power was shut off it could mean a person's life.
4) A power company is in it to make a profit yes, but since they are a public utility they have a responsibility to the community.
A scenario: What if the power company was using to much electricity during Jan so they decide to cut power to certain areas for a week to save money?
Would that also be right, hey it is for a profit?

My main question is why doesn't MI have laws that stop this from happening. I know in MN and WI there are laws that stop power companies from shutting off the power to people during the winter reguardless of the amount they owe.

 

[Basso]

Hello,
I agree with Ductape !!!!!!!


Basso

 

[avalancher]

Interesting how some folks will turn this sad story around into a rant against immigrants or a rant against big business.

If I read it correctly the utility is city owned in a town that has few hispanics, not some multinational in Arizona.

I dont believe the rant against immigrants was totally unfounded or off topic.
The illegal immigrants in our country is a vital concern to us all because it takes away valuable resources from citizens that have lived here all their lives. It also is a indisputable example of government waste that could be used in a more viable manner.

To get back on topic, the subject rubbed me so hard I decided to give our local utility company to see what their policy was if they were faced with such a situation.

According to our local utility, when a person is unable or unwilling to pay their bill, a visit or phone call is made to establish which is which. If there is any doubt as to the persons need, a home visit is made to not only establish the need, but a home audit is made to help the person minimize electric consumption. Often homes are poorly insulated, poor windows, etc. If this is the case, funding is available at no cost to bring the home up to standards, provided by several federally funded programs.

Once need has been established, a special fund is tapped into to help.This is funded by local merchants, including our local hospital, mental health facility, and many local stores.It brightened me a great deal to learn that our local saw shop is a big contributor.Even Walmart helps with this fund.

Once the bill has been brought up to current, a plan is developed to continue funding. Certain guidlines have to be met, income status, available resources such as property, bank accounts, etc. The electric bill is then tailored to what the person can afford, alloting what the auditor feels is a adequate amount of electricity to power the home comfortably.

Once the program has been admistered, it is then passed on to a local charity that helps senior citizens with home visits, rides to the store, food banks, etc.

As our local rep guy mentioned, all big business needs to make a buck, but charitable contributions are a great tax write off.

I also inquired about the limiting device, and their policy is simple. It is placed only if the customer is unwilling to divulge their need by refusing to provide proof of income, and even then it is not used during the winter months of December through March. I read the article that was posted here, and he expressed a great deal of surprise. As he stated, their policy is not unique, it is an industry standard for the most part. As a representive of a power company, he stated that really it was surprising that the power would be limited in such a cold climate at all, much less to a senior citizen.

While he did not admit any liability, I gathered from our phone conversation that such an act would be viewed as a "corporate irresponsilblity" as he put it.
He suggested that in most likely hood, an overzelous employee or employees where responsible for not properly administering their companies policy in regards to shutting off the old man.

 

[wood4heat]

Interesting how some folks will turn this sad story around into a rant against immigrants or a rant against big business.

If I read it correctly the utility is city owned in a town that has few hispanics, not some multinational in Arizona.

The point being made is that if it were a community of immigrants there would have likely been a program to provide assistance and the power would have never been shut off.

I am surprised they would allow anyones power to be shut off when weather conditions could be life threatening. It sounds irresponsible to say the least.

 

[ray benson]

Don't blame the company. The blame falls squarely on his friends, neighbors, relatives and the community.

 

[fletcher0780]

An 88 year old vet is no different than any other 88 year old citizen!

I agree with most of what you wrote, with the exception of the statement quoted above. If in fact the guy was a WWII vet he is, in my eyes anyway, different than another 88 year old citizen and deserves the respect and appreciation of the nation. While it is a very said situation, it is difficult to lay blame without know the entire story.

 

[Mister Twister]

I here a lot of good points here and they all point to this country is a mess period. I also think it will get much worse before it gets better if it ever does. Have you talked to the upcoming generation? Your children? The world has changed drastically since I grew up and it is not for the better I will assure you. It is a sad situation when you hear of a WWII Vet dying under those circumstances.

 

[avalancher]

An 88 year old vet is no different than any other 88 year old citizen!

Everybody feels sorry that this old fellow died, no doubt about it.

My conclusion is that the old fellow suffered from age related mental health issues and did not, or would not get help.

How many old people do you know who want to go in for regular mental health screenings? (It's a rhetorical question, because there aren't any!)

So how are we going to find these old people....and they don't have to be old to have mental health issues?

It's not the power companies responsibility to provide free service, IMO.

Nobody wants more government me included, but I do think the power company should give notice to someone from the state or county that can do a stop by and check up on these people before they are shut off.

It would be wild to find out the old man died with money to spare but was hoarding it away. I'm not suggesting he was.....but it wouldn't be the first time.

For all of those who think the power company is responsible...how many people have you checked up on? Would you volunteer for your local power company to go out and check up on these slow and no payers? .....and maybe coordinate getting financial aid? ......and to check that they really need financial aid?

I admit to having little interest in doing the footwork, yet I'm sorry this man froze to death unnecessarily.

I agree with you on many points. You can help those only willing to accept the help.You are right on with this point.

The old guy could have had sacks of money in his mattress, he could even own shares of Microsoft. You are right on with this point also.

But in my opinion,l believe that the power company should be held to a different standard. "with great power comes great responsiblity"
In a cold climate, the electric company holds the power to take a persons life,especially if they are elderly or in some ways not able to fend for themselves. To take away a vital utility before first finding out why the bill is not being paid is irresponsible. A quick visit could (in theory) quickly establish a lack of judgement on the part of the customer.
We see people all the time that have a need, and for one reason or another dont or wont ask for help. We have agencies to deal with that. A quick phone call to one of these agencies by the power company would have gotten the ball rolling, and possibly saved a life.

I know that you say that a 88 year old vet is no different than any other 88 year old, but your wrong there. A 88 year old vet has even more resources to tap! I promise you one thing, if the local power company had called the local VFW and mentioned that a WW11 vet was going to get his power shut off, a check would have been hand delivered that very same day.

After I returned from the first Gulf war, the VFW got me all kinds of help that I didnt even know about. Physically I was injured, and spirtually I was broken. They drove me to doctor appointments, checked up on me, and helped me fill out the forms to get me into school to learn a new trade. I dont believe for a moment that they would have let me freeze because I didnt have 1000 bucks.

I guess we can go on and on all day who is responsible, but the fact of the matter is this:

Anyone, no matter what walk of life you are on, has a responsiblity to get help for someone that is in need, esecially if you are the only one that knows the person needs help.
If you were out in the woods, and happened across someone stuck in the snow, just drive on by knowing that a storm was on the way?Leave the guy stranded, knowing that you are the only one on the mountain?Even if you couldnt pull him out, it certainly wouldnt be a big deal to call for help when you got to a phone.
If the power company was the only one that knew of his plight, they should have made some phone calls.
If he had family, then they share the responsibility.
If the neighbors knew, but did nothing, they share the responsibility.

I hope He11 has an especially warm corner for folks that dont want to take the time to help someone in need.
My wife has assured me that not only am I going to he11, I am driving the bus there. I will make sure to leave some room up front for those that forget their fellow man in need.

 

[Laird]

:agree2: :agree2: :agree2:
Outstanding posts avalancher throughout the whole thread. I tried to rep ya but I guess I've been rep-ing you too much already.

 

[Biker Dude]

Don't blame the company. The blame falls squarely on his friends, neighbors, relatives and the community.

I don't buy that at all.

Bay City Electric, Light & Power (BCELP) is a municipal utility, owned by the City of Bay City, Michigan.

BCELP website
This is a government owned utility and government has been telling people they can't take care of themselves for decades. This is exactly the kind of result that "government compassion" produces. The teachable moment here is this, compassion, charity, and community should be done by individuals for individuals, not by some nameless unaccountable bureaucrat. People have been conditioned to trust the government to take care of them so why should you expect them to watch out for their neighbor? The guy has no kids, nobody to speak for him, nobody to sue Bay City on his behalf. It's a sad commentary for sure but please don't blame insensitive neighbors for it when the government trained them to be that way.

 

[Ductape]

Interesting how some folks will turn this sad story around into a rant against immigrants or a rant against big business.

If I read it correctly the utility is city owned in a town that has few hispanics, not some multinational in Arizona.

Not immigrants....................... ILLEGAL immigrants, living off the taxpayers dime. ILLEGAL immigrants.......... see the difference??

 

[bump_r]

93 year old couldn't fend for himself, he should have been in a home. I suppose Piggly-Wiggly would be held liable had he starved to death?

 

[pickwood]

It is a city owned power co and the city manager stated the policies needed reviewed but he believed that they did no wrong-:censored: - this is a perfect example of what is wrong with the government and America today. I believe that the power company should never turn power off in the middle of winter- but in fairness where are the relatives and friends?

 

[Metals406]

OK, the big bad power company let this guy freeze to death? I don't think so. Doesn't the person who died have some responsibility here? If it was cold in his house, he could have gone to a neighbors house, restaurant, wal-mart...the list is endless. In my area there are utility assistance programs for the elderly and poverty stricken folks.

It seems to me that this guy committed suicide. Sad for sure, but since when did any for profit company have a responsibility to give away their product to anyone who can't afford it?

The guy was 93 years old!!! Maybe he wasn't all there upstairs!?? That's like saying "So what if he had Down Syndrome, he could have..."

The power company dropped the ball on this one.

 

[wood4heat]

It is a city owned power co and the city manager stated the policies needed reviewed but he believed that they did no wrong-:censored: - this is a perfect example of what is wrong with the government and America today. I believe that the power company should never turn power off in the middle of winter- but in fairness where are the relatives and friends?

The article said his wife had died and he had no kids. He was essentially alone. Sounds like his neighbor may have been checking up on him just a little too late.

 

[avalancher]

93 year old couldn't fend for himself, he should have been in a home. I suppose Piggly-Wiggly would be held liable had he starved to death?

You bet. IF
Piggly Wiggly was responsible for piping his food to him at his home.
If they discovered that he couldnt pay for his food anymore, and he had no other grocery stores that delivered in his area, then they just cut him off, then yep, they should be accountable if they made no effort to make a few phone calls on his behalf.

This whole discussion reminds me of the law enforced policies of local hospitals. By law they are now not allowed to turn folks away because they do not have the funds to pay for the services.
By law hostipals have to treat any life threatening illness or injury enough to stablize the patient.
Why should utilities that can have grave consquences if turned off be any less liable.
We have all heard the stories where hostpitals turned folks away because of the lack of funds to pay for the services and got sued for their efforts before the federal government enacted some laws pertaining to the health care industry.

A quick google search turned up countless stories where hosptals were cited for failure to comply with the federal laws.
Here is one
http://www.injuryboard.com/national...-refusing-emergency-care.aspx?googleid=242996

By the way,l am not entertaining or suggesting a lawsuit is called upon in the case of the old man. That is for wiser heads than mine to accertain.

 

[avalancher]

Discussing who deserves more and who deserves less to be saved from a freezing death seems a moot point.

Good point TreeCo, we all deserve to be saved from a freezing death.