Greener
ArboristSite Operative
If a power line is in contact with the trunk of the tree and I cut the top off, branches, etc, can I get shocked?
Wires
- Thread starter Greener
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Probably not, but what difference does that make? If you are asking the question, you are unqualified to be there. The general rule regarding high voltage is "don't come within 10 feet".
You did not specify what kind of wire you are dealing with. The service line to a home is typically 240 volts; they are generally pretty safe from electrocuting a tree trimmer. If it is a primary touching the tree, you need to not come anywhere near it.
If you don't know the difference, you need to learn a lot more before you go anywhere near any electric wires.
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Consider this: Say you are working above the primary, and you swing a branch down that breaks the connection to the trunk. OOPS! Now that branch is conducting high voltage back to where you are at, and that is not likely to end well.
You did not specify what kind of wire you are dealing with. The service line to a home is typically 240 volts; they are generally pretty safe from electrocuting a tree trimmer. If it is a primary touching the tree, you need to not come anywhere near it.
If you don't know the difference, you need to learn a lot more before you go anywhere near any electric wires.
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Consider this: Say you are working above the primary, and you swing a branch down that breaks the connection to the trunk. OOPS! Now that branch is conducting high voltage back to where you are at, and that is not likely to end well.
If it is the line between the pole (transformer) and house, many power companies will drop and/or de-energize the line for no charge (that is a lot easier than cleaning up the mess after the fact...).
frostedunit
ArboristSite Lurker
You'll be fine. Just make sure you do it first thing in the morning with a heavy dew on or better yet after a good rain. And shake the tree as much as possible while you're going up.
Seriously, if you have to ask, stay away. Don't know about your area, but you can be prosecuted by our local power company just for trimming a tree within 15 of a primary without the proper training.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2
Seriously, if you have to ask, stay away. Don't know about your area, but you can be prosecuted by our local power company just for trimming a tree within 15 of a primary without the proper training.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2
Carburetorless
ArboristSite Guru
How do power line trimmers avoid being electrocuted? Are they impervious to electric shock or do they have methods/techniques to prevent being shocked? What are those methods/techniques?
By using the techniques they learned at "Line trimming" school. NOTHING else can substitute, certainly not any advice at Arborist Site.
No, they use the techniques they learned at "Line trimming" school. NOTHING else can substitute, certainly not any advice at Arborist Site.
I don't know. I never went to "Line trimming" school. I am smart enough to know that all I have to do is stay more than 10' away from energized power lines.
By the way, C-less, thanks for the red rep. By doing so, you give me the opportunity to show the rest of the folks at ArboristSite what an ass you are.
You said to me: "Does the OP really need belittling? I don't think so, he already knows he lacks knowledge on the subject, that's why he's asking the question here in 101"
I challenge you to quote any part of my post that belittles the OP. Telling someone they are unqualified is not an insult, it is simply a fact. What I told Greener was life-saving information. I phrased it as directly, simply, and convincingly as I was able to do. If you know a better way to tell someone not to do something dangerous that they should not do, perhaps you should offer that information.
You and I have had some conflict in the past, and I have refrained from commenting negatively towards or about you. I thought we had reached that agreement. "Reputation" is no longer meaningful on this website, so neither red nor green rep has any real value. Since you chose to pick a fight with me, I am simply responding in kind. Rather than starting some silly red-rep war with you, I am putting your comments into the public forum.
You said to me: "Does the OP really need belittling? I don't think so, he already knows he lacks knowledge on the subject, that's why he's asking the question here in 101"
I challenge you to quote any part of my post that belittles the OP. Telling someone they are unqualified is not an insult, it is simply a fact. What I told Greener was life-saving information. I phrased it as directly, simply, and convincingly as I was able to do. If you know a better way to tell someone not to do something dangerous that they should not do, perhaps you should offer that information.
You and I have had some conflict in the past, and I have refrained from commenting negatively towards or about you. I thought we had reached that agreement. "Reputation" is no longer meaningful on this website, so neither red nor green rep has any real value. Since you chose to pick a fight with me, I am simply responding in kind. Rather than starting some silly red-rep war with you, I am putting your comments into the public forum.
Carburetorless
ArboristSite Guru
802climber
ArboristSite Operative
My advice to the OP- get an EHAP book, take EHAP, and better yet get professionally trained. Until then, stay away.
And the short answer to your question: the methods/techniques often involve shutting off the power. Or using specialized, inspected and frequently replaced equipment. Accidents and deaths do happen even using these methods and equipment.
A service line to a home is in no way safe and can cause death or serious injury. Ignorance and carelessness cause these injuries and deaths. People do not respect these service lines enough. Anyway, it's not the "volts" that kills you.
Also if an electrical conductor is contacting or close enough to a tree, the tree becomes an electrical hazard. Ten foot minimum approach distance still applies if you are untrained/unqualified.
Linemen go to school.
Line clearance trimmers go through on the job training and also EHAP, where they teach you much more than can be communicated through the internet. Including minimum approach distance based on voltage and type of conductor which varies regionally.
And guys are still killed and electrocuted because of taking shortcuts, ignoring the rules, ignorance, or poor communication.
Some relevant highlights..........
"Anything" can be hot. This applies to poles, ground wires, guy wires, telephone/cable lines, ANYTHING. A downed and de-energized primary can kill you if there is backfeed coming through the neutral wire (like a homeowner running a generator in a power outage).
The black "insulation" on a service line is NOT insulation - it is merely weathercoat. This gets worn away and animals chew on it exposing wire.
Wet, worn or dirty tools and ropes can conduct electricity.
You have to evaluate a situation and considering all variables, what COULD cause indirect contact with a conductor? Indirect contact can kill you just as dead as direct contact.
I am not trying to sound like a jerk, I just have a huge respect for and awareness of electrical hazards, more so than most.
The worst I took when working line clearance was getting knocked flat on the ground from indirect contact with an electrical conductor. Following all training, rules and procedures. One thing can lead to another really fast.
And the short answer to your question: the methods/techniques often involve shutting off the power. Or using specialized, inspected and frequently replaced equipment. Accidents and deaths do happen even using these methods and equipment.
A service line to a home is in no way safe and can cause death or serious injury. Ignorance and carelessness cause these injuries and deaths. People do not respect these service lines enough. Anyway, it's not the "volts" that kills you.
Also if an electrical conductor is contacting or close enough to a tree, the tree becomes an electrical hazard. Ten foot minimum approach distance still applies if you are untrained/unqualified.
Linemen go to school.
Line clearance trimmers go through on the job training and also EHAP, where they teach you much more than can be communicated through the internet. Including minimum approach distance based on voltage and type of conductor which varies regionally.
And guys are still killed and electrocuted because of taking shortcuts, ignoring the rules, ignorance, or poor communication.
Some relevant highlights..........
"Anything" can be hot. This applies to poles, ground wires, guy wires, telephone/cable lines, ANYTHING. A downed and de-energized primary can kill you if there is backfeed coming through the neutral wire (like a homeowner running a generator in a power outage).
The black "insulation" on a service line is NOT insulation - it is merely weathercoat. This gets worn away and animals chew on it exposing wire.
Wet, worn or dirty tools and ropes can conduct electricity.
You have to evaluate a situation and considering all variables, what COULD cause indirect contact with a conductor? Indirect contact can kill you just as dead as direct contact.
I am not trying to sound like a jerk, I just have a huge respect for and awareness of electrical hazards, more so than most.
The worst I took when working line clearance was getting knocked flat on the ground from indirect contact with an electrical conductor. Following all training, rules and procedures. One thing can lead to another really fast.
sgreanbeans
Treeaculterologist
Most of your deaths come from guys who know and get relaxed with the danger. Guys get up their with the "too cool for school" attitude and they slip up, then they are dead. Like PD said, stay 10ft away and call Big O or whoever does your area when ya need it. No tree job is worth dying for.
802climber
ArboristSite Operative
Yes, it is all about being too cool for school. Or not knowing any better. Whether you were too cool for electrical hazard training or never got any.
They say that in line clearance you are most likely to get hurt in your first year or 8th year...
I was climbing for a guy who wanted me to swing some tops past some "Wires". Now, I was trained in a different part of the US which had different configurations and voltages etc. So took one look and was not comfortable chancing this. Bigger than any three phase I had ever worked near. He was also not aware that high voltage lines will "grab" stuff toward them and not let go.
Did my homework, they turned out to be 14400 volts per phase.
They say that in line clearance you are most likely to get hurt in your first year or 8th year...
I was climbing for a guy who wanted me to swing some tops past some "Wires". Now, I was trained in a different part of the US which had different configurations and voltages etc. So took one look and was not comfortable chancing this. Bigger than any three phase I had ever worked near. He was also not aware that high voltage lines will "grab" stuff toward them and not let go.
Did my homework, they turned out to be 14400 volts per phase.
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Almost every primary we see is 14.4k. I don't have any way of knowing, but I ask the line drop guys and the "supervisors" about the line clearance stuff every time I catch one with any sort of conversation.
I always learn something from them; mostly cause I always try to pick their brains. Generally, I think most of them like to be considered experts, and they are usually helpful.
I always learn something from them; mostly cause I always try to pick their brains. Generally, I think most of them like to be considered experts, and they are usually helpful.
Just to re-comfirm earlier statements by others that wood is a conductor, here is what I saw today:
Branch broke from tree (in the storm last week), fell on service drop. That weight pulled the pole with the primaries over, that caused one phase and the ground to contact another tree (linden). That tree now has 2 large burn marks about 4-6' apart each 8-10" in diameter - entry and exit wounds from the shock.
Branch broke from tree (in the storm last week), fell on service drop. That weight pulled the pole with the primaries over, that caused one phase and the ground to contact another tree (linden). That tree now has 2 large burn marks about 4-6' apart each 8-10" in diameter - entry and exit wounds from the shock.
Carburetorless
ArboristSite Guru
treeclimber101
UNCLE BUCK
ddhlakebound
Addicted to ArboristSite
Unfortunately all that wood is generally covered by a layer of sap (water) which is a natural conductor. Seems sorta dangerous to say to oneself, "Self, this tree here that I'm in is made of wood, and wood is not a natural conductor, so bombs away." How much does it really matter whether it's oak or spruce? Enough to want to contact HV?
treeclimber101
UNCLE BUCK
Actually your a bit clouded there , maybe instead of me trying to explain it my way I will just find you a example of the differences how the water/sap travels through a tree makes all the difference in its conductivity ..Do you think with the abundance of hardwoods its a coincidence that we don't use them for service poles .. I am not saying that if a spruce tree is energized its safe at all ... And honestly wood is not a natural conductor period maybe sap and water are but that is not always the case either , did you ever take any Ehap courses or anything in relation to electrical safety ? and by all means I dont wanna argue at all I am over that #### but facts are the facts and I don't wanna see anyone get hurt but I don't wanna see people look like jackasses either and run around spouting off wrong info that they heard here
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ddhlakebound
Addicted to ArboristSite
EHAP card in pocket......
But I agree, it's a rather muddy discussion. It's very difficult to predict if/how much voltage will be transmitted in any given situation.
I only replied because unless you can predict with accuracy what's going to happen, it's best to avoid that set of variables all together. When you're in the position of actually finding out whether or not voltage will be transmitted, and how much, with your ass strapped to the tree, you're mostly down to luck at that point.
I don't feel that using stripped, dried, utility poles is very useful example for people working in live trees. And they do still put insulators up there for some reason or other.
Hardwoods make poor service poles because they don't grow tall, thin, and strong with little branching. The choice to use conifers is not based at all on conductivity. It's all about using the best tree for the job. Since there are large conifer forests filled with suitable poles that require only modest processing, that makes them the best choice.
Besides, I have watched big HV power streaming down the entire length of a power pole during icing events. It was carbonizing the path it was flowing to ground with, and the entire pole seemed to become a conductor. No emergency services on site, 911 wouldn't even answer the phone, I got to watch it for about 15 minutes. I don't think the variety of tree the pole was made with had anything to do with it's conductivity.
Greener
ArboristSite Operative
pdqdl: Your third response here should have been your one and only response to my op. I did not do this tree job, nor did I have any intention of doing so, nor would I use the information from this site as any basis for how I operate in my work, especially outside of my scope. Just a question I wanted to put out there.
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