Has this happened to you?

[M.Green - SVTS]

Hey Guys/Gals,

I signed a contract for a job, 500$ just to clean up a complete mess of fallen trees that occurred when Maine had a few ice storms this year. I was going to haul away the logs, chip the brush and remove everything.

I went to start the job yesterday and the homeowner said that she needed the fencing repaired that the tree's had fallen on. I said alright, and to be courteous I was going to do it for free if they bought the materials. She said, well all I have is a budget of 500$. I said alright, well then the cleanup that we had negotiated would be as extensive as I had promised as the materials were over 100$ to fix the wire fence. I had to cover that cost. She said fine.

So I chip all the brush up, get rid of that. Then I cut all the trees into 16" lengths and stacked them nicely. I then proceeded to fix the fence. She came out and she was happy and then came her husband.

My plan was to leave the logs, they gave a rustic look to the place and could have easily been sold with a small sign. He came out and was like you're going to take all that with you right. I mentioned that when we talked about the fence we both agreed that the cleanup wouldn't be as extensive.

He sort of stood there dumbfounded and to keep them happy I said I would come haul away the 3 cords of wood that was stacked perfectly and looked great. Of course he kept mentioning there was more work he wanted me to do after that and yada yada yada. Trying to get me to do as much work as possible thinking that he will call me to do more work. Which he may I am not sure.

Has anyone went to do a job after the estimate and plans were laid out and had the homeowner expect more from them? Is this a frequent thing I should look forward to happening. My business is new.

 

[tree md]

Happens to me all the time.

I just say that we will have to renegotiate the price. I never leave anything vague like "less extensive cleanup". I make sure that I give a price above and beyond what has already been negotiated and if they don't like it I just do what we have agreed upon. I only do repairs if I tear something up. I am not in the fence repair business but I have had to repair a section after I screwed up and tore one up onetime. I do trees not home repairs. If you want to do the repairs that's fine but I wouldn't be agreeing to do something that they say they don't have the money for.

 

[Grubs]

{customer hat on}

I am terrible for asking contractors to expand the job. Whenever I get a contractor on site I see how easily their expertise and experience gets the job done and suddenly I find all sorts of additional "just this little bit extra" jobs that I want them to do while they are on site.

However....

I also tell them to charge me whatever they feel is fair extra for the additional work and I dont argue. I figure that I approved the quote because their pricing was fair and they have a better idea than I do as to what the additional work is worth. Now they are on-site they are unlikely to gouge me.. and they never have.

I guess my point is that for the homeowner half of the hassle is just getting the contractor on site... so once they are there it is very *easy* to start asking for more work to be done so I expect you'll see this more and more.

The critical part for the contractor is how you deal with the request. Perhaps you could adjust your written quote and get the homeowner to sign it before you proceed... In my neck of the woods it would be more common to leave it at a verbal agreement.

 

[pdqdl]

Leaving logs is not "less extensive cleanup", it is a change in the scope of the job.

They were cheapskates, and you failed to cover your tail. It also sounds like they worked you like a team: Nice lady talks you down, big bad hubby comes in to enforce his version of the agreement. Keep 'em happy, and be ready next time.

Fence repair is not typically done by the tree service, although most of us have gotten pretty good at it "by accident". You should have left your bid alone, and quoted the fence repair separately.

I never change my quote, unless the customer will answer my question "What part of doing a good job do you want me to skip?". When you change your quote, you are admitting that you were willing to overcharge them, and you are agreeing that you have been caught.

I quote reasonably to begin with, and I only reduce the bid or add services if they are willing to change the scope or price of my bid to match. It's easier in the long run.

 

[randyg]

Everyone is different. . .

You will sort them out in time. Some will be glad you are there and more than willing to pay for your sevices. Others will be out to get as much work out of you for as little pay as possible and go to breakfast club and brag about the great deal.

I treat the jerks fairly, but thats it. For them changes go in writing, sometimes on a totally separate ticket, very detailed.

I will bend over backwards for the good customers, often looking to find a little extra (stack of branches they are saving to put out to the curb) and do not add for it. Those are the ones that call you back and say "just do the work, I don't need an estimate, I trust you". They will tell their friends as well and they will trust you too.

Before you know it, you will have a reputation for quality and trusted service and won't have time to cut trees for the jerks. They can scrounge for the hacks.

Good luck.

 

[Raymond]

Yep it usually comes from over religious people that give all their money to churches, expecting everyone to give them a break, or do it for free for that matter.

Oh! I'll probably be getting flamed for this one...

 

[371groundie]

won a bid on a houselot. all the trees to be removed had been painted. obviously cleared the building evelope and then feather out the edges.

once we got the building envelope flat we noticed that every morning when we got back there were more painted trees than when we left the night before. i understand how once you see it with the trees gone you might change your mind, but it was happening every night! worst part was that i would spend all day working carefully around a tree that was to be left. made very sure not to damage it as it was going to be in somones back yard. next day it has a paint mark on it.

ended up having a serious talk with the HO and explained the extra work involved working around the trees to be left and the frustration. ended up getting about 1.5x what i originally bid. now if the wood is painted i paint my own spot in the back side of the stump low enough it will still be visible when the tree is gone. then i can prove they changed things. hasnt happened since though. but well worth the $2 worth of spray paint

 

[familytreeman]

the customer who worked him

"What part of doing a good job do you want me to skip?"[/QUOTE]

i really like this line!

----------------
also, there is a difference between being a guy doing his work, and a businessman/salesman


some of us are both, but to those who possess one skill or the other, time to freshen up that subject so as not to repeat these kind of mistakes

 

[outofmytree]

Yes I get the "while you here" line regularly. You will come to recognise the warning signs with time and experience. The advice given so far has been sound and tallies with my own practise. I never say no outright. I pause as though considering the size of the work and ask them politely "how much extra do you think that job is worth?" Once they come up with a number I offer to do it for half. If they still push for it to be done free I tell them thanks for the oppurtunity but I can't fit that into my schedule.

 

[familytreeman]

?

Let me get this straight, you ask THEM what THEY think its worth , if this isnt bad enough, then you offer to do it for half of that?

1. Your customer only knows what they are willing to pay They dont have a clue as to what each job will cost until they get the professional est and compare cost
2. If you do ask someone what they think its worth, ,why would you offer to do it for half of this educated guess-timate?

 

[outofmytree]

Let me get this straight, you ask THEM what THEY think its worth , if this isnt bad enough, then you offer to do it for half of that?

1. Your customer only knows what they are willing to pay They dont have a clue as to what each job will cost until they get the professional est and compare cost
2. If you do ask someone what they think its worth, ,why would you offer to do it for half of this educated guess-timate?

We are talking about the "add on" job here. 9/10 times they want it done for free right? So then I ask them what price they think its worth, follow that part? Whatever price they give I tell them I will do it for half. So even if they said its worth a dollar I am 50c better off than saying "sure, I'll paint your house for free while I prune your 10ft tree". The idea is to have the customer believe they got a great deal even when they didn't. They are the amateurs, we are the professionals. Think about it.

 

[tree md]

I had one a couple of weeks ago where the customer (a 92 year old gentleman) Had agreed to taking down two large Pin Oaks and grinding the stumps for $4500. It was a competitive bid and the guy before me had said he would do it for 45 and leave the stumps; I said I would do it for that and include the stumps (large stumps). Well, I got on the job and the guy asked me how much for another Pin Oak in the front yard (about 2 1/2 dbh with no rigging) and I told him since I was already removing two I would do it for $1000. He looked a little dejected and said that the guy who I had competed with for the job had called and told him he would do the job for $750 less than I had bid. He asked if I would do the tree for $750. I told him that it was a lot of wood to move and a large stump to grind and I would do it for $850 and he was getting a steal. The gleam came back into his eyes and he told me to go for it. I love working for the old folks.

 

[outofmytree]

I had one a couple of weeks ago where the customer (a 92 year old gentleman) Had agreed to taking down two large Pin Oaks and grinding the stumps for $4500. It was a competitive bid and the guy before me had said he would do it for 45 and leave the stumps; I said I would do it for that and include the stumps (large stumps). Well, I got on the job and the guy asked me how much for another Pin Oak in the front yard (about 2 1/2 dbh with no rigging) and I told him since I was already removing two I would do it for $1000. He looked a little dejected and said that the guy who I had competed with for the job had called and told him he would do the job for $750 less than I had bid. He asked if I would do the tree for $750. I told him that it was a lot of wood to move and a large stump to grind and I would do it for $850 and he was getting a steal. The gleam came back into his eyes and he told me to go for it. I love working for the old folks.

No prize for guessing why he got to be 92!

 

[teamtree]

This is pretty common. I think it is a way for people to get as much out of you as possible. Like they say, you don't know until you ask. I usually do what I can and sometimes I do more without them mentioning it. However, you have to draw the line somewhere. When you write the estimate be as specific as possible and use as much detail as possible. When they ask you to do more tell them that was not included in the estimate and you would have to look at what the extra work would be and if there may be an additional charge.

 

[familytreeman]

common

Yes , I followed.

I just don't see the connection between asking them what it would be worth, then offering to do it for half.

If they thought 1$ was what it cost, then why not come in a little under , not by half.

Chances are , if someone is asking, they want it done, and you will get a fair add on price.

Be careful to avoid people who will get you to do for free/cheap, what should have otherwise been a cost to them and a profit to you/someone capable.

Thats all I was saying.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I have frequently made the offer to work within a persons budget. They say they have XYZ they want done, but only have so much for the budget. I will counter offer with XYAB if I can see something easy that can be done.

My client had a bargain budget job last week where they tried to chisel him a bit more on the back end when they were standing there, cash in hand.

We had even thrown a bit more in, them being retirees. The Mr. was trying to drop some small trees with a bow saw; I could see a barberschair smacking him in the face. I grabbed a chainsaw and dropped it for him. My client did some cutting while I was setting up...

 

[Rickytree]

Yep it usually comes from over religious people that give all their money to churches, expecting everyone to give them a break, or do it for free for that matter.

Oh! I'll probably be getting flamed for this one...

I hear ya! People are Strange, when your a stranger!

 

[tomtrees58]

yep all the time tom trees

 

[Rftreeman]

I do whats on the paper and anything else is added in to the cost.

keep doing extra work for free and you'll soon be labeld as a sucker and people will try it all the time.

 

[boltonranger]

What about an hourly upcharge? No Good?

I'm curious about the commercial side.
Have any of you ever said something like:
These already agreed on items will cost you X.

The additional items will be an add'l hourly rate.
Maybe adding "no more than this amount in total."

Just curious.
-br