Hickory Question

[goof008]

I was out at the hunting grounds this weekend and had a few tree questions. We had some trespassers on dirt bikes tear up the place, I mean they made signs and stapled them to the trees fro turns and everything. Anyway, my buddies dad grabbed a chainsaw and started dropping trees along the path they carved thru the property. I watched and he used mostly dead ash trees or live maples. But there was one tree I had no idea what it was. It was smooth barked, but had a hickory looking leaf. He dropped a couple of those. I asked what it was and he said "oh, that's just a pig nosed hickory" like it was not a good tree. I know he wouldn't just drop a shag-bark like that.
Is that tree not that good?
I figured any hickory has to be good, or is more like a silver maple is a maple, but not a good one?
He is a bit of a tree snob, he only burns red oak, about 3-4 face cords a year in the fireplace...not for heat.
Anyway, I was just curious about it, because there was a lot of it out there.

 

[wdchuck]

HIckory grows sloooooooow, that's why it is so hard, and so good for so much.
Cutting the dead trees down was a good idea, and maybe post some signs and get in touch with someone who resides in the area to let you know when there is unwanted company.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Your not going to stop them by blocking the trail, their just going to make another one or enjoy the challenge of hopping them,that is if they dont crash into one and get hurt.

You can also be sued for what your doing, why not just string up cables at about throat height and decapitate them? If I were you, I would tell dad to not only stop killing trees, but to find another way of venting his frustration.



Also tell him that the local wildlife dosent care if they live in a Pignut Hickory, Mockernut Hickory or a Shagbark.





His wood sence prefering oaks to hickorys makes as much sence as intentionally trying to hurt someones kid while their riding their Dirt Bike.......:monkey:



.

 

[habanero]

...makes as much sence as intentionally trying to hurt someones kid while their riding their Dirt Bike.......:monkey:

.

I don't mean to derail the thread, but perhaps if someone's kid was riding on someone's own property, someone's kid wouldn't be exposed to intentional injury. Just a thought...

As to the thread at hand, there are many types of hickory, and to my knowledge all have quite similar burning characteristics. The only real difference among the various varieties that I know of is the nut quality (aside from the obvious cosmetic differences).

 

[Al Smith]

Some people call them pignut hickory,some call it bitter nut.It like all hickory trees are of the pecan species.I believe the pecan is the hardest followed by shag bark,shell bark then the bitter nut.The shag and shell bark have tasty nuts but the bitternut is just that,bitter.

Typically the trees look like an oak or walnut at times on the bark but farther up the tree,with age,the bark will flay off like a shagbark.The picture is a 90 foot bitternut in my woods

 

[goof008]

Your not going to stop them by blocking the trail, their just going to make another one or enjoy the challenge of hopping them,that is if they dont crash into one and get hurt.

You can also be sued for what your doing, why not just string up cables at about throat height and decapitate them? If I were you, I would tell dad to not only stop killing trees, but to find another way of venting his frustration.



Also tell him that the local wildlife dosent care if they live in a Pignut Hickory, Mockernut Hickory or a Shagbark.





His wood sense prefering oaks to hickorys makes as much sence as intentionally trying to hurt someones kid while their riding their Dirt Bike.......:monkey:



.

The property line is posted every year. There is no confusion where the property line is. The wire at neck level was though of and may be used if the trees and a visit to the police doesn't solve it.
As for "kids" doing it, not a chance, these are grown adults using signage and caution tape to mark corners and they had to use something to cut the undergrowth, like a DR mower or brush hog. This isn't a little kid making one track, this is a racing circuit brought off of their 150 acres and on to the property we hunt, totaling about a mile on our property. The trees weren't dropped around a blind corner, they were dropped along the property line, and along the rest of the trail as my BUDDIES dad saw fit.
I didn't say anything about the wildlife caring about what type of hickory it was, it was my own curiosity.
A month of this type of riding will change the deer habits, and as their trail goes right by 2 of my favorite bow stands, it's my right to be frustrated.

And he prefers to use red oak for the aroma. It's a personal preference, like Husky or Stihl, and he is entitled to it. Like I said in the original post, he doesn't heat with it, just a fire on the weekend.

Al, thanks for answering my question...I think come winter, I'll take a bunch of the dead ash, then some of the bitternut hickory.

 

[Works4me]

Pignut

*

Not sure if what I call a pignut is correct. They have a thicker shell and are harder to crack but they are not bitter at all. Maybe someone here can enlightnen me as I have learned much from the peoiple here.

*
:monkey:

 

[goof008]

I was told that pignut is bitter and has a thinner shell than shag bark.

 

[Mad Professor]

When I had problems like this I cleared all the brush on the edges of the fields (something I planned to do anyway) . Then dragged huge piles of brush with the tractor using a chain into "paths" that had been cut. The brush contained lots of thorny apple and other nasty stuff, the MC riders were too lazy to deal with this.

I'd also talk to LE and inform them of the problem. I have went as far as to track down the bikes and go right up to the houses they came from, explain I know who they are, LE now knows who they are, and if they come back again they will get a summons.

 

[Works4me]

I was told that pignut is bitter and has a thinner shell than shag bark.

Your info is correct

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/DENDRO/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=19

 

[Al Smith]

It may be annoying to have people become a nuisance riding trail bikes and snow sleds across your happy hunting grounds but don't get hastey.

I personally would hate to live with the thought that I had caused a fatality or serious injury to a person because of such shenanagans.

For what it's worth some local yokel several years back caused the death of a sledder by stretching a barbed wire at kneck level .In addition to a little trip to the Ohio state pen he also got a sizeable wrongfull death cival suite.

 

[goof008]

The aim isn't to hurt anyone, and nothing was set to hurt someone, but to be so cluttered they stop trying to get thru it. The land that the bikes are coming off of is not lived on, like the land we hunt. It is vacant land, some of ours is leased to a farmer, and there are no houses to walk up to and let them know, otherwise they would have gotten a visit. I think they are done for the year, as some of the undergrowth they cut is coming back. We just want them to not do it again next year.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

The aim isn't to hurt anyone, .

What the aim is and what the final outcome will be may vary widely.


Ilke it or not, if what was done hurts someone the landowner will be held liable as well as the person who acted on his behalf.



The fact that you even thought about stringing wire to cause injury is unfathomable and disgusting IMO, it basically constitutes premedated murder, tresspassing or not.



And now that you have posted this on the internet, just makes me shake my head in wonder. If I were you, having voiced your plan to commit murder on someone who is causing what amounts to a nuisence, I would clear the obstacles and wave at these guys as they ride by.



You may not like it, but youll like sharing a cell with "Bubba" much less.



Besides, the fight you and others have is not with the riders, but with your state.




Ill expand on this later, right now I have to go riding.




.



.

 

[computeruser]

Gotta agree with the wire. But the use of natural materials to create natural barriers - downed trees, brush piles, etc., seems perfectly appropriate.

One of the pesky problems with maintaining recreational land is this very problem - you're not there to police it as you would with the land surrounding your residence. I think that a combination of conspicuous natural barriers and no trespassing signage is about all you can reasonably do to discourage unauthorized use.

 

[habanero]

So RBW, are you proposing there is no such thing as personal property and that all property should be free for anyone to use?

Where I come from, we respect other people's property and don't infringe upon it unless absolutely necessary (say a wounded deer crosses a fence, few would quarrel with the hunter crossing the fence to put the deer out of its suffering and collect the carcass).

Now I'm not going to advocate purposely stringing hidden wire around a property at all. But say I build a fence on my property for the purposes of creating a horse pasture. Then some snowmobiler gets hurt or killed by running into that fence on my property. By your argument, I'm liable for that death. Sounds like liberal BS to me...

 

[rguseman]

I agree that the idea of stringing a wire is a bad one and I am hoping it was said in frustration. That being said, I couldn't disagree with RBW more. Computeruser is right regarding natural barrier. I highly doubt you would find many juries that would side with the trespasser and not the landowner especially where the trespass is so egregious that the trespasser alters property with a brushmower, posting signs etc. In many states, WI is one of them, the landowner has civil immunity if an individual is injured on the landowner's property if they are engaged in a recreational activity.

I also find it hypocritcal for RBW to criticize the cutting down of trees and brush because of the wildlife but see no problem with bikes tearing through that same habitat.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

So RBW, are you proposing there is no such thing as personal property and that all property should be free for anyone to use?

Is that what I said?


I thought I said that purposefully creating a dangerous situation towards anyone, for any reason was extremely foolish bordering on stupid, and in cases like this most likely criminal.

Where I come from, we respect other people's property and don't infringe upon it unless absolutely necessary (say a wounded deer crosses a fence, few would quarrel with the hunter crossing the fence to put the deer out of its suffering and collect the carcass).

Thats pretty much standard everywhere, isint it?

Now I'm not going to advocate purposely stringing hidden wire around a property at all. But say I build a fence on my property for the purposes of creating a horse pasture. Then some snowmobiler gets hurt or killed by running into that fence on my property. By your argument, I'm liable for that death. Sounds like liberal BS to me...

Don't ever call me a liberal.


Besides putting words in my mouth, (I never mentioned a pre existing structure, try to follow along.....) your confusing the deliberate act of intending harm towards another (the Biker/Snowmobiler) by stringing wire, felling trees, digging tank traps etc. with assembling a fenced in area meant to hold your livestock?


You cant see the difference here?






A coworkers nephew was nearly decapitated and did loose his jaw while riding in the pines about 10yrs ago. Him and some buddies were riding quads and an adjacent land owner THOUGHT they were on his land and went and strung up a nylon cord across the trail.


The court ruled that this was not proper recourse, but an intentional criminal act. The kid (he was 16 at the time) nearly died from infection, lost three fingers and now has a non functioning jaw (he cant chew solid food) and has trouble swallowing liquids without choking.



I believe the land owner was charged with attempted murder, but plead no contest to a lesser charge of aggravated assault with intent to maim.


He served 3yrs of a 5yr sentence.


The only thing that saved him from a longer sentence or being convicted of attempted murder was that he immediately came forth and confessed and also put some of his possessions up for sale to pay the family's medical bills.




The sad and frightening part of this is that people come off as if they have some kind of right perform this type of Vigilantism because they own property.



.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

I agree that the idea of stringing a wire is a bad one and I am hoping it was said in frustration. That being said, I couldn't disagree with RBW more. Computeruser is right regarding natural barrier. I highly doubt you would find many juries that would side with the trespasser and not the landowner especially where the trespass is so egregious that the trespasser alters property with a brushmower, posting signs etc. In many states, WI is one of them, the landowner has civil immunity if an individual is injured on the landowner's property if they are engaged in a recreational activity.

I also find it hypocritcal for RBW to criticize the cutting down of trees and brush because of the wildlife but see no problem with bikes tearing through that same habitat.

Your profile says you are an attorney?



What do you handle, divorce?


""In many states, WI is one of them, the landowner has civil immunity if an individual is injured on the landowner's property if they are engaged in a recreational activity.""



So your saying that if you were to garrote someone who is riding on your land and kill them it would just be hunky Dory?



WTF is that?


BS is what that is!



If their on your land and hurt themselves, they hurt themselves, period.



If you know they utilize that area and set out to harm them, you will be found guilty of something, take it to the bank.




Best bet is that if people are riding illeagally, report it to the authorities.


.

 

[Andyshine77]

Stringing up a rope or wire is not an acceptable thing to do.Blocking the path with trees or brush is however reasonable, it is your property after all.

 

[ropensaddle]

Some people call them pignut hickory,some call it bitter nut.It like all hickory trees are of the pecan species.I believe the pecan is the hardest followed by shag bark,shell bark then the bitter nut.The shag and shell bark have tasty nuts but the bitternut is just that,bitter.

Typically the trees look like an oak or walnut at times on the bark but farther up the tree,with age,the bark will flay off like a shagbark.The picture is a 90 foot bitternut in my woods

They are all walnut species not pecan just so you know!