Elm this, and Elm that...

[Whitespider]

OK, these elm threads are driving me berserk…
Some just have a hard time identifying the different elm species.

I guess it’s understandable, given there are so many and the differences aren’t all that great. Add in all the imported breeds and… well… confusion. If you live east of the Great Lakes DED near wiped them out years ago and the chances of finding native species becomes slim… but not impossible. But if you live west of the Mississippi River you’ll find most of the native elms still alive in many areas. The river acted as a natural barrier, slowing the advancement of the disease and we have lots of native elm… and tons, and tons of still standing-dead. I cross the river into often for work, and also to visit some friends that live in central Illinois… the differences between the west and east banks are stark if you know what you’re looking for.

First I’d like to give y’all a fool-proof way of identifying American Elm. Simply tear off a piece of bark and break it. American Elm is the only elm that will have alternating layers of dark and creamy-white bark. If it does have the creamy-white layers it flat is American Elm… If it ain’t got the creamy-white layers it is some other elm… … and that is a simple fact!!! Check-out the next three pictures…

This pic has three pieces of American Elm on the left and two pieces of Slippery (Red) Elm on the right.
All five pieces of bark are from five different trees in my woodlot.

This pic clearly shows the creamy-white layers in the American Elm bark.

And this is Slippery (Red) Elm bark.

Ok, now for the wood… Both American Elm and Slippery Elm are consistent in color from outside to core. THERE IS NO CHANGE IN COLOR ONCE THE WOOD SURFACES HAVE HAD A DAY OR SO TO DRY!!! If your elm has a dark center it is not American Elm or Slippery Elm… most likely it is Siberian Elm. Rock Elm will have a change in color about at about the 1/3 from the outside point, and it will be very heavy, dense wood.

Here are two pics… American Elm on the left, Slippery (Red) Elm on the right. American Elm has white to slightly off-white wood. Slippery (Red) Elm will vary (depending on the tree) from off-white, to a flesh tone, to a brownish-reddish color… more of a tint than a brilliant color.

 

[KsWoodsMan]

Whiie you are talking the time for this could you also include Siberian Elm, Cedar Elm and Chinese Elm in your identification process.

I do get a laugh when i hear Cedar Elm or Siberian Elm misidentified as Chinese (Lacebark) Elm and Piss Elm.

 

[One Shot Will]

This is one of the best put together slide show i have seen on Elm.
We have a lot of american elm on our streets but it is going away, and soon will be all gone.
Thank you for showing the differences.

 

[ks_osage_orange]

Good thread, show us Siberian elm also. It seems to be the most common (around NE Kansas anyway.) I have always used winter buds to ID elms.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Spiral Grain Elm?

I could take Pics of the "unsplittable" spiral grain elm I have encountered recently. This stuff is awful and nobody can identify it, except that it is an elm variety of some sort.

Red elm and American elm both split beautifully when dried in the round a few months and the bark starts falling off. The spiral grain elm is almost impossible to process, regardless of dryness, bark or no bark. What on Earth is it? Siberian?

 

[Whitespider]

Whiie you are talking the time for this could you also include Siberian Elm, Cedar Elm and Chinese Elm in your identification process.

I don't have any Siberian Elm in my woodlot, and it is hard to distinguish from the American Elm until it is cut and split. Siberian elm often has a dark center and is extremely stingy and wet, but depending on growing conditions and habitat any elm can be extremely stingy and wet. I use the leaf to ID Siberian Elm... it has smaller leaves than most other elm. Leaves will generally be in the 1 3/4 to 2 3/4 inch long range and a bit more delicate than American or Slippery Elm. I won't cut Siberian Elm for firewood, lousy stuff... but I will cut it just to kill it. Most Siberian Elm will be found growing in fence rows around here, sometimes in yards and parks.

Cedar Elm does not grow this far north. I have only seen Cedar once... in Texas.

Chinese Elm will almost never be found growing in-the-"wild". It is exclusively planted as an ornamental in yards and parks. A smaller tree, easily identified by its very unique (among elms) bark...

 

[1project2many]

Until I started trying to ID a few specific trees in my woodshed, I had no idea there were so many different "Elms" to choose from. As someone who often gets "free wood" I don't always get to see the tree complete, or alive. This spring I found some Elm which I identified as Siberian Elm with the help of Gurgle Images, Whitespider, and a few others.

Characteristics: Extremely wet when arrived and stayed wet most of the summer. Splits easily using hydraulic splitter when wet or dry, often no need to push the round completely across the knife. Beautiful reddish brown color inside when wet, color fades significantly when dry. Some stringiness apparent when dry but very little when wet. Bark is gray, thick, with deep furrows. Doesn't pull off logs easily until log starts to dry some. Possibly lighter than Poplar / Cottonwood when dried. Not much popping or sparking when burned, but not a lot of heat, either.

 

[AIM]

I'm sorry to hear that people are driving you berserk. Maybe someday our knowledge will equal that of yours and you can be at peace.

 

[scotvl]

I'm sorry to hear that people are driving you berserk. Maybe someday our knowledge will equal that of yours and you can be at peace.

I don't think Spider is trying to be an ass, different types of elm are very hard for many of us to tell apart:bang:

 

[AIM]

I don't think he is trying to be an ass.

 

[scotvl]

I don't think he is trying to be an ass.

sorry for the misunderstanding:redface:

 

[AIM]

sorry for the misunderstanding:redface:

There is no misunderstanding. I'll apologize for being a bit cryptic in my posts. Spidey has a way of posting that just makes me want to poke at him on occasion. Tone of voice is very hard to convey on the net.

 

[KsWoodsMan]

I don't have any Siberian Elm in my woodlot, and it is hard to distinguish from the American Elm until it is cut and split. Siberian elm often has a dark center and is extremely stingy and wet, but depending on growing conditions and habitat any elm can be extremely stingy and wet. I use the leaf to ID Siberian Elm... it has smaller leaves than most other elm. Leaves will generally be in the 1 3/4 to 2 3/4 inch long range and a bit more delicate than American or Slippery Elm. I won't cut Siberian Elm for firewood, lousy stuff... but I will cut it just to kill it. Most Siberian Elm will be found growing in fence rows around here, sometimes in yards and parks.

Cedar Elm does not grow this far north. I have only seen Cedar once... in Texas.

Chinese Elm will almost never be found growing in-the-"wild". It is exclusively planted as an ornamental in yards and parks. A smaller tree, easily identified by its very unique (among elms) bark...

YIP ! that's Chinese Elm but every other Elm here seems to get labeled Chinese or piss, which it isn't. Well , piss elm takes in a lot of them.

Good thread BTW Rep sent

Edit:
Ooops tried to rep ya , I gotta spread some more around first.

 

[Locust Cutter]

I have been educated! So it's Siberian Elm that I loathe and detest....:mad2::angry2::msp_thumbdn:

 

[Wood Doctor]

I have been educated! So it's Siberian Elm that I loathe and detest....:mad2::angry2::msp_thumbdn:

I'm starting to think that's also what I ran into. Spiral grain all the way to the outside bark. Also, if you look on the end of a round, there is no straight-across check up. As it checks up, it seems to form concentric circlles. Splitting near an outer edge (say 2" to 3" in from the bark) reveals the spiral as you tear off a chunk from the side.

This stuff is miserable but should work well in a bonfire. :msp_wink:

 

[Whitespider]

There is no misunderstanding. I'll apologize for being a bit cryptic in my posts. Spidey has a way of posting that just makes me want to poke at him on occasion. Tone of voice is very hard to convey on the net.

No apology necessary... I knew what ya' was "poking" at. :msp_biggrin:

 

[1project2many]

As it checks up, it seems to form concentric circlles.

The SE I have here is doing this also.

 

[AIM]

YIP ! that's Chinese Elm but every other Elm here seems to get labeled Chinese or piss, which it isn't. Well , piss elm takes in a lot of them.

We call American elm, piss elm. Quite often it will have urine colored stains in the cut ends. I have mostly American and red around me. I honestly can't say that I have cut siberian or chinese.

 

[Whitespider]

YIP ! that's Chinese Elm but every other Elm here seems to get labeled Chinese or piss, which it isn't. Well , piss elm takes in a lot of them.

The nickname of piss elm is a derogatory term that seems to get placed on just about any type of elm, depending on region or local custom. Around here it is often applied to young, small diameter elm that have lots of water in them when cut. I here the term piss elm quite often in the spring/early summer when the ground is wet and the trees are "waking-up" from winter sleep. The thing is that as summer, and dryer weather progresses those same trees won't have near the water in them and the term will die-out until the next spring. Sometimes those young, wet trees will have an odor (described as cat pee) which seems to support the nickname... although, I personally have never thought it smelled like cat urine, and never use the nickname because it does nothing to identify the elm species.

There is one elm that grows in the south, east of Texas, that (from what I've read) has a strong urine-like odor that can be smelled even without cutting... a position down wind from a stand can be a bit offensive. It is the Winged Elm (or Wahoo), a small tree considered a nuisance in many areas because it will "pop-up" in cleared areas and is difficult to get rid of. It is believed that this is the "original" piss elm... and that makes the most sense. Actually we have a few Winged Elm in extreme southeast Iowa along the Mississippi... I've seen it a couple of times but never noticed any odor (that I remember). A strange looking tree that has funky "wing-like" things growing on it... almost resembling some sort of mushroom or fungus.

 

[3fordasho]

I don't have any Siberian Elm in my woodlot, and it is hard to distinguish from the American Elm until it is cut and split. Siberian elm often has a dark center and is extremely stingy and wet, but depending on growing conditions and habitat any elm can be extremely stingy and wet. I use the leaf to ID Siberian Elm... it has smaller leaves than most other elm. Leaves will generally be in the 1 3/4 to 2 3/4 inch long range and a bit more delicate than American or Slippery Elm. I won't cut Siberian Elm for firewood, lousy stuff... but I will cut it just to kill it. Most Siberian Elm will be found growing in fence rows around here, sometimes in yards and parks.

Leaf size is the easy way to ID siberian elm. The leaves are only 1/3 to 1/4 the size of other elms. Firewood btu charts rate it the same as american elm. I hope it has some value as firewood as I've got quite a bit at the property I'm cutting. I do admit to leaving anything under 6-8" diameter as the small stuff just isn't worth it. One thing I've noticed is the bark makes a lot of ash. Good thing on alot of the trees the bark falls off as you spit it. Maybe it would be better for campfire wood?