Aftermarket Cylinder... good and bad... the Truth!

[Dennis Cahoon]

Howdy Dennis,
Did I forget to mention they were going to be stratos (just kiddn', aka?......Hahahahahaha!?
I really don't even want to speculate. There's going to be a lot of hoops to jump through, and I can see form here that the townspeople haven't even started lighting the ones at the end yet.

Regards
Gregg

.....strato's.....Real funny Dog!.......Now I'm gonna throw in a request, how bout a cast removeable head?.....Hahahahahaha! Good Luck!

 

[Grande Dog]

Howdy,
I had been thinking about a stacker cylinder on studs. I don't know how an average guy would take to it, because the bottom line is it has to turn a buck or they'll take my toys away. Manufacturers are wanting larger and larger MOQ's on new products.
Regards
Gregg

 

[husqvarnaguy]

But does he have the same bar code on his ass?

More important question is how you knowed it was there.:msp_ohmy:

 

[DSS]

More important question is how you knowed it was there.:msp_ohmy:

This aint my first day here.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Howdy,
I had been thinking about a stacker cylinder on studs. I don't know how an average guy would take to it, because the bottom line is it has to turn a buck or they'll take my toys away. Manufacturers are wanting larger and larger MOQ's on new products.
Regards
Gregg

No elaboration on your rather obscure "A" "B" "C" references of last evening?

Is there actually a standard among you guys who sell this stuff?

Or were you referring to an arbitrary rating qualifier relating to all of the vendors who sell the same AM p/c kits and claiming "A" players are more credible because theirs are better than the ones we should buy from "B" "C" players with limited credentials and market history...even though the kits are the same kits...if indeed they are based upon the "A" "B" "C" quality designation the kits are purported to have?

opcorn:

 

[almondgt]

I bet the Op is feeling left out right about now......................:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[WoodChuck'r]

*fart*



Sup d00dz.

 

[Mastermind]

*fart*



Sup d00dz.

Sup Chucky?

 

[watsonr]

Not left out, amazed at all the misconceptions! No wonder it's so confusing. There are A, B, C players and there are A, B, C cylinders and they all come from the same place. Its a matter of figuring out who has which at the best price and who stands behind which one for a warranty.

Suppliers are about quantity. I get a better price on kits when I sell more of them, as I sell more, the supplier offers me a better deal and that deal should be passed to you... sometimes it is and sometimes its not. The more volume I buy the better the deals.

Your concerned with price and quality. If I pay $50 a kit, charge, $65 a kit, refunds for bad kits are tough. If I pay $50 a kit and charge $135, I can replace one kit and not get hurt, eventually your going to get a good kit or stop bugging me. If I only replace one kit out of every 10.... I never blink.... and why do I need to ask then to fix anything? I'm making money, the one guy who complained got a good kit and everybody's happy except Brad. There really isn't an incentive to fix anything. My supplier is happy, he's selling volume. I'm happy, I'm selling volume, your happy because with just a little effort, your saw runs.

In the end, I gave great customer service, responded immediately to your request and shipped fast. The difference is the guy who refuses to sell crap after you've told me there junk and does nothing to help the problem. We hear this again and again and where has it gotten? Your still buying junk!

I've been a sponsor for a very short time and already a ton of PMs come to me asking for help in correcting a bunch of products that were either poorly manufactured or designed. All I did was call someone and told them....your stuff isn't cutting it, can you fix this problem? I told someone who was willing to listen, I gave them the solution to fix there quality problem and explained about the potential increase sales... BINGO, suggestion received!

 

[MCW]

All I did was call someone and told them....your stuff isn't cutting it, can you fix this problem? I told someone who was willing to listen, I gave them the solution to fix there quality problem and explained about the potential increase sales... BINGO, suggestion received!

And that is all it takes. If you make enough noise about crap kits they certainly do listen. The biggest hurdle is when other resellers who don't give a toss about quality and/or backup proceed to tell the same supplier "I've never had a problem". Fact is that they've probably been telling any people who have had warranty issues that it's "their fault".
Anybody who has sold AM kits has had quality control problems at some stage without a doubt. The better resellers have worked to correct these quality concerns by either changing manufacturers or forcing them to fix the issue.
As I've mentioned before I do not deal directly with the kit manufacturers but with a 3rd party supplier. He does all the work for me if I have a complaint because I don't speak Chinese too well

 

[roostersgt]

To be clear about AM cylinders, I have not had any catastrophic "failures", yet, but I have noticed a remarkably lower saw performance when using them over "good used OEM". Slower throttle response and "lugging" issues when cutting. Haven't had any of the other issues folks here have posted regarding cylinder "lining" flaking off, poor machining etc... I've only experienced lack luster power. Enough of a difference that it may as well have been a saw in a lower cc class. Anyone else notice the same results? I've used AM cylinders 6 times now, and am presently working on another (039) w/ AM cylinder and piston. Caber rings and Golf piston.

I prefer "plug and play" stuff when rebuilding a saw. I'm not interested in anything fancy, like porting cylinders, cutting squish band etc... I like to keep it simple.

 

[MCW]

To be clear about AM cylinders, I have not had any catastrophic "failures", yet, but I have noticed a remarkably lower saw performance when using them over "good used OEM". Slower throttle response and "lugging" issues when cutting. Haven't had any of the other issues folks here have posted regarding cylinder "lining" flaking off, poor machining etc... I've only experienced lack luster power. Enough of a difference that it may as well have been a saw in a lower cc class. Anyone else notice the same results? I've used AM cylinders 6 times now, and am presently working on another (039) w/ AM cylinder and piston. Caber rings and Golf piston.

I prefer "plug and play" stuff when rebuilding a saw. I'm not interested in anything fancy, like porting cylinders, cutting squish band etc... I like to keep it simple.

I have to be honest I have never noticed any significant drop in power with the better AM kits but I have seen lower compression and the odd failure by using the supplied, cheap rings. As mentioned earlier I've seen a compression increase of 15psi on a 372XP BB kit by just adding Caber rings and I feel that this is where performance gains can be made out of the box. I'm a big believer that compression makes power. Other members here have also seen big jumps in compression by swapping to better rings.
Randy (watsonr) is definately covering a lot of bases by supplying Cabers with his kits. He will also be saving himself a lot of headaches down the track When you think that Cabers are USD$12-15 a set then having them included saves time by not having to source them yourself - this is a great move on his part. The problem with aftermarket rings is that you never quite know whether they are going to be good or bad and it is near impossible to tell by simply looking at them. Best option is to replace them.
Also in some cases you will find that the timing numbers on some lines of AM kits are quite aggressive compared to stock resulting in MORE power than OEM. I have some 372XP BB kits here that a number of Australian members are running plus some in the US/Canada/Ireland as well. I have also passed details onto Randy (watsonr) as to where he can get these and I sent one to the other Randy (Mastermind) to have a look at. The numbers that Mastermind gave me from this kit meant nothing to me but he thought they were pretty good
I'm a plug and play type guy as well and have no interest in porting things myself. I'll leave that to the guys who know what they're doing.

Just to clarify don't talk to me if you want kits and you are a US member. Talk to Randy or other sponsors. Any information I have gathered over the years in regard to quality and where I am sourcing my kits has been passed on to the two Randys.

 

[roostersgt]

I'm a big fan of the Caber rings too. Always exchange the supplied "kit" rings with them. My only critique, and its for those on this forum interested in forming their own opinion, is that my experience has been the AM cylinder kits have always performed far below even "used" OEM in operator perceived power performance. At least that's been my honest observations. I have no "dog" in this race, so to speak. I don't sell AM ,or OEM parts. I'm simply a chainsaw enthusiast, nothing more.

 

[MCW]

I'm a big fan of the Caber rings too. Always exchange the supplied "kit" rings with them. My only critique, and its for those on this forum interested in forming their own opinion, is that my experience has been the AM cylinder kits have always performed far below even "used" OEM in operator perceived power performance. At least that's been my honest observations. I have no "dog" in this race, so to speak. I don't sell AM ,or OEM parts. I'm simply a chainsaw enthusiast, nothing more.

No doubt you'd notice a lack of performance with some of the crappier kits I've seen on the market. I've seen squish out to .040" without a base gasket and compression around 140psi. Without some serious machining these kits were useless but would certainly get somebody out of trouble in a pinch.
The overall quality of AM kits in the last two years has jumped dramatically but even then there are some shockers as witnessed in other threads with back to back failures and the like.

 

[Toad22t]

No doubt you'd notice a lack of performance with some of the crappier kits I've seen on the market. I've seen squish out to .040" without a base gasket and compression around 140psi. Without some serious machining these kits were useless but would certainly get somebody out of trouble in a pinch.
The overall quality of AM kits in the last two years has jumped dramatically but even then there are some shockers as witnessed in other threads with back to back failures and the like.

It's not just from crappier kits though. I bought a big bore kit for my 044 from a site sponsor and got a .031 squish with out base gasket. The kit was supposed to be one of the top dogs before the meteor kits came out. I never checked compression due to me not totally trusting my compression gauge that I ordered at the same time from the same place. I am not bashing this kit or the sponsor! I have given out this kits name to others that are looking for reasonable solutions to fix there saws. I never brought this up to the seller, i just figured I received what I paid for. Other then the squish I haven't had a problem with the kit. I am just a firewood cutter,not a logger. If my lifestyle/job/family depended on it, it would have taken a whole different direction. I guess my point is, even if you buy a higher end kit things may not be satisfactory for some.

 

[MCW]

It's not just from crappier kits though. I bought a big bore kit for my 044 from a site sponsor and got a .031 squish with out base gasket. The kit was supposed to be one of the top dogs before the meteor kits came out. I never checked compression due to me not totally trusting my compression gauge that I ordered at the same time from the same place. I am not bashing this kit or the sponsor! I have given out this kits name to others that are looking for reasonable solutions to fix there saws. I never brought this up to the seller, i just figured I received what I paid for. Other then the squish I haven't had a problem with the kit. I am just a firewood cutter,not a logger. If my lifestyle/job/family depended on it, it would have taken a whole different direction. I guess my point is, even if you buy a higher end kit things may not be satisfactory for some.

That's true mate but people forget that factory saws are quite often coming with only 150psi compression new and also have high squish.
Trouble is that people hear about .030" squish and 150psi compression on an AM kit and the knives are out as they have never checked factory compression or factory squish.

 

[ZeroJunk]

If you want a hot rod for yourself or are building for pros and enthusiast the concern about some minor differences in performance may matter. Otherwise, squish measurements and compression readings over 150 are just meaningless. The average saw owner just wants a saw to cut wood for an hour so he can spend the rest of the day splitting it. Or, just clean up nusisance stuff around the house or farm.

I have had one saw that I rebuilt for a neighbor that I thought was a little weak. I saw him a few days ago and he says he has been using the saw all winter and it is running great, as far as he is concerned. But, he didn't measure the squish or compression so he could be disappointed.

 

[stihl sawing]

*fart*



Sup d00dz.

Dude.. That was an awesome post,but i have ADD and couldn't finish reading it.:msp_tongue:

 

[8433jeff]

To be clear about AM cylinders, I have not had any catastrophic "failures", yet, but I have noticed a remarkably lower saw performance when using them over "good used OEM". Slower throttle response and "lugging" issues when cutting. Haven't had any of the other issues folks here have posted regarding cylinder "lining" flaking off, poor machining etc... I've only experienced lack luster power. Enough of a difference that it may as well have been a saw in a lower cc class. Anyone else notice the same results? I've used AM cylinders 6 times now, and am presently working on another (039) w/ AM cylinder and piston. Caber rings and Golf piston.

I prefer "plug and play" stuff when rebuilding a saw. I'm not interested in anything fancy, like porting cylinders, cutting squish band etc... I like to keep it simple.

I would expect less performance with a Golf. Why premium rings if you are going to skimp somewhere else? Is the lackluster power a result of the cylinder or the piston?

 

[thomas1]

It's not just from crappier kits though. I bought a big bore kit for my 044 from a site sponsor and got a .031 squish with out base gasket. The kit was supposed to be one of the top dogs before the meteor kits came out. I never checked compression due to me not totally trusting my compression gauge that I ordered at the same time from the same place. I am not bashing this kit or the sponsor! I have given out this kits name to others that are looking for reasonable solutions to fix there saws. I never brought this up to the seller, i just figured I received what I paid for. Other then the squish I haven't had a problem with the kit. I am just a firewood cutter,not a logger. If my lifestyle/job/family depended on it, it would have taken a whole different direction. I guess my point is, even if you buy a higher end kit things may not be satisfactory for some.

What are you using to measure your squish? You seemed to have been frugal on parts and a compression gauge can we assume that you are using chicom measuring tools, as well?