Scrounging Firewood (and other stuff)

[rarefish383]

why wouldn't you cut straight in line the "vee" of your face cut? Most go a tad higher for some reason, but truthfully if you ever watch pro fellers it's always right in line with the notch. Seen some other interesting methods, but never tried them.

4 generations and 50 years we always cut level into the notch, we always leave wood holding, If you cut through the notch, there is no hinge, and the tree can twist, especially with a slight breeze and no tag line.

 

[rarefish383]

I didn't see the tree or notch and was not commenting on it. Just saying what we have done for four generations.

 

[mountainguyed67]

 

[LondonNeil]

My cousin and I just had an Interesting conversation about storage of gas equipment. He has his pilots license and Flys pretty frequently, so has ample supplies of av gas around. He typically runs non ethonal or av gas in all his small gas powered equipment. During storage he runs them all dry. I'm no fan of the lead in av gas so I refuse to run it in my equipment, but I have switched to non ethonal for storage over winter. On a few occasions I've thought about (thinking weed wacker and rotatiller) getting some canned fuel running them out of normal gas and then running some can fuel through them. Now I don't typically have fuel system issues either so it may be a moot point.

lead free aviation fuel is around, no idea if its common yet. something like 101UL its called. btw the ron uses a different scale, 101 aviation is something like 110 road ron i think.

I have a family friend that's a logger, he's taught me a lot about felling, most of which is keeping a nice but end and the stump low. Wood loss is a big no, no. So no open face cuts and he gets pretty cranky when you face and back cut don't line up.
In practice I try to line them up, but get a tad high from time to time, however I don't understand why or how a higher back cut would prevent the tree from sliding off the back of the stump. (?) Don't really make sense. You hinge wood keeps it from sliding back till it breaks, and if you have bounce back a slightly higher back cut isn't gonna stop it.

i thought that was probably why no step, but wasn't sure. why the face cut that way up? if the other way up but lower it would waste no more wood and allow for a higher back cut...no? (remember,ive never felled a tree so am a youtube know it all )

 

[LondonNeil]

like in that diagram above

 

[rarefish383]

I had to go back and look at the notch. We don't use the Humbolt notch, other than that a pretty dang nice back cut. On typical East Coast hardwood in the 100' range and 30"-36" we liked to leave about a 4' hinge. Of course in a residential setting we would have it all topped and and dropping a 30' to 50' stem with a tag line on it, it could be a mutha to pull over.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

why wouldn't you cut straight in line the "vee" of your face cut? Most go a tad higher for some reason, but truthfully if you ever watch pro fellers it's always right in line with the notch. Seen some other interesting methods, but never tried them.

The reason for making your back cut flush with the top cut in a Humboldt face or flush with the bottom cut in a conventional face when cutting saw logs is because it Ieavs a flusher end of a saw log for less triming. To save production time. This is typically only done when droping timber into a good clearing out in front of the intended direction of the fall or "lead" if you will. With no other standing merchantable, non merchantable, defective timber, or snags out in front of the fall. If the area of your lead is completely clear. There is no possiblity of the tree brushing into another standing tree thus possibly causing the falling tree to slide back off the stump twords the Faller. If your timber is falling into or twords other standing. The higher back cut creates a stop. In case of the tree brushing back.

In short back cuts are cut flush with face cuts when leading into big clearings because it's perfectly safe and saves the cutter production time from not having to "trim the butt" like you would if the butt has a safty step. Like I mentioned earlier. When leading into other standing. A safty step should be used.

Keep in mind! Often a lot of the safty step can break off when using a swinging Dutchman with a conventional face or Humboldt if brushing into other standing timber!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!

 

[farmer steve]

lead free aviation fuel is around, no idea if its common yet. something like 101UL its called. btw the ron uses a different scale, 101 aviation is something like 110 road ron i think.

i thought that was probably why no step, but wasn't sure. why the face cut that way up? if the other way up but lower it would waste no more wood and allow for a higher back cut...no? (remember,ive never felled a tree so am a youtube know it all )

I think you should change your name to the London logger. Evening Neil.

 

[Philbert]

Raising the back cut leaves a step, referred to as a ‘stump shot’. It reduces the likelihood of the cut base of the falling tree slipping backwards when falling.

Philbert

 

[rarefish383]

lead free aviation fuel is around, no idea if its common yet. something like 101UL its called. btw the ron uses a different scale, 101 aviation is something like 110 road ron i think.

i thought that was probably why no step, but wasn't sure. why the face cut that way up? if the other way up but lower it would waste no more wood and allow for a higher back cut...no? (remember,ive never felled a tree so am a youtube know it all )

Yes, but you are talking in a logging situation. Valley used to always give me hell if I posted a pic with a perfect notch, but 3' high. He said they were required to cut their stumps 8" or less. In a residential setting, we do ALL of the work and come back and flush cut the stumps last to keep from dulling a saw when it was still needed. The stump grinder was coming in behind us, and no sense in making a stump higher than necessary for him, or too low, and dulling the saws. We usually had one saw on the truck for flushing stumps, often a Super 1050 with a 36" bar.

 

[rarefish383]

I should read a whole post before replying. I don't know why, but all the farmers in our area do the high back cut thing, and never use tag lines. They have more trees come over backward than you want to think about. What happens is, since they don't have a lean, or a tag line, they cut the hinge through. Then a slight wind pushes the tree backwards, closes up that high, down ward wedge, and pushes the butt of the tree right off the front of the stump, into the ground, then it comes right back at them. Lots of farmers get killed that way.

 

[ValleyForge]

theres a good hinge there, it just looks small as the tree is big

Oh I agree….I was wondering why he was questioning it….we are on the same page….

 

[ValleyForge]

Holding wood = hinge.

Was there something wrong with it?

 

[rarefish383]

The reason for making your back cut flush with the top cut in a Humboldt face or flush with the bottom cut in a conventional face when cutting saw logs is because it Ieavs a flusher end of a saw log for less triming. To save production time. This is typically only done when droping timber into a good clearing out in front of the intended direction of the fall or "lead" if you will. With no other standing merchantable, non merchantable, defective timber, or snags out in front of the fall. If the area of your lead is completely clear. There is no possiblity of the tree brushing into another standing tree thus possibly causing the falling tree to slide back off the stump twords the Faller. If your timber is falling into or twords other standing. The higher back cut creates a stop. In case of the tree brushing back.

In short back cuts are cut flush with face cuts when leading into big clearings because it's perfectly safe and saves the cutter production time from not having to "trim the butt" like you would if the butt has a safty step. Like I said when leading into other standing. A safty step should be used. Keep in mind! Often a lot of the safty step can break off when using a swinging Dutchman and brushing into other standing timber!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!

Good description, and matches the pic above. The high, or what we call, the farmer cut, is where they start a foot or more higher than their face cut and come down at a steep angle, often meeting their wedge and completely cutting the hinge through. It makes a ramp that shoots the front of the log forward, often several feet. Not the step you guys are describing.

 

[ValleyForge]

View attachment 994226

She’s isn’t using a convention cut however….

 

[Kodiak Kid]

why wouldn't you cut straight in line the "vee" of your face cut? Most go a tad higher for some reason, but truthfully if you ever watch pro fellers it's always right in line with the notch. Seen some other interesting methods, but never tried them.

The reason for making your back cut flush with the top cut in a Humboldt face or flush with the bottom cut in a conventional face when cutting saw logs is because it Ieavs a flusher end of a saw log for less triming. To save production time. This is typically only done when droping timber into a good clearing out in front of the intended direction of the fall or "lead" if you will. With no other standing merchantable, non merchantable, defective timber, or snags out in front of the fall. If the area of your lead is completely clear. There is no possiblity of the tree brushing into another standing tree thus possibly causing the falling tree to slide back off the stump twords the Faller. If your timber is falling into or twords other standing. The higher back cut creates a stop. In case of the tree brushing back.

In short back cuts are cut flush with face cuts when leading into big clearings because it's perfectly safe and saves the cutter production time from not having to "trim the butt" like you would if the butt has a safty step. Like I said. When leading into other standing. A safty step should be used. Keep in mind! Often a lot of the safty step can break off when using a swinging Dutchman and brushing into other standing timber!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!

 

[Kodiak Kid]

Uh, the back cut is too low. Where’s the holding wood? She doesn’t get a passing grade on this cut.

The hinge is the holding wood! The difference in levels of the face cut and back cut have nothing to do with holding wood as long as there is no unintentional bypass cut in the face creating a "full face" dutchman or "hard" dutchman. You immediately started relieving "holding wood" once you start your first face cut up until your deep into you back cut and closing in on your hinge. The "hinge" is the last of your holding wood. "Holding wood" Holds the tree in place.

Now, she is cutting a level stump but her hinge is still "holding" the tree.

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!

 

[rarefish383]

Since I mentioned Valley, I didn't want ValleyForge to think I meant him. We used to have a member, Valley Firewood up in Alaska. He changed his name to ChoppyChoppy. I just did a search and he hasn't been seen in a year. I hope all is well, I think he was a good guy. Sometimes he would pluck my very last nerve, like your best friend can do that. A homeowner would post a legitimate question like, "how long will it take to split a cord of wood with a Harbor Freight electric splitter". Several people would give answers who had used little electrics, or say just get a small hydraulic. Then Valley would say, "well, the conveyor on my processor holds 2 cord just setting on it, and I can load a 53 foot semi in half an hour, ***** ". You would just laugh and say, thanks Valley, that helped. All I can say is, I have a bunch of high Spruce stumps, till I'm finished at my daughters place.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

I have a family friend that's a logger, he's taught me a lot about felling, most of which is keeping a nice but end and the stump low. Wood loss is a big no, no. So no open face cuts and he gets pretty cranky when you face and back cut don't line up.
In practice I try to line them up, but get a tad high from time to time, however I don't understand why or how a higher back cut would prevent the tree from sliding off the back of the stump. (?) Don't really make sense. You hinge wood keeps it from sliding back till it breaks, and if you have bounce back a slightly higher back cut isn't gonna stop it.

Yes and no. The tree can flex and bounce off the stump when loading up with spring into another tree or it may not all depending on size of both trees, angles at collision, and distance between fall tree and standing tree. A lot of variables involved. A higher back cut isn't 100% insurance against the tree shooting back, but it often dose prevent it! It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!

 

[ValleyForge]

Yes and no. The tree can flex and bounce off the stump when loading up with spring into another tree or it may not all depending on size of both trees, angles at collision, and distance between fall tree and standing tree. A lot of variables involved. A higher back cut isn't 100% insurance against the tree shooting back, but it often dose prevent it! It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!View attachment 994239

Who was the artist? Lol