Two-Stroke Oils: All the Same?

[schreib69]

More important than which oil you choose, is learning to tune your saw properly. Plenty more saws are killed by a bad tune, than are killed by running the wrong two stroke oil. Lots of videos on YT.

Interesting. Care to summarize what are top three factors most important to tuning? I just bought a Stihl 461.

 

[schreib69]

Any quality synthetic 2 stroke oil mixed at 40:1 and non ethanol gasoline.

why not 50:1 per Stihl's OEM spec?

 

[skeet88]

why not 50:1 per Stihl's OEM spec?

40:1 gives a little insurance it will have plenty of oil. Then a proper tune like @OM617YOTA suggests. Be Safe!

 

[schreib69]

I’ll bite!

Trying Amsoil saber at that ratio this year. Obviously no results to report yet, but there’s more than a few folks who are running this way.

The saw manufacturer specifies an oil ratio based on a combination of the EPA requirements and what they have to assume is the worst oil saws are likely to see, and assuming people are going to run lean (ie: not fulling pouring the bottle out, so, say, 60:1).

Decades past, saw makers needed to specify running richer ratios because the oil sucked, less data was available on what would ruin a saw or how to build a saw, and tolerances were less exact.

So all that boils down to: follow the directions on the BOTTLE, not on the SAW.
Stihl/Husky/Echo etc CAN’T put 100:1 on their saw because they know everyone is not going to be using amsoil or similar products. Similarly, Stihl/Husky oil says 50:1 because you CAN’T run 100:1 with that product without ruining your saw.

hmmm. So, are you running, say Stihl saws at 100:1? . . . and, if so, have you checked over a long period of time the wear on pistons buy pulling the muffler and photographing the cyliinder face at some interval or months or years?
I use Stihl saws and, apparently this terrible(!) Stihl oil at 50:1 that everyone is ragging on; cut lots of oaks on my property each year, but maybe not enough to see a problem. . . Love to know what to look for as typical signals my saw should be running some OTHER oil.

 

[North by Northwest]

Interesting. Care to summarize what are top three factors most important to tuning? I just bought a Stihl 461.

Full tank of fresh fuel & mix , new spark plug properly gapped , clean air & fuel filter . Then tune until it 4 strokes out of the cut & clears up in the cut . Depending on you hearing a tach can help !

 

[North by Northwest]

why not 50:1 per Stihl's OEM spec?

You can run 50:1 with quality oil , tune is more important . As Skeet mentioned 40:1 gives you room for error which is quite correct !

 

[North by Northwest]

hmmm. So, are you running, say Stihl saws at 100:1? . . . and, if so, have you checked over a long period of time the wear on pistons buy pulling the muffler and photographing the cyliinder face at some interval or months or years?
I use Stihl saws and, apparently this terrible(!) Stihl oil at 50:1 that everyone is ragging on; cut lots of oaks on my property each year, but maybe not enough to see a problem. . . Love to know what to look for as typical signals my saw should be running some OTHER oil.

Ultra was never intended for 2 cycle saws rather 4-mix trimmers & blowers !

 

[schreib69]

That's exactly it.
That and I know what it costs to make a gallon of alkylate. It's not near $27 per gallon. In fact it's under $5 a gallon.

Well, at a $20/ gal premium over reg fuel I wonder how long it will take to pay for preventing a ruined engine from, say 2x or 3x the OEM's gasil ratio in the gas at all??! (Because THAT is what it will take to hash an engine, not using Stihl Ultra or other non-"acceptable" oil being mentioned.)

SO, let's calculate!
-- say a new Stihl saw costs $1000 and you put 10 gal/yr through it AND you use this woooonnndderful mixed gas: 10 gal/yr x $20 extra each gallon = $200 out of your pocket ea yr more.
-- So, you can look at it this way: you pay $200/yr to put off buying a new saw in 5 yrs

On the other hand, I would guess nearly 100% of saw owners using the, now infamous, Stihl Ultra at a 50:1 ratio find their saws last at least 10 years. (My 362 has -- pristine cylinder face and light tan plug; my 025C is still running at 25+ yrs old.)

I can now rationalize I have saved $2000 on the 362 over 10 years and much more with the 025C.

 

[North by Northwest]

Well, at a $20/ gal premium over reg fuel I wonder how long it will take to pay for preventing a ruined engine from, say 2x or 3x the OEM's gasil ratio in the gas at all??! (Because THAT is what it will take to hash an engine, not using Stihl Ultra or other non-"acceptable" oil being mentioned.)

SO, let's calculate!
-- say a new Stihl saw costs $1000 and you put 10 gal/yr through it AND you use this woooonnndderful mixed gas: 10 gal/yr x $20 extra each gallon = $200 out of your pocket ea yr more.
-- So, you can look at it this way: you pay $200/yr to put off buying a new saw in 5 yrs

On the other hand, I would guess nearly 100% of saw owners using the, now infamous, Stihl Ultra at a 50:1 ratio find their saws last at least 10 years. (My 362 has -- pristine cylinder face and light tan plug; my 025C is still running at 25+ yrs old.)

I can now rationalize I have saved $2000 on the 362 over 10 years and much more with the 025C.

All that cipering is giving me a headache

 

[schreib69]

I'm an amateur, My collection is up to 17 saws now, some running some not, I used to use Stihl oil, because it was Stihl and expensive and I figured it was good, switched to Red Armor and my saws really woke up, can't believe an oil can make such a big difference in the way they run. Just my 2 cents,

All I have heard is ad hominem complaints against Stihl oils here. No data except some folks are saying things like I ran regular oil, whatever was on sale, at ratio of one quart per 5 gal(20:1) and the saw lost a bit of power at about 2000 hrs. Nothing that indicates extra wear due to Stihl oil itself.

However YOUR post at least gives me SOME reason to use Red Armor instead of saying: "I use this stuff."
I will try to find some of that Red Armor. I have never heard of it before today; never seen it for sale at any home store, or Fleet Farm, or Menards or anything. It must be available on line! ONLY!

 

[coffeebrk]

I buy Red Armor at Blains and Home Depot

 

[schreib69]

Full tank of fresh fuel & mix , new spark plug properly gapped , clean air & fuel filter . Then tune until it 4 strokes out of the cut & clears up in the cut . Depending on you hearing a tach can help !

OK, I do all that-- except the most important part. I am now showing my ignorance, be gentle.
So, can you please detail these important points!

"tune until it 4 strokes out of the cut."
AND
"Clears up in the cut" ?? huh?

by the way I have a tach, at least! never used it.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Interesting. Care to summarize what are top three factors most important to tuning? I just bought a Stihl 461.

I've read some more of your posts. You're here for a fight, not to learn. Not interested.

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

VP Racing 100% for me and close to half the cost (depending which store you buy VP in) of the red armor semi. Both FD

 

[MacAttack]

What I'd love to know....who actually makes those oils for both brands?

Plot twist: Red Armor is just rebranded Stihl Ultra with red dye. (joking...but who knows???)

 

[jellyroll]

What I'd love to know....who actually makes those oils for both brands?

Plot twist: Red Armor is just rebranded Stihl Ultra with red dye. (joking...but who knows???)

Red armor is made by Phillips 66
Stihl ultra is made by Omni.
Vp i couldn't say but it isn't even close to red armor.

 

[MacAttack]

Red armor is made by Phillips 66
Stihl ultra is made by Omni.
Vp i couldn't say but it isn't even close to red armor.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Backstage]

OK, I do all that-- except the most important part. I am now showing my ignorance, be gentle.
So, can you please detail these important points!

"tune until it 4 strokes out of the cut."
AND
"Clears up in the cut" ?? huh?

by the way I have a tach, at least! never used it.

“4 stroking” is that gargling drowning growl sound saws make. You have too much fuel in the fuel/air mix, and you end up not combusting 100% and every fey cycles it skips. That means you have extra fuel IMMEDIATELY available in the cylinder when you add air by hitting the throttle.

The “cleared up” sound is exactly what it sounds like. It changes from sounding like it’s a bit ticked at not being cutting wood to a pure, enthusiastic roar.

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

I used RA before they switched the formula in a $700 new Echo 280 PAS to the cheapened version they sell now for the same high price. Was good back then. VP does the same thing RA did for way less money.
Some folks just like to stuff others pockets IMHO, I prefer to protect my equipment and keep the money in mine.


https://vpracingfuels.com/product/2-cycle-full-synthetic-oil/?c=245

 

[coffeebrk]

Well, at a $20/ gal premium over reg fuel I wonder how long it will take to pay for preventing a ruined engine from, say 2x or 3x the OEM's gasil ratio in the gas at all??! (Because THAT is what it will take to hash an engine, not using Stihl Ultra or other non-"acceptable" oil being mentioned.)

SO, let's calculate!
-- say a new Stihl saw costs $1000 and you put 10 gal/yr through it AND you use this woooonnndderful mixed gas: 10 gal/yr x $20 extra each gallon = $200 out of your pocket ea yr more.
-- So, you can look at it this way: you pay $200/yr to put off buying a new saw in 5 yrs

On the other hand, I would guess nearly 100% of saw owners using the, now infamous, Stihl Ultra at a 50:1 ratio find their saws last at least 10 years. (My 362 has -- pristine cylinder face and light tan plug; my 025C is still running at 25+ yrs old.)

I can now rationalize I have saved $2000 on the 362 over 10 years and much more with the 025C.