alleyyooper
Addicted to ArboristSite
How strong of wind before you stop felling trees?
Al
Al
wind
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zogger
Tree Freak
Depends on the situation
Really depends on the tree and whether or not there is a pronounced lean, or it is dead or if it has a lot of widowmakers hung up in it or nearby.
Lot of widowmakers..nice time to go work in the shop or cut on the ground. Steady wind going my way on a big tree that is intact, I'll cut. Weird windy day where it keeps changing direction with gusts, etc..ground work.
You get a tee rocking back and forth, you'll pinch trying to get a good face cut, not worth it, or the reverse, starting on your back cut that sucker could go 180 on you and you get smashed..not worth it.
How strong of wind before you stop felling trees?
Really depends on the tree and whether or not there is a pronounced lean, or it is dead or if it has a lot of widowmakers hung up in it or nearby.
Lot of widowmakers..nice time to go work in the shop or cut on the ground. Steady wind going my way on a big tree that is intact, I'll cut. Weird windy day where it keeps changing direction with gusts, etc..ground work.
You get a tee rocking back and forth, you'll pinch trying to get a good face cut, not worth it, or the reverse, starting on your back cut that sucker could go 180 on you and you get smashed..not worth it.
Yep. for me it depends on if it is workign for me or against me. I will pass on a tree with a slight breeze against me if I haven't got some good lean or top weight working with me. I will alos wait for a day with the wind in the right direction to fall a 'problematic tree'.
Harry K
Dalmatian90
Addicted to ArboristSite
More then speed (not that I go out in bad winds except to clear trees from roads during major storms with the fire company sometimes)...
it's the predictability that I worry about.
If the breeze is stiff but steady that's one thing.
When it's gusting up suddenly, or it's coming from one direction then another, that's when I won't consider it.
I have had yard trees I've deliberately waited till I had a cooperative wind to help encourage them in the direction I wanted. Can't be so much that the tree is swinging back-n-forth either though.
Usually if I really want to drop some trees and wind is predicted, I'll get myself out just past dawn in the still of the morning and drop them. Even if I have to then go wake up, eat breakfast, SSS, and generally putz till my muscles warm up enough to deal with topping and blocking what I dropped when I first got up. 'bout the only other chore that'll get me up at the crack of dawn is when I have herbicide to spray, I like doing that when the air is dead calm too.
it's the predictability that I worry about.
If the breeze is stiff but steady that's one thing.
When it's gusting up suddenly, or it's coming from one direction then another, that's when I won't consider it.
I have had yard trees I've deliberately waited till I had a cooperative wind to help encourage them in the direction I wanted. Can't be so much that the tree is swinging back-n-forth either though.
Usually if I really want to drop some trees and wind is predicted, I'll get myself out just past dawn in the still of the morning and drop them. Even if I have to then go wake up, eat breakfast, SSS, and generally putz till my muscles warm up enough to deal with topping and blocking what I dropped when I first got up. 'bout the only other chore that'll get me up at the crack of dawn is when I have herbicide to spray, I like doing that when the air is dead calm too.
Cut down on ya beans n ham intake, you just may lessen the side effects.:wink2:
I'll fell in any wind, as long as the direction is to my advantage... depth of face-cut is the key.
Depth of face-cut is key to being able to fall in any wind? Tell us more.
The biggest danger when felling in strong wind is a "barber-chair" event. Now, I'm talking about felling in the same direction the wind is blowing, and out here on the plains 25-35 MPH winds with gusts to 50 are not all that uncommon... we had three straight days of 30+ MPH winds last week. I've experienced a "barber-chair" twice, once in strong wind, the other from a hard leaner... both extremely scary experiences. An old farmer/woodcutter told me to use a shallow face-cut, like 1/4 diameter or a bit less, and then cut a small chunk from each side to reduce the width of the hinge (sort'a like making a small face-cut on each side of the face-cut). Seems to work, never had anything close to a "barber-chair" since... works in the wind, with hard leaners or trees with tension on them.
spidermonkey17
ArboristSite Operative
really depends on the situation, i have the advantage of being a tree climber by trade, but even that i draw the line at a certain wind speed. Turned down a white pine that was about 100' that needed to come down and called my boss and said i would do it i just would prefer a different day to do it, (wold have been fun for the ride of being that high up, but that thing was rolling back and forth pretty good when the gust came through , just to many things could go wrong.
Depth of the face cut is correct, you never go any more than a 1/3 in to the tree and the angles need to be correct in both the downward cut and straight cut on the face cut otherwise you risk the chance of having the tree with more holding wood on one side. The way we get around this many times is to make two relief cuts on either side of the tree so there is no holding wood on either side this helps the tree from barber chairing and also from spinning on itself. Biggest thing is make sure your face cut is in the direction you want to go and you have enough fall to get it down on the ground and not hung up in the tree's around you. With the wind its all about how comfortable you feel and if its worth it or just come back another day. Just rember wear those chaps and wear that hard hat, you never know what could happen.
Depth of the face cut is correct, you never go any more than a 1/3 in to the tree and the angles need to be correct in both the downward cut and straight cut on the face cut otherwise you risk the chance of having the tree with more holding wood on one side. The way we get around this many times is to make two relief cuts on either side of the tree so there is no holding wood on either side this helps the tree from barber chairing and also from spinning on itself. Biggest thing is make sure your face cut is in the direction you want to go and you have enough fall to get it down on the ground and not hung up in the tree's around you. With the wind its all about how comfortable you feel and if its worth it or just come back another day. Just rember wear those chaps and wear that hard hat, you never know what could happen.
stihl in ky
ArboristSite Member
Here in Ky there are enough hills to usually break up a wind. Yes we do get occasional 25+ mph winds but they are few and far in between. The only time I really have to cut in the wind is when we get a storm and trees are down on the road. I work for the state hwy dept. and am the "official tree cutter" since I'm the only one who cuts wood on the crew so I get all the fun jobs. Gets a little hairy cutting in the rain or during an ice storm. especially on the side of a bank.:msp_w00t:
I highly recommend the "Coos Bay" cut for any potential barber chairs, whether due to wind/ice/snow load or lean. I used it yesterday on a heavy leaner, and it worked like a charm.
Similar to what whitespider and spidermonkey describe, you do a slightly shallow face cut (1), maybe 20% diameter. Then come in from each side (2,3) about 30% diameter, using the attack zone of the tip and lower bar, but still leaving a complete side to side hinge. When done, this leaves a "T" of wood, composed of the hinge and a strap, like this:
If the tree is large enough, you can insert wedges following cuts (2) and (3) to stabilize the tree side to side.
To finish, just nibble away at the strap (4).
I used this on a 45 degree leaner yesterday, a Boxelder (aka Ash Maple). The tree was only about 15" diameter at the base, so I did not wedge it after the side cuts. Once I started nibbling away at the strap and got to the hinge, the rootball and tree gently parted ways, with the rootball going back completely into its socket and the tree coming down on the ground. Since I was standing on the rootball, I rode it down, which was interesting. It actually had part of a brick seawall attached to it, alongside a creek! Wish I made a movie of that one.
There is another variation on the Coos Bay cut, which replaces the "T" with a triangle, but I haven't tried that one myself. In both cases, it seems like a simpler cut than boring a leaner. Certainly on smaller trees, the Coos Bay would work better if there isn't enough wood to properly bore.
A final note, since the topic is wind -- it can do unpredictable things, so all bets are off. Even the most technical, best controlled cuts can go wrong. I think it's important to be conservative when the wind is blowing.
Similar to what whitespider and spidermonkey describe, you do a slightly shallow face cut (1), maybe 20% diameter. Then come in from each side (2,3) about 30% diameter, using the attack zone of the tip and lower bar, but still leaving a complete side to side hinge. When done, this leaves a "T" of wood, composed of the hinge and a strap, like this:
If the tree is large enough, you can insert wedges following cuts (2) and (3) to stabilize the tree side to side.
To finish, just nibble away at the strap (4).
I used this on a 45 degree leaner yesterday, a Boxelder (aka Ash Maple). The tree was only about 15" diameter at the base, so I did not wedge it after the side cuts. Once I started nibbling away at the strap and got to the hinge, the rootball and tree gently parted ways, with the rootball going back completely into its socket and the tree coming down on the ground. Since I was standing on the rootball, I rode it down, which was interesting. It actually had part of a brick seawall attached to it, alongside a creek! Wish I made a movie of that one.
There is another variation on the Coos Bay cut, which replaces the "T" with a triangle, but I haven't tried that one myself. In both cases, it seems like a simpler cut than boring a leaner. Certainly on smaller trees, the Coos Bay would work better if there isn't enough wood to properly bore.
A final note, since the topic is wind -- it can do unpredictable things, so all bets are off. Even the most technical, best controlled cuts can go wrong. I think it's important to be conservative when the wind is blowing.
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alleyyooper
Addicted to ArboristSite
Has been really windy here of late. Can't say we every have a wind over 10 MPH that is steady and even. It tends to gust and the land scape and trees tend to cause it to swearl. does the same thing during hunting season.
Al
AlI'd agree the Coos Bay cut (both variations) comes in handy, but felling in those kind of numbers is beyond anything comfortable for me..
But then again maybe it's just my old age showing.
Another thing to think about when you're cutting in windy conditions...a barber chair that doesn't kick straight back but slabs off at an angle. When they happen they happen in a split second. If it slabs toward you, you're toast. If it slabs away from you the top end can tear loose and come straight down on you.
There can be defects inside the tree that are impossible to read from the outside. The tree is moving more than you think in the wind and the movement stresses the defects. A barber chair doesn't always make a simple break either, sometimes they'll shatter in more than one place or break the top out of the tree and send it down toward you. Unless you happen to be looking up when a top breaks out you won't know what hit you. They fall almost silently.
Wedges and fancy cuts can help narrow the margin of error...they're good tools. But they won't save you if a big gust hits at the wrong angle, the hinge tears, and the tree goes sideways or backwards at you.
http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/182831.htm There's some good information in this thread from people who fall timber every day.
You guys that aren't cutting for a living have nothing to prove. You won't get fired if you leave the tree for another day and your reputation won't suffer. You don't need to cut in windy conditions. But...if your balls are bigger than your brain and if you feel the need to validate your manhood by doing something incredibly stupid so you can brag about it later, go ahead and take a chance. The tree doesn't care if it kills you or not.
There can be defects inside the tree that are impossible to read from the outside. The tree is moving more than you think in the wind and the movement stresses the defects. A barber chair doesn't always make a simple break either, sometimes they'll shatter in more than one place or break the top out of the tree and send it down toward you. Unless you happen to be looking up when a top breaks out you won't know what hit you. They fall almost silently.
Wedges and fancy cuts can help narrow the margin of error...they're good tools. But they won't save you if a big gust hits at the wrong angle, the hinge tears, and the tree goes sideways or backwards at you.
http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/182831.htm There's some good information in this thread from people who fall timber every day.
You guys that aren't cutting for a living have nothing to prove. You won't get fired if you leave the tree for another day and your reputation won't suffer. You don't need to cut in windy conditions. But...if your balls are bigger than your brain and if you feel the need to validate your manhood by doing something incredibly stupid so you can brag about it later, go ahead and take a chance. The tree doesn't care if it kills you or not.
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^^^^^ that post right there is well stated.
Something in there about common sense and good judgement.
Something in there about common sense and good judgement.
Depends,
If you have worked all summer with hardly a free day, and it feels right you just turn around and head back in and tell them " ohh there was limbs blowin out and hitten the windshield and I think I seen a couple of tops come down, looked like it was starting to pick up so we got out of there while the gettin was good"
But then if its spring time and you havent worked all winter it might actually be those conditions when you are leaving the crummy.
Have you heard Craig and Terrys I think its Gonna Blow.
If you have worked all summer with hardly a free day, and it feels right you just turn around and head back in and tell them " ohh there was limbs blowin out and hitten the windshield and I think I seen a couple of tops come down, looked like it was starting to pick up so we got out of there while the gettin was good"
But then if its spring time and you havent worked all winter it might actually be those conditions when you are leaving the crummy.
Have you heard Craig and Terrys I think its Gonna Blow.
LOL...you got it right about the time of year.
Are Craig and Terry making music again? Those guys knew the score.
Naw, its an old tape The Snag Fallers Ball I was going to listen to it but my cassette player is Broke.
litefoot
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm not a professional faller, just a firewood guy that drops most of the trees he hauls...but as a professional in the communications industry who often climbs towers, I can tell you there can be a significant increase in wind speeds as little as 40-50 feet off the ground. What's happening where you are may be VERY different than what's going on up there. Be careful.
