Stihl 046 ignition

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I may have posted this before but the problem still isn't fixed: Working on an 046 with no or little spark, was confused at first because starter cover says "ms440" so we assumed it was an 044, found out later it was an 046 so we bought a new module for an 046 and it still doesn't have any spark. Owner wants a new flywheel ( says he tested the kill wire). I ran a bolt alongside the flywheel and it is magnetized at least at that spot. Just wondering if any of you know a reliable way to test one of these half-plastic flywheels? I don't have another to try on the saw or I would do that...I figured maybe I had another bad module, even though it's new.
 
What makes you think it has no or little spark??

That is an odd statement to me, no offense. Either I have spark or I don’t, or maybe it’s inconsistent.

I will say, and maybe this is what your experiencing. First few times I tested spark on saws I may have had a similar thought actually. Till I went in the garage.

I still have not replaced my spark tester nor bulb, I just take the saw in the garage with the door down now. My answer is clear as day in that dark or dim garage.

Outside in the sun with no clouds, hard to tell for certain. This never happened to me on a car in the driveway(maybe the hood provides enough shade on top of the fact a car cranks itself and so one can really watch well), same spark testor.

Hope this helps
 
The saw had little spark with the first coil on it and they didn't see any spark with the new 046 coil. I kinda wish they'd just given it to me to work on rather than having someone else tinker with it first..it's over in their shop rather than in my garage so at this time I'm just ordering parts for them...
 
Tuesday is as soon as I can get to it so I'll see what happens then. In the meantime I don't think I'll buy a flywheel for now. It's even possible the flywheel that's on it now has a broken key..

Even if the key is sheared and the flywheel has shifted there will still be spark made, just at the wrong time for the engine to fire. These electronic modules do need to be tested with the flywheel turning over rapid like, they don`t make good spark at slow revolutions of the flywheel. Turning them with a drill works much better than one trying to pull the recoil with one hand while holding the plug grounded on the cylinder with the other hand.
 
Even if the key is sheared and the flywheel has shifted there will still be spark made, just at the wrong time for the engine to fire. These electronic modules do need to be tested with the flywheel turning over rapid like, they don`t make good spark at slow revolutions of the flywheel. Turning them with a drill works much better than one trying to pull the recoil with one hand while holding the plug grounded on the cylinder with the other hand.
Yeah, I know but I did see spark and the saw still wouldn't fire when fuel was put in the spark plug hole. I wasn't there when they put the 046 new module on it and it had no spark, just took their word for it..I may know a little more about it next Tuesday, assuming wife doesn't have too much work for me then, believe me she's looking!
 
Yeah, I know but I did see spark and the saw still wouldn't fire when fuel was put in the spark plug hole. I wasn't there when they put the 046 new module on it and it had no spark, just took their word for it..I may know a little more about it next Tuesday, assuming wife doesn't have too much work for me then, believe me she's looking!

Believe me I know how difficult it is to help with repairs online and also when one does not have the saw in their possession/hands. A faint spark may fire a plug when out of the cylinder but we know it may not fire under compression. I have started saws like this with the drill option as it seems a stronger spark is generated from a rapid turning flywheel, at least to a point.
Setting the flywheel air gap tighter sometimes provides a stronger spark for a short time. If this is the case then its usual for the module to fail or get weaker over a short period of run time. You say a new module was bought, was it OEM or AM? From a dealer or off the net/eBay? I bought a few OEM parts off line that were duds, they actually were defective OEM parts that had been returned in the original boxes and someone was just trying to clean out/sell off surplus parts.
 
subscribed.. cuz i want to rebuild an 046 someday.. i dont know about electronic modules on 046, but in the older cars where GM first started using electronic ignition modules, when i lost spark, it was always the module, it is very possible to get a bad NEW module.. i bought two new NOS coils for the 08s im rebuilding... secondary coil on one was bad and the primary on the other was bad .. it happens..

i would think that if your getting spark and you put some fuel in there that you would at least get a pop, it may be that the fuel is just to puddled ...try some starting spray to see if you get at least a pop...

like mentioned above if you have a weak spark outside the cylinder , when you pull on it the compression inside the cylinder could actually blow out the spark... i see this happen in 4 cycle engines when turbocharging, sometimes we have to upgrade ignition coils cuz they cant maintain spark under load and high compression scenarios.. i know it sounds crazy
the faster the wheel spins the more spark energy the plug sees, i read that electronic ignitions need more rpm to get good spark, im not sure if thats true...i try to stick with points style saws only if i can help it.

i feel you on working on stuff others have had their hands in, it can be a nightmare. trouble shooting without it in front of you is a difficult thing cuz you never know what was actually done or not done ...i dont see a flywheel magnet going bad..or at least ive never seen it.. the magnets would have to lose their magnetism or maybe even something crazier like pole inversion which is just super far fetched..unless its one of those years when the earths north and south pole invert LOLOLOL

dang it, i was hoping the 046 was a points style ignition cuz i prefer that over electronic.. uggg i may not want to do the 046 after all.
 
Believe me I know how difficult it is to help with repairs online and also when one does not have the saw in their possession/hands. A faint spark may fire a plug when out of the cylinder but we know it may not fire under compression. I have started saws like this with the drill option as it seems a stronger spark is generated from a rapid turning flywheel, at least to a point.
Setting the flywheel air gap tighter sometimes provides a stronger spark for a short time. If this is the case then its usual for the module to fail or get weaker over a short period of run time. You say a new module was bought, was it OEM or AM? From a dealer or off the net/eBay? I bought a few OEM parts off line that were duds, they actually were defective OEM parts that had been returned in the original boxes and someone was just trying to clean out/sell off surplus parts.
This was an AM coil bought on ebay. I've had pretty good luck with them in the past but I'm sure they've got a few duds mixed in. I read on here that the oem flywheels hardly ever go bad so that's why I was leaning toward maybe a bad module or kill switch shorted to ground. If they'll let me take it home and work on it, along with the extra parts I might be able to do them some good.
 
subscribed.. cuz i want to rebuild an 046 someday.. i dont know about electronic modules on 046, but in the older cars where GM first started using electronic ignition modules, when i lost spark, it was always the module, it is very possible to get a bad NEW module.. i bought two new NOS coils for the 08s im rebuilding... secondary coil on one was bad and the primary on the other was bad .. it happens..

i would think that if your getting spark and you put some fuel in there that you would at least get a pop, it may be that the fuel is just to puddled ...try some starting spray to see if you get at least a pop...

like mentioned above if you have a weak spark outside the cylinder , when you pull on it the compression inside the cylinder could actually blow out the spark... i see this happen in 4 cycle engines when turbocharging, sometimes we have to upgrade ignition coils cuz they cant maintain spark under load and high compression scenarios.. i know it sounds crazy
the faster the wheel spins the more spark energy the plug sees, i read that electronic ignitions need more rpm to get good spark, im not sure if thats true...i try to stick with points style saws only if i can help it.

i feel you on working on stuff others have had their hands in, it can be a nightmare. trouble shooting without it in front of you is a difficult thing cuz you never know what was actually done or not done ...i dont see a flywheel magnet going bad..or at least ive never seen it.. the magnets would have to lose their magnetism or maybe even something crazier like pole inversion which is just super far fetched..unless its one of those years when the earths north and south pole invert LOLOLOL

dang it, i was hoping the 046 was a points style ignition cuz i prefer that over electronic.. uggg i may not want to do the 046 after all.
Pretty difficult to find a modern saw with points. Stihl went to electronics around 40 or so years ago...
 
This was an AM coil bought on ebay. I've had pretty good luck with them in the past but I'm sure they've got a few duds mixed in. I read on here that the oem flywheels hardly ever go bad so that's why I was leaning toward maybe a bad module or kill switch shorted to ground. If they'll let me take it home and work on it, along with the extra parts I might be able to do them some good.

Could be something real simple like a wire grounding, or the coil not having a ground to case/cyl.

Why go aftermarket as many OEM coils should fit that unless a dogleg coil
 
i forgot to mention...i had weak spark on one of my dads 046.. it turned out to be a hairline crack on the flywheel magnet, this will definitely cause weak spark as well as cause problems with EM noise that will make the module poop the bed...so it could be the flywheel, i retract my earlier statement
 
Pretty difficult to find a modern saw with points. Stihl went to electronics around 40 or so years ago...
yes sir i understand... but on the good side..once the saw is running correctly with the modern ignition systems they are pretty solid and trouble free..i just hate the not being able to play with timing (as much) part

i was hoping since the 046 was kinda old it was old enough for breaker controlled ignition
 
i forgot to mention...i had weak spark on one of my dads 046.. it turned out to be a hairline crack on the flywheel magnet, this will definitely cause weak spark as well as cause problems with EM noise that will make the module poop the bed...so it could be the flywheel, i retract my earlier statement
Well, as it turns out, a vendor on ebay sent me a message that he's coming down on his price of a oem 046 flywheel so I went ahead and bought it. The owner of the saw will reimburse me my money even if it isn't the culprit because he told me to order it last Friday...
 

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