possible benefit of ethanol?

[066blaster]

I'm wondering if the ethanol in gas now days is helping prevent gas line freeze up in vehicles....I'm thinking the water created by condensation in the tank just mixes with the ethanol and constantly gets burned out instead of accumulating and flowing through as straight water and possibly freezing.

That gas line anti freeze is straight alcohol anyway isn't it.

 

[tla100]

It helps keep the corn prices up.....

 

[jdogg]

Someday they could quit putting crap in it to make it undrinkable then we could have super cheap MOONSHINE!!!! PS they feed the dried mash to animals after they have converted the starch to sugar to alcohol so its not like all the corn used doesn't go to animal feed.

 

[PheasantHunter]

Yes, no need to add gas line de-icer if your gasoline contains ethanol. When is the last time you heard of a gas car or truck with fuel line freeze up? At least 25 years for me.

 

[066blaster]

Yes, no need to add gas line de-icer if your gasoline contains ethanol. When is the last time you heard of a gas car or truck with fuel line freeze up? At least 25 years for me.

Yeah it's been awhile. Just happen to cross my mind today with the cold.

 

[fordf150]

Yes, no need to add gas line de-icer if your gasoline contains ethanol. When is the last time you heard of a gas car or truck with fuel line freeze up? At least 25 years for me.

And ethanol has only been around for 5-10 years. Gas line freeze up was more a function of crappy fuel storage tanks at gas stations and disappeared when new designs of underground storage tanks started being installed at gas stations back in the 80's. Just my personal observation and what I came up with to explain the disappearance of fuel related issues.

Ever notice that in this day and age you almost never replace a fuel filter. It's not uncommon to have a 10 yr old 200k mile car with the original fuel filter. In the 80's you replaced fuel filters yearly or sooner

 

[066blaster]

I worked at a few car dealerships through 90's . In the early 90's The new cars were always freezing up because they sat with only a few gallons in the tank. We would bring them in the shop for a couple hours and they were fine. I think we got ethanol in the late 90' s here, and don't remember any freezing up since.

 

[TreeTangler]

And ethanol has only been around for 5-10 years. Gas line freeze up was more a function of crappy fuel storage tanks at gas stations and disappeared when new designs of underground storage tanks started being installed at gas stations back in the 80's. Just my personal observation and what I came up with to explain the disappearance of fuel related issues.

Ever notice that in this day and age you almost never replace a fuel filter. It's not uncommon to have a 10 yr old 200k mile car with the original fuel filter. In the 80's you replaced fuel filters yearly or sooner

Many of the new vehicles today don't even have a "replaceable" fuel filter anymore.

 

[fordf150]

Many of the new vehicles today don't even have a "replaceable" fuel filter anymore.

Or replaceable trans filters. Or even a trans dipstick!!!

 

[TreeTangler]

Or replaceable trans filters. Or even a trans dipstick!!!

A lot of the trans dipsticks are still there, just a lot harder to find!

 

[fordf150]

I think it's the new dodge charger that requires a special dipstick that is just numbered. You hook a scanner up to check trans fluid temp and look at a chart to find out if it's full based on the number on the dipstick and trans fluid temp. Explorers are sort of like an old manual trans. You just pull a plug out and if fluid dribbles out it's full. Anything to make them harder to work on so the uneducated masses have to take them back to a dealer

 

[flotek]

Methanol and Ethanol are similar and they naturally absorb water out of the atmosphere . On methanol race bikes I built you had to purge out the fuel after the race with regular gas or your engine would turn to rust in a few days . Ethanol has similar properties . Don't kid yourself it is junk and doesn't get the mpg. Gas gets

 

[Whitespider]

I'm wondering if the ethanol in gas now days is helping prevent gas line freeze up in vehicles...
That gas line anti freeze is straight alcohol anyway isn't it.

No... and no.
"Gas line anti freeze" (commonly called HEET) is methanol, not ethanol.
Although they are both an alcohol, they are two very different things.
Methanol (sort'a) "absorbs" liquid moisture, keeping it in suspension with the gasoline so it doesn't freeze into a solid mass and can be pulled through the fuel system.
Ethanol (sort'a) "absorbs" moisture vapor from the air, it will not absorb liquid moisture... the warmer it is the more moisture it can hold in suspension. But when it cools the excess moisture separates out as a liquid (called phase separation). The truth is, ethanol is more likely to cause "gas line freeze up" because it literally "pulls" moisture into the fuel from the air and allows it to separate and condense as the fuel gets colder.

There's several reasons why "gas line freeze up" is less common today than it was a couple decades back.
fordf150 touched on one reason... but he's wrong that, "ethanol has only been around for 5-10 years." We had "gasohol" here in Iowa over 30 years ago... during the '80's it was notorious for fuel system freeze-ups in winter and vapor locks in summer. You see fewer "freeze ups" now because we have improved blending, storage and transportation... improved fuel additive packages... improved, non-vented, high pressure vehicle fuel systems... carburetors and mechanical fuel pumps are ancient history... etc... etc... etc... the list of reasons goes on and on and on... but ethanol ain't one of them.
*

 

[1project2many]

I think it's the new dodge charger that requires a special dipstick that is just numbered.

Anything Mercedes designed is like this. Caravans, Sprinters, all of them. PITA.

Methanol and Ethanol are similar and they naturally absorb water out of the atmosphere . On methanol race bikes I built you had to purge out the fuel after the race with regular gas or your engine would turn to rust in a few days . Ethanol has similar properties . Don't kid yourself it is junk and doesn't get the mpg. Gas gets

In this area if you leave gas in a pan over a couple of days you can see a water/ethanol puddle form in the bottom. Anything that uses metal components in the fuel system is subject to rust and corrosion. Small engines have a helluva time. Small engine carbs designed for 100% gasoline often need to be set with the choke on slightly to run right other wise you can't get enough fuel. Gasoline will smell like paint thinner in only a few days vs a week. I put a stabilizer and an additive designed to help with water into the fuel can every time I fill it up. Newer vehicles with plastic tanks and lines don't suffer as badly but the old iron has plenty of issues.

 

[066blaster]

No... and no.
"Gas line anti freeze" (commonly called HEET) is methanol, not ethanol.
Although they are both an alcohol, they are two very different things.
Methanol (sort'a) "absorbs" liquid moisture, keeping it in suspension with the gasoline so it doesn't freeze into a solid mass and can be pulled through the fuel system.
Ethanol (sort'a) "absorbs" moisture vapor from the air, it will not absorb liquid moisture... the warmer it is the more moisture it can hold in suspension. But when it cools the excess moisture separates out as a liquid (called phase separation). The truth is, ethanol is more likely to cause "gas line freeze up" because it literally "pulls" moisture into the fuel from the air and allows it to separate and condense as the fuel gets colder.

There's several reasons why "gas line freeze up" is less common today than it was a couple decades back.
fordf150 touched on one reason... but he's wrong that, "ethanol has only been around for 5-10 years." We had "gasohol" here in Iowa over 30 years ago... during the '80's it was notorious for fuel system freeze-ups in winter and vapor locks in summer. You see fewer "freeze ups" now because we have improved blending, storage and transportation... improved fuel additive packages... improved, non-vented, high pressure vehicle fuel systems... carburetors and mechanical fuel pumps are ancient history... etc... etc... etc... the list of reasons goes on and on and on... but ethanol ain't one of them.
*

I've seen videos where people added water to ethanol gas , shook it up, and let it sit overnight. The water and alcohol combined and separated from the gas. If it was shook up again it all mix together again. Have you ever had whiskey and water? Water and alcohol mix real nice.

 

[lindnova]

Yes, no need to add gas line de-icer if your gasoline contains ethanol. When is the last time you heard of a gas car or truck with fuel line freeze up? At least 25 years for me.

21 years ago for me. January 1994 - '81 Jeep Cherokee, -10° stuck on the side of the road, luckly close to a business with a phone. Took 2 bottles of isopropyl antifreeze and a jump start to get it going. I had 1/2 a tank.

About the same time a 3.5 hp briggs on a David Bradley froze up - 1 cap of isopropyl fixed it that time.

 

[lindnova]

No... and no.
"Gas line anti freeze" (commonly called HEET) is methanol, not ethanol.
Although they are both an alcohol, they are two very different things.
Methanol (sort'a) "absorbs" liquid moisture, keeping it in suspension with the gasoline so it doesn't freeze into a solid mass and can be pulled through the fuel system.
Ethanol (sort'a) "absorbs" moisture vapor from the air, it will not absorb liquid moisture... the warmer it is the more moisture it can hold in suspension. But when it cools the excess moisture separates out as a liquid (called phase separation). The truth is, ethanol is more likely to cause "gas line freeze up" because it literally "pulls" moisture into the fuel from the air and allows it to separate and condense as the fuel gets colder.*

Right, HEET is methanol. ISO HEET or other brands (usually red bottle) is isopropyl. In the rare occasions I used any it was always isopropyl as my uncle warned me about methanol causing rust and gel mess in the tank.

"There's several reasons why "gas line freeze up" is less common today than it was a couple decades back.
fordf150 touched on one reason... but he's wrong that, "ethanol has only been around for 5-10 years." We had "gasohol" here in Iowa over 30 years ago... during the '80's it was notorious for fuel system freeze-ups in winter and vapor locks in summer. You see fewer "freeze ups" now because we have improved blending, storage and transportation... improved fuel additive packages... improved, non-vented, high pressure vehicle fuel systems... carburetors and mechanical fuel pumps are ancient history... etc... etc... etc... the list of reasons goes on and on and on... but ethanol ain't one of them.*

Good information and makes sense. We've had ethanol since the 80's, but it was usually only in mid grade until around 2000 when it went in all grades. I still use 100% gasoline in my old car, truck, boat and all my small engines. I did not hear about freezing and vapor lock problems in the 80's, but my dad started using it in a '76 Cherokee and it gummed up the carburetor pretty good. It is a solvent to the gum that naturally builds up in the tank and lines.

 

[Whitespider]

I've seen videos where people added water to ethanol gas , shook it up, and let it sit overnight. The water and alcohol combined and separated from the gas. If it was shook up again it all mix together again. Have you ever had whiskey and water? Water and alcohol mix real nice.

"Mixing" and "suspension" are not the same thing.
You can't possibly see the water and alcohol separating from the gas as a good thing?? Really?? You're kiddin'... right??
That's actually the first phase of "phase separation", the second phase is when the water and ethanol separate... once that happens the water does not "mix" back in with the gasoline.
Phase separation does not happen with methanol, that's why it works as a fuel system anti-freeze... that's also why ethanol does not‼

What do you suppose happens to the gasoline when the ethanol separates from it?? Well... the octane rating drops well below 85, which can/will cause engine damage... at a minimum, poor performance and fuel mileage.
What do you suppose happens if the fuel system sucks-up a slug of that separated ethanol and dumps it into your combustion chamber??

...1 cap of isopropyl fixed it that time.

Again... isopropyl alcohol is not the same thing as ethanol, it is also not the same thing as methanol.
Isopropyl alcohol works more as a fuel "dryer"... methanol works more like a fuel "anti-freeze"... ethanol does neither‼
In fact, when it comes to water in gasoline, ethanol does the opposite of isopropyl and methanol.
Ethanol is best reserved for drinkin'... drinkin' isopropyl or methanol will kill you.
*

 

[lone wolf]

"Mixing" and "suspension" are not the same thing.
You can't possibly see the water and alcohol separating from the gas as a good thing?? Really?? You're kiddin'... right??
That's actually the first phase of "phase separation", the second phase is when the water and ethanol separate... once that happens the water does not "mix" back in with the gasoline.
Phase separation does not happen with methanol, that's why it works as a fuel system anti-freeze... that's also why ethanol does not‼

What do you suppose happens to the gasoline when the ethanol separates from it?? Well... the octane rating drops well below 85, which can/will cause engine damage... at a minimum, poor performance and fuel mileage.
What do you suppose happens if the fuel system sucks-up a slug of that separated ethanol and dumps it into your combustion chamber??


Again... isopropyl alcohol is not the same thing as ethanol, it is also not the same thing as methanol.
Isopropyl alcohol works more as a fuel "dryer"... methanol works more like a fuel "anti-freeze"... ethanol does neither‼
In fact, when it comes to water in gasoline, ethanol does the opposite of isopropyl and methanol.
Ethanol is best reserved for drinkin'... drinkin' isopropyl or methanol will kill you.
*

So in NJ I cant get non ethanol gas at any pumps at all. What is your opinion on Avgas. I now use VP in cans at 60.00 for 5 gallons to make 2 cycle mix in the winter because the saws sit so long now.

 

[066blaster]

I'm not saying it's a good thing. I Just think it's helping with gas line freeze. . Maybe it's not??? I still keep my tanks as full as possible when extremely cold out.