Aftermarket Cylinder... good and bad... the Truth!

[thomas1]

Dude.. That was an awesome post,but i have ADD and couldn't finish reading it.:msp_tongue:

tl;dr

 

[DSS]

Dude.. That was an awesome post,but i have ADD and couldn't finish reading it.:msp_tongue:

I think you meant to say your butt exploded halfway through the post.

 

[thomas1]

I think you meant to say your butt exploded halfway through the post.

Pics?

 

[8433jeff]

For the good of the community, NO.

 

[almondgt]

*fart*



Sup d00dz.

Your trouser cough got the attention of 3 of your admirers...............:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

How bout those AM jugs!:msp_thumbup:

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

How bout those AM jugs!:msp_thumbup:

"A" cup, "B" cup, or "C" cup?:msp_tongue:

But seriously, how is the A, B, or C designation established for a given AM top end product, and who does it? Is it a tolerance spec, or just an arbitrary and subjective observation? And when does it generally happen in the process? And what are the actual differences among the designations?

 

[Mastermind]

It's not just from crappier kits though. I bought a big bore kit for my 044 from a site sponsor and got a .031 squish with out base gasket. The kit was supposed to be one of the top dogs before the meteor kits came out. I never checked compression due to me not totally trusting my compression gauge that I ordered at the same time from the same place. I am not bashing this kit or the sponsor! I have given out this kits name to others that are looking for reasonable solutions to fix there saws. I never brought this up to the seller, i just figured I received what I paid for. Other then the squish I haven't had a problem with the kit. I am just a firewood cutter,not a logger. If my lifestyle/job/family depended on it, it would have taken a whole different direction. I guess my point is, even if you buy a higher end kit things may not be satisfactory for some.

.031 is about a normal squish measurement.

That's true mate but people forget that factory saws are quite often coming with only 150psi compression new and also have high squish.
Trouble is that people hear about .030" squish and 150psi compression on an AM kit and the knives are out as they have never checked factory compression or factory squish.

:msp_thumbup:

 

[WoodChuck'r]

Sup Chucky?

Settin' back wit mah fellow gangstaz and chillen' like a villen.



Chu' doin'....??

 

[WoodChuck'r]

Your trouser cough got the attention of 3 of your admirers...............:hmm3grin2orange:

The 4 of us are like mice, we put our odor out so we can keep track of where we're at.

 

[edisto]

cjcocn interviews lawnmowertech37 | Xtranormal

I spotted a little...

 

[Grande Dog]

No elaboration on your rather obscure "A" "B" "C" references of last evening?

Is there actually a standard among you guys who sell this stuff?

Or were you referring to an arbitrary rating qualifier relating to all of the vendors who sell the same AM p/c kits and claiming "A" players are more credible because theirs are better than the ones we should buy from "B" "C" players with limited credentials and market history...even though the kits are the same kits...if indeed they are based upon the "A" "B" "C" quality designation the kits are purported to have?

opcorn:

Howdy,
Sorry, I thought the way my eyes were bleeding I had read all the posts. I was referring to who was actually manufacturing, wholesaling, and retailing them. I really only know part of the story, and don't currently have the time to write half a book. If anybody wants to ask specific, or direct questions, I'll answer the best I can with what I know just like always.
We have no issue with other folks in direct competition but, I can see where we're going to have our product cast marked in some way. I'm thinking the Taiwan flag on it will cut out the copies of the copies. I think capitalism will be at its peak in China when they become willing to copy the Taiwanese flag.
The reason for the marking is because of the 1 year warranty we honor. Don't get me wrong here because I'm not saying this is being done on purpose, or that it involves members here but, occasionally we'll have people having multiple issues return the kits for inspection. We've actually been seeing components coming back to us that were sold by somebody else. Like I said, I can see this happening when people buy from different retailers and lose tract. It's tough for us to tell, and we've been selling them for a while. The only things we can tell is maybe the piston isn't coated, or if they tell us that they used the rings that came with the kit but, they're not ours.
It won't be too long before I have some new product that nobody else will have (at least for a little while).
Regards
Gregg

 

[roostersgt]

I would expect less performance with a Golf. Why premium rings if you are going to skimp somewhere else? Is the lackluster power a result of the cylinder or the piston?

Usually stuck with lesser quality pistons because Meteor doesn't yet make one for a 039 (49mm) and I'm not going to pay $80+ for OEM piston. Caber rings are made with higher quality metal and I trust them not to break. To be honest, I've never had a ring failure myself, but have read about others having the cheap piston kits rings fail causing the cylinder and bottom end to get wasted. I'm just being cautious and going with what I know works.

I'm not really sure why the performance is always lower with the kit cylinders. Ports? Squish? Compression? I don't know. I don't trust the readings on my compression testers either, and I don't waste time measuring other things I don't have the knowledge or skills to change. I prefer the plug and play route. OEM when practical, kits cylinder with Caber rings when no OEM new, or used available at a good price. For some of the talented guys on this site, a kit could probably be made to smoke a OEM , but it would for sure take some machine/port work.

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

Howdy,
The reason for the marking is because of the 1 year warranty
It won't be too long before I have some new product that nobody else will have (at least for a little while).
Regards
Gregg

WOW! Dog......1 year warranty......can't beat that!.....Put me down for a dozen of those new 046/066/084 quad loopers, with/cast heads.:hmm3grin2orange:

likes Dog!

 

[thomas1]

Usually stuck with lesser quality pistons because Meteor doesn't yet make one for a 039 (49mm) and I'm not going to pay $80+ for OEM piston. Caber rings are made with higher quality metal and I trust them not to break. To be honest, I've never had a ring failure myself, but have read about others having the cheap piston kits rings fail causing the cylinder and bottom end to get wasted. I'm just being cautious and going with what I know works.

I'm not really sure why the performance is always lower with the kit cylinders. Ports? Squish? Compression? I don't know. I don't trust the readings on my torque wrenches either and I don't waste time measuring other things I don't have the knowledge or skills to change. I prefer the plug and play route. OEM when practical, kits cylinder with Caber rings when no OEM new, or used available at a good price. For some of the talented guys on this site, a kit could probably be made to smoke a OEM , but it would for sure take some machine/port work.

So, you don't trust your tools and can't be bothered to take any meaningful measurements, but you know aftermarket kits are bad because they seem down on power for some reason you cannot explain. Is that correct?

 

[roostersgt]

Sort of, yes. I prefer to let the folks who design / engineer the kits be responsible for their design and finished product. They all advertise they should work straight out of the box and "bolt right up". I have two automotive compression testers and both give different readings. Those type of gauges just aren't accurate, unless one spends a fortune and buys a Snap On etc.... a bit much for my saw building hobby.

I'm simply sharing my experiences for the benefit of other hobbyist builders in the hopes of saving them some problems and time. The folks who WANT all the measurements etc... you seem to want to know could probably care less about my experiences with the kits, they've likely already been there / done that. The technical stuff you mentioned does not interest me. I just want to bolt the parts on and have a strong, reliable saw when I'm done.

 

[HuskStihl]

As long as it stays civilized this thread can roll. If it turns into another dog fight and blame shifting mess....it's gone.

I had just about figured out the teams when it got all civilized

 

[blsnelling]

Gregg, can you comment on the different referred to quality levels? Can you give us some more details on your 1 year warranty?

 

[nmurph]

...and a hint at what else might be coming.

 

[thomas1]

Sort of, yes. I prefer to let the folks who design / engineer the kits be responsible for their design and finished product. They all advertise they should work straight out of the box and "bolt right up". I have two automotive compression testers and both give different readings. Those type of gauges just aren't accurate, unless one spends a fortune and buys a Snap On etc.... a bit much for my saw building hobby.

I'm simply sharing my experiences for the benefit of other hobbyist builders in the hopes of saving them some problems and time. The folks who WANT all the measurements etc... you seem to want to know could probably care less about my experiences with the kits, they've likely already been there / done that. The technical stuff you mentioned does not interest me. I just want to bolt the parts on and have a strong, reliable saw when I'm done.

I notice you don't include saving them money. By your way of thinking (that you don't care why it doesn't work, it just doesn't) why wouldn't you just advise them to buy a new saw when the old one quit working? No need to troubleshoot anything because a stock saw lasts forever, right?