Tulip Poplar with hollow base

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sps46

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I have this very large mature tulip poplar on my property. We thought it was in the county right of way (it touches a county road) but they informed me that it is my problem. If it fell down at the right angle it would take out my house.

It has a big hole right at the base. Not sure what from. Looks old. Tree is not dead. It is budding now and leafs out fully.

Wondering if this is something I should be looking to remove urgently. My instinct says yes but I don't know anything about large trees like this. Trying to get someone out here to give me a professional opinion has been very difficult.

Opinions welcome. Thank you!


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The tree was a twin, how deep into the stump is the cavity?
Interesting. I will try to get better idea of that with some measurements when I have daylight tmrw. It gets in there though. It's definitely not a surface level thing.

If there was a twin it makes me think the county took it down at some point because the twin would have been growing right over/into the road.


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That close to a road its hard to believe its NOT in the county's right of way. Know any surveyors? I would want a second opinion in this kinda situation.

Also that hole looks bad.
Yeah survey pins are in the middle of the road. Apparently county just has road maintenance rights. I own the land.
 
Is that your house in black ground behind the guard rail? In most communities if any part of the stump is in the right of way they will take responsibility. It appears by the guard rail location you have a good case it's not your issue.
 
Is that your house in black ground behind the guard rail? In most communities if any part of the stump is in the right of way they will take responsibility. It appears by the guard rail location you have a good case it's not your issue.
Already took it to the top with the County Survey Division. They tell me I am the sole owner of the land and the county only possesses maintenance rights to the road. My survey pins are dropped right in the middle of the road.

The guardrail location made me very suspect too. I would have to get the County to close the road for work to even take place.
 
Already took it to the top with the County Survey Division. They tell me I am the sole owner of the land and the county only possesses maintenance rights to the road. My survey pins are dropped right in the middle of the road.

The guardrail location made me very suspect too. I would have to get the County to close the road for work to even take place.
That is exactly how a right of way or easement works. What is happening is they are trying to exercise their right of access and maintenance without acknowledging any responsibility... not as uncommon as you would think. Rural county, limited budget, bureaucratic mindset, unofficial policy that has evolved over time, the last 50 guys that got that answer believed it and saved the County a fortune.
Does the County mow the right of way or perform any other maintenance?
 
That is exactly how a right of way or easement works. What is happening is they are trying to exercise their right of access and maintenance without acknowledging any responsibility... not as uncommon as you would think. Rural county, limited budget, bureaucratic mindset, unofficial policy that has evolved over time, the last 50 guys that got that answer believed it and saved the County a fortune.
Does the County mow the right of way or perform any other maintenance?
Nah there is no mowing up there. It's forested. Power Company does tree work around their lines. That's the only work I ever see up there.

Road is cut into a hillside in that area basically.

I was in contact with the Chief Surveyor for the County. It's a metropolitan County but this particular road is rural in nature for sure. It's a very old little road...couple centuries old. We're in a river valley down here and our little neighborhood was home to early colonial era industry. The property lines are wonky in places.
 
Is there any other direction to fell the tree other than across the road? The tree looks pretty big. If it falls toward the lean side/prevailing wind direction will it damage anything?
 
That close to a road its hard to believe its NOT in the county's right of way. Know any surveyors? I would want a second opinion in this kinda situation.

Also that hole looks bad.
I lost some young pines I'd planted after carefully measuring the right distance from the center of the road - turns out the road was on the far edge of where the right of way was supposed to be... grrr... maybe the case with this one? (Or they just don't want to screw with it...)
 
Is there any other direction to fell the tree other than across the road? The tree looks pretty big. If it falls toward the lean side/prevailing wind direction will it damage anything?
If it falls away from the road (and down the embankment) it could easily fall on my house. If it falls across the road it will land on a hillside but will take down power lines.

I'm going to have to have a bucket or climber take it down piece by piece. If I can even get someone to work on it. There is no shortage of work around here and this is the kind of job nobody seems to want. Especially since it would require closing a county road and the tree is massive.

I just had some big trees in this area taken down a few months ago. Took me a year and 8 site visits from different outfits to get someone to even return an estimate.
 
If it was me, and you said you checked with the supervisor. But, many county ROW's are measured so many feet from the center of the road out towards the shoulder, both directions. Maybe the measurement, if it exists, is taken starting from the markers. There must be a document on record at the county court house that states it in writing if that's the case. Might be worth some time checking into it.
 
If it was me, and you said you checked with the supervisor. But, many county ROW's are measured so many feet from the center of the road out towards the shoulder, both directions. Maybe the measurement, if it exists, is taken starting from the markers. There must be a document on record at the county court house that states it in writing if that's the case. Might be worth some time checking into it.
Also a good way to get your drive plowed in every snowstorm in a small county, unfortunately.
 
If it was me, and you said you checked with the supervisor. But, many county ROW's are measured so many feet from the center of the road out towards the shoulder, both directions. Maybe the measurement, if it exists, is taken starting from the markers. There must be a document on record at the county court house that states it in writing if that's the case. Might be worth some time checking into it.
All that should be specified in the property deed.
They can't just build a public road on private property.....Have the guy put it in writing on an official letterhead that you are the sole owner of the property and responsible for the property. Then, when you close your road to remove the tree and the county officials show up to find out why their road is closed, you can hand them the bill...
If they are claiming access rights for maintenance purposes, they are responsible for maintaining the road. That maintenance includes hazardous trees. Have a hazardous tree evaluation done and have a copy sent by certified mail to whoever maintains the road. That way they either will do something to avoid future liability exposure, or, if they do nothing, you can prove in court that they knew there was a problem if it falls. I wouldn't touch that tree without documentation from the county stating that you are the owner of the property, and have full authority to act on your own behalf as the owner to do whatever is necessary to remove the tree safely, including closing the road.
Take a close look at whatever markers are in the road. If they are permanent geodetic type brass pins, they should have some sort of identification stamped into them. Municipalities don't generally have those placed for private property. They are there to identify the center line of the municipal right-of-way, and there should be records that specify the distance from the centerline of the roadway to the edge of the right-of-way. Generally there is no set distance, just so many feet from point A. It could be 100 feet, it could be 1 foot, depending on how the property was parceled out and when the road was built. The town, county or state can't place guardrail installations on private property for liability reasons, they are required to be in the public right-of-way. So, being that the tree is right in front of the guard rail installation, its in their right-of-way, whether they like it or not.
By the way, that is an illegal guardrail installation. The guard rail should pass to the outside of the tree, so any car that might strike it would be directed around the tree, avoiding a potentially serious impact. Also, Federal standards mandate a proper attenuator unit be attached to any elevated termination of a guardrail installation to prevent the end of the rail from impaling any vehicle that might strike it head on.
 
Thanks for your thoughts arathol. I've been thinking about the exact same thing regarding the guardrail. If I am the sole owner of that land then why did they install a guardrail on it? I also mentioned the fact that the guardrail does not go in front of the tree and that a truck sticking it could knock it down to the Chief Surveyor.

I do already have an email from the Chief Surveyor of the County stating that I am the sole owner of the land (including the land that the half of the road closest to me traverses). The reason the Chief Surveyor even got involved is because the County Arborist sent him the satellite imagery to determine if the tree was his problem or not. I have that email chain.

Good news is I do have the owner of the tree company that did my work in January coming out next week to look at it. Is a "Hazardous Tree Report" something I would get independent from a tree company?
 
Good news is I do have the owner of the tree company that did my work in January coming out next week to look at it. Is a "Hazardous Tree Report" something I would get independent from a tree company?
That is best done by a licensed arborist with specific training. A letter from some guy who owns a tree company doesn't carry a lot of weight. A legal document from a person who is certified and can do the proper testing and evaluation can be legally binding. In other words, once they are notified by a certified hazardous tree evaluation specialist that the tree is a problem, it becomes a legal exposure to the municipality should something happen. If the tree should fall and damage something or cause any injury without such notification they will call it an act of God and there will be no recourse. Once notification is made, they won't have that to fall back on and can be held responsibly for any and all damages.
 
They are certified. I will inquire with them about whether or not that is something they can assist with.

Thanks again arathol.
 

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