My woods aren't really healthy-I think one of solutions is some deliberate thinning

[quahog]

So this is going to be a lifelong project, but I figure I would get some input as to whether my idea is right/wrong.

I guess if this were a poll I would have two questions.
1. Yes dummy, thin it.
2. No dummy, let nature be nature.

I have a pretty typical ~40 acre lot in northern NH where I'm having a house built. It was cleared ages ago for farming, regrew, then was selectively logged about 20 years ago. The result is dense stands, thin, and often dying trees throughout the lot. Wildfire isn't a concern, it is helping the fittest trees stay healthy so some can eventually feed my woodstove.

There is a pretty diverse mix of species. At least a couple white pines are still standing, some firs/spruce, and something that looks like a fir but has longer needles, some red oak, a couple maple species, a couple of birch species, poplar, ash, crabapples, and a tiny bit of beech which I would love to expand. I suck at tree ID and that is something I need to get better at. With the exception of the white pines, most of the evergreens are in their own nice dry stands.

While I'm limited in equipment and living an hour away, I plan on working the stuff near the house build for now. Basically identifying some desirable trees from various species and giving them some breathing room.

This is a pretty typical area in the middle of the woods. All thin trees which shoot up trying to catch the sun, then fall over and die. The moss is an indicator of something I can't do anything about-the lot isn't wet, but there is a lot of water for a long time every year. This results in thin root systems and occasionally root systems rotting out. It's not bad in this pic, but you'll see it on the base of trees in others.


This is an overhead shot from October 2022. Lots of trees. House is to the right of the excavator:


Other pics:
Same place in three different directions. This is near the house and I have done some brushcutting to clean up.



Four pics from same place, but different directions. On one of the trails.


At the pic limit, so only one pic. This is a more open area, but in the third pic you can see the birches leaning over. This happens with all the hardwoods throughout the property.

 

[esean]

Doing nothing is not "letting nature be nature." In the last 200 yrs we've eliminated elk, bison, passenger pigeons, wolves and cougars from the eastern forests. FIres are no longer allowed to spread naturally. We've brought in numerous invasive species that are crowding out native plants. The forest is not functioning even remotely like it had been prior to the arrival of European immigrants. Its up to you to thin trees and do other alterations to substitute for the missing natural processes. Have a state forester evaluate your woods to develop a plan of action. Sermon over.

 

[Raintree]

What I've done with my wooded acreage, removed all the invasives and let nature take care of the rest.

 

[VT Hillbilly]

What esean said. I live in Northeaster corner of VT,so,we are kind of "neighbors". Invasive species ......get rid of 'em. Get a NH Forester in there and do a walk through. With diligence, and a plan,you will have a lifelong,enjoyable project with your land,and turn it into something closer to your vision.

 

[Bill G]

Doing nothing is not "letting nature be nature." In the last 200 yrs we've eliminated elk, bison, passenger pigeons, wolves and cougars from the eastern forests. FIres are no longer allowed to spread naturally. We've brought in numerous invasive species that are crowding out native plants. The forest is not functioning even remotely like it had been prior to the arrival of European immigrants. Its up to you to thin trees and do other alterations to substitute for the missing natural processes. Have a state forester evaluate your woods to develop a plan of action. Sermon over.

What was the effect of eliminating wolves and cougars?

 

[ChuckMI]

What was the effect of eliminating wolves and cougars?

Wolves and cougars were apex predators of the deer. With them gone, deer numbers need to be kept down another way to prevent excess browsing.

 

[Mad Professor]

Wolves and cougars were apex predators of the deer. With them gone, deer numbers need to be kept down another way to prevent excess browsing.

Ummmm.....venison.

 

[Mad Professor]

So this is going to be a lifelong project, but I figure I would get some input as to whether my idea is right/wrong.

I guess if this were a poll I would have two questions.
1. Yes dummy, thin it.
2. No dummy, let nature be nature.

I have a pretty typical ~40 acre lot in northern NH where I'm having a house built. It was cleared ages ago for farming, regrew, then was selectively logged about 20 years ago. The result is dense stands, thin, and often dying trees throughout the lot. Wildfire isn't a concern, it is helping the fittest trees stay healthy so some can eventually feed my woodstove.

There is a pretty diverse mix of species. At least a couple white pines are still standing, some firs/spruce, and something that looks like a fir but has longer needles, some red oak, a couple maple species, a couple of birch species, poplar, ash, crabapples, and a tiny bit of beech which I would love to expand. I suck at tree ID and that is something I need to get better at. With the exception of the white pines, most of the evergreens are in their own nice dry stands.

While I'm limited in equipment and living an hour away, I plan on working the stuff near the house build for now. Basically identifying some desirable trees from various species and giving them some breathing room.

This is a pretty typical area in the middle of the woods. All thin trees which shoot up trying to catch the sun, then fall over and die. The moss is an indicator of something I can't do anything about-the lot isn't wet, but there is a lot of water for a long time every year. This results in thin root systems and occasionally root systems rotting out. It's not bad in this pic, but you'll see it on the base of trees in others.
View attachment 1083965

This is an overhead shot from October 2022. Lots of trees. House is to the right of the excavator:
View attachment 1083964

Other pics:
Same place in three different directions. This is near the house and I have done some brushcutting to clean up.
View attachment 1083970View attachment 1083971View attachment 1083972


Four pics from same place, but different directions. On one of the trails.
View attachment 1083977View attachment 1083978View attachment 1083979View attachment 1083980

At the pic limit, so only one pic. This is a more open area, but in the third pic you can see the birches leaning over. This happens with all the hardwoods throughout the property.
View attachment 1083983

Consider a forest management plan. The USDA and many states will provide funding to have one written. Usually ~$1000. Find a licensed forester in your area to do a survey, discuss your goals, and write the plan.

Here is lots of good reading about silviculture to get you started

 

[Bill G]

Wolves and cougars were apex predators of the deer. With them gone, deer numbers need to be kept down another way to prevent excess browsing.

Yes it is called properly controlled hunting and properly controlled hunting allows other wildlife species to stay in check unlike the proliferation of predators such coyotes, wolves, and cougars. The problem is many states have no idea what properly controlled hunting is. I will gladly discuss and respectfully debate this with anyone.

 

[Seachaser]

Our state has a forestry division that gives free advice. But, there are only so much nutrients in an acre of dirt. Depending on the tree, they need room to grow. Pine trees need to be thinned every fifteen years or so. Mature pecan trees need to be forty to eighty feet from each other and so forth.

 

[ericm979]

Doing nothing is not "letting nature be nature." In the last 200 yrs we've eliminated elk, bison, passenger pigeons, wolves and cougars from the eastern forests. FIres are no longer allowed to spread naturally. We've brought in numerous invasive species that are crowding out native plants. The forest is not functioning even remotely like it had been prior to the arrival of European immigrants. Its up to you to thin trees and do other alterations to substitute for the missing natural processes. Have a state forester evaluate your woods to develop a plan of action. Sermon over.

Yep.

Also in pre-Columbian times, native peoples did a lot of active forest management, usually with fire. The "natural" forests with big widely spaced trees that the pilgrims saw were not natural.

In many states you can get free forestry advice from the state and in some you may be able to get grants or other assistance to improve your wood lot.


Those woods look over stocked to me but all my experience is with western forests. Its common for post fire or clear cut land to get over stocked with more stems/acre than you want for either maximum production or forest health.

 

[quahog]

I appreciate the input folks! Mad Professor, I'm currently reading through those. Thanks.

Whether it costs money or not, getting a forester out on the land and helping me develop a management plan/identifying invasives has been on my to do list, but likely won't happen until late this year at the earliest.

UNH has a lot of good resources on their site as well as a good directory of county foresters and I see they finally got a Coös County forester on there, so that's good.

https://extension.unh.edu/natural-resources/forests-trees

In many states you can get free forestry advice from the state and in some you may be able to get grants or other assistance to improve your wood lot.

Those woods look over stocked to me but all my experience is with western forests. Its common for post fire or clear cut land to get over stocked with more stems/acre than you want for either maximum production or forest health.

I'm certainly willing to pay. I think my end goal is to leave the place healthier than when I bought it and also enjoy some firewood.

I do think that is what is happening-after it was logged, it got overstocked and the trees are fighting each other with none of them winning.

**************

On the predator topic, I just had a young coyote trot through the yard. 30 seconds later a hen turkey strolled up. Rookie 'yote has a lot to learn if he's missing that hen.

 

[Bill G]

......................On the predator topic, I just had a young coyote trot through the yard. 30 seconds later a hen turkey strolled up. Rookie 'yote has a lot to learn if he's missing that hen.

I have never known a coyote to be much of a threat to a Turkey unless maybe really young

 

[Captain Bruce]

So this is going to be a lifelong project, but I figure I would get some input as to whether my idea is right/wrong.

I guess if this were a poll I would have two questions.
1. Yes dummy, thin it.
2. No dummy, let nature be nature.

I have a pretty typical ~40 acre lot in northern NH where I'm having a house built. It was cleared ages ago for farming, regrew, then was selectively logged about 20 years ago. The result is dense stands, thin, and often dying trees throughout the lot. Wildfire isn't a concern, it is helping the fittest trees stay healthy so some can eventually feed my woodstove.

There is a pretty diverse mix of species. At least a couple white pines are still standing, some firs/spruce, and something that looks like a fir but has longer needles, some red oak, a couple maple species, a couple of birch species, poplar, ash, crabapples, and a tiny bit of beech which I would love to expand. I suck at tree ID and that is something I need to get better at. With the exception of the white pines, most of the evergreens are in their own nice dry stands.

While I'm limited in equipment and living an hour away, I plan on working the stuff near the house build for now. Basically identifying some desirable trees from various species and giving them some breathing room.

This is a pretty typical area in the middle of the woods. All thin trees which shoot up trying to catch the sun, then fall over and die. The moss is an indicator of something I can't do anything about-the lot isn't wet, but there is a lot of water for a long time every year. This results in thin root systems and occasionally root systems rotting out. It's not bad in this pic, but you'll see it on the base of trees in others.
View attachment 1083965

This is an overhead shot from October 2022. Lots of trees. House is to the right of the excavator:
View attachment 1083964

Other pics:
Same place in three different directions. This is near the house and I have done some brushcutting to clean up.
View attachment 1083970View attachment 1083971View attachment 1083972


Four pics from same place, but different directions. On one of the trails.
View attachment 1083977View attachment 1083978View attachment 1083979View attachment 1083980

At the pic limit, so only one pic. This is a more open area, but in the third pic you can see the birches leaning over. This happens with all the hardwoods throughout the property.
View attachment 1083983

Clear ONLY what is required for the access and site you desire. Make the build. Than play with a forest thats in dire need of a woodsman/DNR agent who will cheerfully ribbon your desirable stock. Even areas of scrub brush serve the land you own. Nice piece of property. Get a book on land mgmt. with a 20 yr. plan.......

 

[Mad Professor]

I appreciate the input folks! Mad Professor, I'm currently reading through those. Thanks.

Whether it costs money or not, getting a forester out on the land and helping me develop a management plan/identifying invasives has been on my to do list, but likely won't happen until late this year at the earliest.

UNH has a lot of good resources on their site as well as a good directory of county foresters and I see they finally got a Coös County forester on there, so that's good.

https://extension.unh.edu/natural-resources/forests-trees




I'm certainly willing to pay. I think my end goal is to leave the place healthier than when I bought it and also enjoy some firewood.

I do think that is what is happening-after it was logged, it got overstocked and the trees are fighting each other with none of them winning.

**************

On the predator topic, I just had a young coyote trot through the yard. 30 seconds later a hen turkey strolled up. Rookie 'yote has a lot to learn if he's missing that hen.

I wrote up my plan in 2017. Funded from the state. USDA has similar funds available via "EQUIP" for writing management plans.

Here is USDA EQUIP payment scales for 2017

 

[dboyd351]

In Virginia the Forestry Dept has a course landowners can take online to develop a magagement plan for their property which sounds ideal for your situation. They also have days where you can walk through the woods and learn to identify trees.

 

[ATpro]

Land management all depends on goals and time frame. Being his stand is mostly hardwood limits any thing that can be done short term for effect, hardwoods just grow to slow. The first thing is to keep fire out of a hardwood forest if you value your trees. While you may not see the damage to older trees, that damage may show up later in years. Once you boll the sap on the exposed root or trunk the damage is done. It take a well defined plan to burn in a hardwood forest.

If the plan is to improve habitat for wildlife, Hinge cut trees will improve habitat, thinning undesirable non bearing nut and fruit trees by Hinge cut or removal would be a good start. Opening up the canopy will allow the under-story to brush up. It's nice to walk through clean clear woods but the only attraction for wildlife is during times when the the nuts or fruit drop.

Looking at his photos his land is typical of a logged hardwood forest, lots of saplings, undesirable and twin trunk trees left because no commercial value. To improve these types of forest for commercial value one must take a long term recovery plan. Here one needs to eliminate unwanted species of trees that is not of commercial value but you must maintain a canopy to prevent under-story growth to prevent competition for resources. Planting conifers like Red Spruce where the canopy is thinned will help prevent undesirables from regrowth and provide commercial value and forest diversity and Red Spruce can grow in poorly drained, lower elevation flats like he has at his location.

 

[ATpro]

Another advantage to diversifying your forest with a mix of conifers like Red Spruce is it will upgrade the stem count of trees per-acre and help control water load on the land that is often to wet at times for hardwoods. Some though we were craze back in the 80s for clear cutting wet soggy ground and then planting plantation loblolly pines at a stem rate of 900 seedlings per-acre. The loblolly pines would suck the water up and other species of trees would migrate in years later as the loblolly pines were thinned. We could actually terraform the environment, a practice now frond on but a good practice that's useful in addressing problems like yours. It also created an environment where wildlife could expand tremendously with clear cutting, often deer populations would expand three fold or more. Alabama still has a limit of a doe a day and the season runs for almost 4 month.

 

[wseibert]

There is also the New Hampshire Timber Owners Association that may be another good resource for you.

Will

 

[littletimber]

I second Mad Professor. I have a forestry management plan, the state put it together for me, paid for by us tax payers. They have been a wealth of information. They have walked my woods (30 acres) several times and provided lots of wisdom. They have also provided lots of funds through EQIP to promote me for caring for my forest. Call the division of forestry. Call the county soil and water. Don't give up, eventually you will get someone that will have your same passion and help you, at least that has been my experience!