2500 or 3500

[angelo c]

Guys,
I've decided I need a new(used- lets not get crazy) truck. I want a Diesel, prefer the duramax/allison over Cummins. Not crazy about Powerstroking so far. Question I have is I am seeing 3500's cheaper then 2500's and duallys cheaper then regular 3500's. What, other then a stiffer ride do you give up going to a 3500 from a 2500. Is it a maintenance thing where the upkeep on the bigger suspension or is it the lack of ability to take it to the 7/11 and park it up front. all my friends keep asking me what do you need a big truck like that for. I say what good is a little truck?

also is a dually that much different of a ride then a single?

thanks
Angelo

 

[cjcocn]

(subscribing)

Good question.

There was a 2002(?) Ford dually 4x4 for sale about 6 hours south of me. The asking price was about $12K and the truck was mint. In that range the 7.3 was under the hood so no concerns there.

I thought about buying it and selling my 2000 F250 4x4, but at the time didn't have enough use to justify it.

That truck is something that I still think about from time to time and I am curious to read the responses to your question.

 

[bore_pig]

I have been told that dually's aren't as good in the off road snow and mud. If you are going to get a diesel, don't screw around with a 3/4T.

 

[Dalmatian90]

Ok, to throw in my threadjack to this thread:

Why are all the 3/4 and 1 Ton pickups, at least in 4wd, so darn high?

I remember 20 years ago when our town highway foreman got a pickup that came with a 4" lift from the factory. Now it seems like all the heavier pickups are that way.

Makes me appreciate my Ranger bed that I can easily reach into.

(And to Angelo's question...if I was buying a full size, I'd buy a 1 Ton...just because firewood ways so darn much Before the Ranger and after the S-10 I had an F-150 and one thing I hated about it was I ran out of springs before bed...it really didn't carry anymore of a load of wood or gravel then my S-10 had.)

 

[jcappe]

In my opinion the best truck for a wood truck is a tonner single rear wheel gas engine. Unless you absolutely need a diesel for pulling a trailer I like the gas engines because they are cheaper, lighter and less maintenance. The duals for the most part don't get through mud and snow as good they are also obviously harder to maneuver in the woods and tight spots. If you do decide to go with powerstroke try to stay 2003 or older with the 7.3L Good luck with the search.

 

[cjcocn]

In my opinion the best truck for a wood truck is a tonner single rear wheel gas engine. Unless you absolutely need a diesel for pulling a trailer I like the gas engines because they are cheaper, lighter and less maintenance. The duals for the most part don't get through mud and snow as good they are also obviously harder to maneuver in the woods and tight spots. If you do decide to go with powerstroke try to stay 2003 or older with the 7.3L Good luck with the search.

yep, just be careful if you look at a 2003 - that's when they switched over to the 6.0 and only the early 2003 models had the 7.3

 

[msvold]

Diesel

I own both a 95 Dodge with Cummins and 07 Chevy with Duramax. I highly recommend the diesel option, maintenance costs are little bit higher, but long term reliability is well worth it. It's not fair to compare the two engines based on year difference, but I am extremely satisified with both. The 07 Duramax is obviously a much stronger Torque and HP motor, I believe you will be happy with the Duramax/allison combination.
Dual rear wheels increase the surface area to allow the load to spread out. Greater surface area allows for stability in towing and traction. The disadvantages to the dually are greater friction area reduces mpg and it is a wider truck so daily driving is a little more inconvenient. I believe the dually may be selling for less used due to lower demand and the inconvience.
The suspension in a one ton dually is the same as in a 1 ton single rear wheel, so the stiffness of the rides will be the same with the single rear wheel being a little more manueverable.
Go see it, test drive it and determine if you can pull into the 7/11 parking lot comfortably or not - then make your decision.

 

[Nuzzy]

Nothing wrong with fat butt trucks!

I'm on my second Dodge dually and will likely get another whenever new truck time rolls around. I drive through rural Michigan snow, and have towed my jeep over many snowy mountain passes without issue, nor chains. The rear *may* float a little more in snow, but has never slowed me. I like the added piece of mind when hauling heavy payloads and also like the fact that I don't have to fight the urge to lift and put bigger tires on like I would with a single


Stiffer schmiffer. It's a TRUCK! But those IFS Chevy's ride so damn smooth anyway, I don't think you'd be hurting with either.


And as for parking, typically the duals stick out about as far as the mirrors. So if you can fit your mirrors, you're truck is fine


And yes, they fit in the woods :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Steve NW WI]

In my opinion, I'd want a SRW 3500. Dually gives more GVW, but gives up a lot in maintenance costs, maneuverability, etc. I'd only be looking at a dually if the price was real good, or if I was doing a lot of towing with a 5th wheel.

I also agree with jcappe. Diesels have the "cool factor", but with DF costing the same or more than gas, and the higher maintenance costs, the payback time is long, if at all. I've driven a couple 6.0 Chevys, and there's plenty of power there for what 95% of people would use it for, and a lot less weight up front wearing out expensive suspension parts. Cousin gets 14-15mpg with his, '03 2500 4x4, normally on a 15 mile commute on country roads. That's better than my 88 with a 305 and half the power.

 

[Nuzzy]

And just FWIW since I know this debate always comes up...





















...I have yet to notice a higher maintenance cost in owning diesels. I've put the same money into my Cummins in the last 75,000 miles as I did my V-10 Dodge and my V8 Dodge before that. Same deal with our diesel Jetta. That's just my humble personal observations though opcorn:

 

[angelo c]

Well unless something goes incredibly wrong my offer was accepted on a 1 ton dually Cummins.( next time i'll try harder for the Duramax) I hope I find things to haul with it. I drove it already and its a monster.
Here's the thing for me so far. I've owned a Toyota pickup that was so stark it didn't have a cigarette lighter. No I don't smoke but I like the idea of having some amenities. I've had the Yota for 15 years. it gets maybe 15-17 MPG and I can barely fill it with firewood . this Cummins should get slightly better with the ability to pull my house full of firewood. Do I need it...no. But you only go around once.....and you might as well go BIG.
Thanks guys, I should have guessed that most of us would say 3500 as this gang is never happy with one of anything. I'm surprised no one suggested to get both...:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Steve NW WI]

Thanks guys, I should have guessed that most of us would say 3500 as this gang is never happy with one of anything. I'm surprised no one suggested to get both...:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

Congrats! And since you are already almost halfway there...:monkey:

 

[Ductape]

Good deal. Be sure to post us a few pics once its in the driveway. I've got a SRW 97 F350 and it definitely brings home the bacon (@ 20+ mpg). If I can load the axles properly, it'll legally haul 2 ton. Similar to yourself, I started hauling firewood with a small truck..... mine a Nissan. It was a good truck, but wasn't hardly a 'truck' in comparison to my F350. I wouldn't want to go back, even if i stopped scrounging firewood.

 

[themaddhatter]

Have an 03 diesel dodge dually crew cab, and here is my take:

Pros:

-Towing and hauling is much more stable (especially since I put 19.5" tires on it)
-Pulls anything I have ever thrown at it
-No engine issues (other than a water pump) with 140K on clock

Cons:

-Rides rough (has airbags so it will bump more on expansion joints
-While it fits in parking spaces, they seem to make them narrower and narrower every year. Sometimes it is a snug fit
-Can be a little tight in the woods
-Rear does float in winter, but a pile of cinder blocks helps that
-Tires are 1.5X more expensive (I bought 19.5 commercials that have 90K on them & need replacement now, but they replaced the factory 17" which were bald @ 50K)

Wash:

-Uses 2.5 gallons of oil each oil change & is more expensive, but I change at a longer drain interval
-Fuel more money (which is wierd, because it is less refined) but gets better MPG than eqiv. gasser
-Replaced clutch @ 120K, and was pricey, but would have had same with gas probably
-Plug in an hour before leaving in morning to start easier in winter, but it will do it on it's own, just not happy about it.

Potential costs:

-If you have engine issues, it is bigger $ for the parts. Fortunately you don't typically have problems for may more miles than a gasser

If I was going to get something that was primarily for getting & hauling wood, I would either have a std cab full box single wheel (length/width/turning radius limits), or have a crew cab 2 ton on the fire trail & bring wood out with ATV.

Or, if you really want a dedicated woods truck, get a M35A2 surplus duece and a half. That would be my ideal woods truck.

 

[mdavlee]

I like the diesel option in any brand as I've had all. 9 dodges, 1 ford, 1 chevy. The chevy was a dually and rode better than any of the other 3/4 tons. Madhatter doesn't yours hold 3 gallons of oil like all the rest of them?

 

[angelo c]

Have an 03 diesel dodge dually crew cab, and here is my take:

Pros:

-Towing and hauling is much more stable (especially since I put 19.5" tires on it)
-Pulls anything I have ever thrown at it
-No engine issues (other than a water pump) with 140K on clock

Cons:

-Rides rough (has airbags so it will bump more on expansion joints
-While it fits in parking spaces, they seem to make them narrower and narrower every year. Sometimes it is a snug fit
-Can be a little tight in the woods
-Rear does float in winter, but a pile of cinder blocks helps that
-Tires are 1.5X more expensive (I bought 19.5 commercials that have 90K on them & need replacement now, but they replaced the factory 17" which were bald @ 50K)

Wash:

-Uses 2.5 gallons of oil each oil change & is more expensive, but I change at a longer drain interval
-Fuel more money (which is wierd, because it is less refined) but gets better MPG than eqiv. gasser
-Replaced clutch @ 120K, and was pricey, but would have had same with gas probably
-Plug in an hour before leaving in morning to start easier in winter, but it will do it on it's own, just not happy about it.

Potential costs:

-If you have engine issues, it is bigger $ for the parts. Fortunately you don't typically have problems for may more miles than a gasser

If I was going to get something that was primarily for getting & hauling wood, I would either have a std cab full box single wheel (length/width/turning radius limits), or have a crew cab 2 ton on the fire trail & bring wood out with ATV.

Or, if you really want a dedicated woods truck, get a M35A2 surplus duece and a half. That would be my ideal woods truck.

Great Post Madhatter.
I'm not sure I follow the "airbags" comment. are they in addition to the suspension ? I can't imaging the weight needed to justify airbags on top of the 12k GVWR. You hauling Mercury around ?
Does the rear "float" in 4 wheel drive ? or just in rear wheel drive ?
I guess the best ATV made is the M35a2...now I can haul one to the wood pile
I'll post come pics once I get her home.

 

[1harlowr]

I have an "03 Cummins 3/4t. Get 20-21 mpg which is about 5 better than my last smaller gas truck. Oil changes are about twice as much, front ends on the Dodges are crap, and has too much power for snowy or even just wet roads. I only pull larges trailers 2-3 times a year. When I am getting another truck in a few years, it will still be a diesel.

 

[Geese]

This has given me a chance to look at all the pick up style trucks I have been exposed to over the years that I have driven and and have experieance with towing, maintenence, and general driving, total count 9 50/50 split on DRW and SRW. This doesnt include big trucks liek frieghtliner and such...

A few comments-

DRW can cause visibilty problems with some small trailers, specially in fine manuvering situations as sight lines are blocked form the mirror to the trailer

DRW does provides noticiable increased stability when hauling gooseneck/fifth wheel type loads especially above 10kips

REAR AXLE RATIO IS A KEY to towing capacity and gas mileage, there is ahuge difference between a 3.75 and a those greater than 4 in towing.

New emission standards have reduced some of the advantages of gas milage on new diesels. ex 1991 Dodge 3500 got 20+mpg 2008 Dodge 3500 gets no better than 14mpg from personal experience.


DRW slide more on ice and grease more on mud, less psi at tire contact has reduced friction during these type of conditions. DRW is advantageous in sand as it floats a bit more and provides a greater area for confinment of the sand reducing bury potential.

I have never had a time when I said "I wish this truck would haul or tow less." about higher GVWR rating trucks

DRW have never been a problem during nromal driving conditions, as mentioned earlier you mirrors extend approximatly the same.

The sharp bumpy ride of unloaded high GVWR tucks is no problem for skinny people but women or others with body parts that bounce (insert beer gut) can find this ride to be a bit taxing...

Geese

 

[Haywire Haywood]

front ends on the Dodges are crap

Dealer just replaced most of the front end on a buddy's Dodge 1500 yesterday... and he doesn't even use it as a truck. It's a shiny commute vehicle. The guys at work heckle him saying the only thing wrong with it is the hood emblem.

Ian

 

[Baldman]

Congrats on the new truck! Post pics ASAP!