First time milling

[00juice]

A little more info, and an additional pic or two. This was a really nice day of milling. Perfect weather. Good people. It was me, paul, my brother jim, Paul's brother Al and Paul's friend Ken. The butternut was a week or so away from being burned to make way for the a new sewer line. So, we figured we'd better get it taken care of. We cut a total of 8 slabs, 2" thick by 8 feet long. We also cut four short 4" thick slabs from a piece that was only about 30" long. There was a 3 way crotch that was cut to a slab 7" thick. It is about 6 feet long. It will definately be made into a single table for the cabin. And we had (2) 6' 14" diameter crotch pieces that were each cut to give us a total of (6) 2" slabs. The three way crotch is really nice. Although, it was a pain in the butt. The 36" alaska CSM was not big enough to cut it all the way through. So, we started from the butt, and cut as far as possible. Then we came at it from the the left side of the top end. Then we came at it from the right side of the top end. Finally, we took a Chainsaw freehand to it to clean up what we couldn't reach with the CSM. It really turned out pretty well. the grooves in it from freehanding are not any deeper then 3/16" at the worst. When it's dry, nothing a big old hand plane won't take care of. We coated all the ends with anchorseal, and stickered to dry. It seemed the anchorseal we put on some other logs about three weeks ago, really seemed to soak in. We went back and coated again. I can't wait to get a chance to start using this stuff for some furniture projects. The grain in all of these logs is nothing short of absolutely beautiful. The pictures do not show it justice. There are some short (6-7')cherry logs lying around in the 12" diameter range that we will try to get to soon. My auxillary oiler worked ok, but it was difficult to get it to flow because of the viscosity of the stihl bar oil. Any suggestions to improve the flow of the auxillary oiler? Do you guys think it would be ok to take these larger slabs (2"-7") thick to a kiln in the spring, or do they need more time to dry outside? Thanks for reading.
Brian

 

[tawilson]

Seeing as you're dripping it on the end of the bar, maybe you don't need all those tackifiers. Perhaps just a lighter weight motor oil would work.

 

[webbill]

New lost, confused and really need help just to know where to get started

I have about 20 wooded acres in East Texas in the last few years of extreme drought I lost some large Oaks and a couple 20 to 30' cedars. I have one that is probably around 36" diamater it has probably been dead now for 5 years, the top branchs are falling off but I think the trunk area is still solid timber. I think, what do you guys think? I have another two that have been dead for 6 or 7 that very tall and straight but only probably a little over a foot in diamater. Do you think these trees still have any value? I know they would be like rocks to cut into boards. But if I was game would it be worth a try?

I also have other trees in my small woods that are living I would like to harvest to make room for a pecan orchard. I'd say I have several 18" to 24" in diamater and for the most part pretty tall and straight.

In addition I grew up on a small ranch in South Central Oklahoma. There is probably over a hundred acres of timber, just guessing I would say that 40 of it is in a bottom where there would be more tall trees, mostly oak I'd say, the rest not very tall but I say there are 18" or greater diamater. These trees are growing on hill sides in a very arid region, about 25 inches of rain and are very hard oaks, they are called black jacks, usually they are too small for timber but I know there are lots of trees that several boards of 12" to 8" wide or wider could be taken out 8' to 10' long or longer. As I said this wood is very dense and has a mix of beautiful red and creamy white color. Would there be a market for this timber?

If so how could I found how much it is worth. I have searched and searched of information. All the extension service stuff seems gears to have timber owner / producers.

Also if I did decided to get into the mill business I always thougth that there would be a big saw upright on a converyor type system. But I have seen pictures here where it seemed like logs were laying on the ground and the people were slicing off boards, I also saw saws mentions that were under $1,000 and I was confused if they were talking about big heavy duty chain saws but the topic was milling saws.

So I need to learn what trees are worth making into lumber, if I have some worth milling and selling how do I determine what the value is and where do I market it. And what is the least expensive mill saw I could get by in getting started.

After I cut it how to I age it and for how long?

I know that is a lot of question but I'd be extremely gratiful for some answers and maybe guidance to some litituture where I could learn some more. But some personal gudiance that isnt academic at this point would be wonderful.

Thanks,

Bill

 

[BobL]

I know that is a lot of question but I'd be extremely gratiful for some answers and maybe guidance to some litituture where I could learn some more. But some personal gudiance that isnt academic at this point would be wonderful.

Welcome aboard webbill - that's a great opening post and you are right - that is a lot of questions and many of the quick answers start with . . . ."It depends . . . "

The best advice I would recommend at this moment is to take the time to learn how to use the Search function of this forum. It's all pretty much buried in there awaiting for you to uncover.

 

[webbill]

Thanks BobL

I just got thru skimming all this thread for the last three years.

I still dont know what a lot of the talk is about because it is over my head because I dont have any background at all.

But I think I did learn that the dead trees might still have lumber in them, and they might not still have dried out. Every after decades.

That oak isnt bringing much. But I still dont really under stand how to mill it or if I wanted to market it where to even start.

Also it seems like people are using their chain saws with extra tools of some kind to mill the wood.

Is there some kind of special chain or attachment that will go on a chain saw to mill a log with? Also I saw pictures of steel guides or poles or something that was being used.

I'm on another forum for something else and sometimes I babysit new people, lol.

I sure could use a little basic direction in getting started. Just like I said reading old posts is reading what people wrote they knew what they were doing in the first place.

Is there any online manual of the basics that you know about I could download and read to kind of get an idea?

I appreciate your reply.

Bill

 

[BobL]

Humm . . . I don't want to argue with you but if you're asking questions like "Is there some kind of special chain or attachment that will go on a chain saw to mill a log with? " you haven't really been reading or taking in too much of this forum.

The best way to learn this game is go watch someone do it, maybe ask on the forum here if you can go watch someone. Unfortunately I can't answer your questions about specific value of your logs as the are completely foreign to me.

For basic info on the web I would start here: http://www.granberg.com/

Then look here: http://www.baileysonline.com/search.asp?SKW=alaskan&catID=198

For other ideas try http://www.logosol.com/

Also Rail mill instructions here: http://www.vianet.net.au/~jemal/rail mill.htm

Some slab milling info here: http://www.vianet.net.au/~jemal/slab mill.htm

 

[webbill]

Thanks for the links Bob

I'm sorry if you thought I was arguing. That wasn't my intention at all. Just to point out although I was really reading you are dead on as far as taking much in because I was umfamilar with a lot of the terms people were using.

To ad there isn't a "Beginners Guide to Timber Harvisting and Personal Milling for Dumbies".

It will take a while. Last night I spent about 4 hours reading the threads before joining and posting for the first time. And although you might not be able to give specfic answers especially to market and timber quality questions you might be able to point me in directions to find out.

Thanks for the links I'll read them and jot down terms and types of equipment and tools and try to do searches on what they are.

Thanks again,

Bill

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

Welcome to AS!

Where 'bouts in East Texas are you? There are several members with mills on your side of the state and I'm just west of Houston. Meeting with someone shouldn't too difficult.

While there isn't a book by that exact title, there is one that will teach you nearly everything you need to get started. Look for "Chainsaw Lumber Making" by Will Malloff.

http://www.amazon.com/Chainsaw-Lumbermaking-Will-Malloff/dp/0918804124

Some of the information on ripping chains is out of date but the rest of the info in the book is spot on.

Good luck!

 

[oldsaw]

I just got thru skimming all this thread for the last three years.

I still dont know what a lot of the talk is about because it is over my head because I dont have any background at all.

But I think I did learn that the dead trees might still have lumber in them, and they might not still have dried out. Every after decades.

That oak isnt bringing much. But I still dont really under stand how to mill it or if I wanted to market it where to even start.

Also it seems like people are using their chain saws with extra tools of some kind to mill the wood.

Is there some kind of special chain or attachment that will go on a chain saw to mill a log with? Also I saw pictures of steel guides or poles or something that was being used.

I'm on another forum for something else and sometimes I babysit new people, lol.

I sure could use a little basic direction in getting started. Just like I said reading old posts is reading what people wrote they knew what they were doing in the first place.

Is there any online manual of the basics that you know about I could download and read to kind of get an idea?

I appreciate your reply.

Bill

Your question is largely one of scale. In other words, how much of this do you want milled and in what timeframe. If you are talking about a fair number of trees, you may want to hire a bandmill to come in and do the actual milling for you. Cut the trees down (again you can hire someone if you aren't comfortable or experienced enough), drag them to an accessible area, and call in a sawyer to mill them up.

A chainsaw mill is great for occasional logs that come your way to make lumber for personal use, but if you are trying to market lumber, then you will need a faster, more efficient method of milling than a chainsaw is going to provide. I love my chainsaw mill, but I use it to feed my woodworking habits, and have no interest in selling lumber. For me, it's the perfect solution. For you, it doesn't appear to be so good. You need someone who can get in, get the job done, and leave you a pile of lumber.

The lumber will have to be end-coated and stacked on a level surface with "stickers" (small strips of wood that allow airflow through the pile to facilitate drying). You may want to consider getting the lumber dried in a kiln if there is a local service, but air drying is cheaper. Otherwise you can sell it wet and roughsawn. You won't get as much money for it, but you will get the money faster, and with less work on your part.

Mark

Mark

 

[webbill]

Thanks Mark:

Your question is largely one of scale. In other words, how much of this do you want milled and in what timeframe. If you are talking about a fair number of trees, you may want to hire a bandmill to come in and do the actual milling for you. Cut the trees down (again you can hire someone if you aren't comfortable or experienced enough), drag them to an accessible area, and call in a sawyer to mill them up.

A chainsaw mill is great for occasional logs that come your way to make lumber for personal use, but if you are trying to market lumber, then you will need a faster, more efficient method of milling than a chainsaw is going to provide. I love my chainsaw mill, but I use it to feed my woodworking habits, and have no interest in selling lumber. For me, it's the perfect solution. For you, it doesn't appear to be so good. You need someone who can get in, get the job done, and leave you a pile of lumber.

The lumber will have to be end-coated and stacked on a level surface with "stickers" (small strips of wood that allow airflow through the pile to facilitate drying). You may want to consider getting the lumber dried in a kiln if there is a local service, but air drying is cheaper. Otherwise you can sell it wet and roughsawn. You won't get as much money for it, but you will get the money faster, and with less work on your part.

Mark

Mark

To be honest I don't know what I want to do. I am going to try to do some simple wood crafting myself, but that would not take a whole lot of wood.

Mainly I just want to know what I have and what my options are. At first I just tried to find saw mills that weren't very far away and came across some websites saying you could make money doing the milling yourself. But I kind of was wary and in my searches I came across this site.

I did spend hours reading old posts on this link before I posted but for the most part I didn't fully understand what people were talking about most of the time and couldnt make head or tails of the pictures.

But the links Bob posted has helped me some. Just got through looking at how to mill on the Baileys site and it gave me an idea of what was going on. And I'll go to the others and take my time to try to asorb what is there.

As far as letting others do it, I dont know. I have started my own business back up again after several years working for others. It is slow getting started and part of what I was exploring was would this be something I could do when I didn't have other work to do. And could I benefit from the trees I own. So I guess I was wondering besides getting money for wood, could I make some money on my labor too, even if others would be more effecient. Does that make sense?

So first I just have to educate myself in this area and then decide what I want to do.

I have a feeling I will learn a lot once I know what you guys are talking about, lol. I'm getting there a little now.

Thanks again,

Bill

 

[webbill]

Thanks for the welcome AWB

Welcome to AS!

Where 'bouts in East Texas are you? There are several members with mills on your side of the state and I'm just west of Houston. Meeting with someone shouldn't too difficult.

While there isn't a book by that exact title, there is one that will teach you nearly everything you need to get started. Look for "Chainsaw Lumber Making" by Will Malloff.

http://www.amazon.com/Chainsaw-Lumbermaking-Will-Malloff/dp/0918804124

Some of the information on ripping chains is out of date but the rest of the info in the book is spot on.


Good luck!

I am in NE Texas (Emory) 50 miles N of Tyler and 30 SE of Greenville on Hwy 69 or 20 miles centered between Canton and Sulphur Springs on 19 if any of thoses towns are familiar to you.

I on occasion see timber trucks coming through but I havent been about to find a mill in NE Texas, all my searches come up with places down south in your part of the woods.

I began to wonder if I was wasting those big dead trees and if they were ruined. I guess my answer is maybe and maybe not. Besides all those reasons I cited to Mark, I was wondering if I could get out about 600 sq ft of oak planking to replace my 15 year old carpet. And just to get some kind of management plan. I know the grains and color of the woods I have access to have beautiful colors and grains. It is a shame for them to go up in smoke or rot when something does happen to the tree.

As far as meeting some forum members and seeing what they do would be great. Maybe I will come across some guys that arent too far away.

I'll look for the book. None of this is urgent on my part but I do want to learn enough to make intelligent decisions on my options, even if I decide to do nothing.

I do have one question. I have a Husqvarna 455, 3.4 CU, 3.4 HP/2.5KW, 13,000 Max RPM, Chain Pitch .325/3/8", Rec bar leng 16" to 20". When I bought it I thought it would be more than enough saw for what I had to do, but after seeing the bar lenght on saws milling I wonder. Do people, can you, or should you put on a longer bar and a special chain to mill with? If you can what is the max lenght bar and what kind of chain would you recommend for my chain saw, or would I need to get another one?

Thanks for the post,

Bill

 

[woodshop]

To be honest I don't know what I want to do. I am going to try to do some simple wood crafting myself, but that would not take a whole lot of wood.

Curious what you mean by "simple wood crafting"? Are you taking about making small wooden items to sell at craft shows?

 

[webbill]

Hi Woodshop:

Curious what you mean by "simple wood crafting"? Are you taking about making small wooden items to sell at craft shows?

Yes, bird houses, feeders, stuff like that. I'd like to make some more sturdy stuff than what one usually comes across in more and in more rustic styles.

Back in my younger days I have made simple furniture such as bookshelves, chests, chess boards, etc. nothing real fancy or complicated. In the not smooth touch look I have built rabbit hutches, chicken coops, other kinds of pole sheds. I like doing things like that but never really had a chance to pick up any real skills.

 

[oldsaw]

Yes, bird houses, feeders, stuff like that. I'd like to make some more sturdy stuff than what one usually comes across in more and in more rustic styles.

Back in my younger days I have made simple furniture such as bookshelves, chests, chess boards, etc. nothing real fancy or complicated. In the not smooth touch look I have built rabbit hutches, chicken coops, other kinds of pole sheds. I like doing things like that but never really had a chance to pick up any real skills.

Chicks dig guys with skills. Woodworking skills, computer hacking skills, numchuck skills, you know...

Mark

 

[BobL]

I think oldsaws reply about scale, personal use, and the slowness of CS milling is a pretty good one. I did not think you were arguing - it was me think about arguing with you - anyway - I hope you can find some useful answers here - I have been helped enormously by the site gurus and I hope my educated opnions are worth a dime or two from time to time

I would say your current saw/bar is too small for the size and extent of the trees you say you have in mind - as the old saying goes - milling is hard on saws. You can still mill a lot of usefull stuff with your small setup if you buy a CS mill (get at least a 36") but you will be limited to small diameter (eg <15" with a 20" bar) logs.

Everyone has their own reasons for getting into home milling on a variety of scales. I'm starting to meet people who find out I'm into CS milling and the say, hey you could make lotsa money out of doing that! They don't realize how much work is involved and how slow it is - I can tell you that although I like milling, I would not do this as a day job. I am also not really doing this to get access to cheap timber - I treat any that when it does come along simply as a bonus The money I have spent so far (CS Mill, shed, planer/thicknesser etc) to get set up to get into this would buy an awful lot of lumber. I am personally doing this to get access to timber that is either simply not commerically available or running out fast.

If you can meet up with and watch aggiewoodbutcher I'm sure you will learn a lot fast.

Cheers

 

[webbill]

Mark and Bob

Mark my wife loves me (most of the time) and I have no skills.

Bob, I appreciate your replies. When someone gives their time they are giving part of themselves. I was frustrated last night, no matter how much time it seemed I spent I could never get a grasp on what was going on. I think a lot of it was I never grasped it was all about using a chain saw and taking slabs off a log, then when I kind of got that I wasn't sure if the chainsaw was part of the mill machine or just a chainsaw attached. And it was late here.

I didn't have time to get past the Bailey's link but called them, now I think I can at least understand the posts, lol. I will try to get to the other links you sent too. Baileys said about the same thing that I need more power. He did say I might be able to do small logs with a small Alaskan but not to push it and let it go real slow.

BTW what is a CS Mill? Chain Saw or a type or brand?

He also mentioned a beam machine might be all I need if I stick to small logs, but my internet went off and when it came back on I was off the phone and couldnt find it on the website.

I doubt at this point I would want to spring for a new chainsaw and all the other things I would need for logs, but will keep it as an option as I learn more about all those questions in that first post of mine. For the little craft type of things I want to do now I have just been using large firewood back logs and tacking on 1"X1" around the log measuring the distance of the 1x1's for a guide to keep the thickness the same and just going down it with my chainsaw. I think I will get a rip chain though the few I have cut I just used the cross chain I have. And like you for the lumber I would need it would be less trouble to buy it, but it wouldn't look as good, not the color or the grains.

So thanks again,

Bill

 

[BobL]

BTW what is a CS Mill? Chain Saw or a type or brand?

CS Mill stands for "ChainSaw" Mill it's a general term for any type of mill that uses a chainsaw engine as the power source. Their are some variants like a small bandsaw that uses a CS that should probably should be called a CS band Mill.

He also mentioned a beam machine might be all I need if I stick to small logs, but my internet went off and when it came back on I was off the phone and couldnt find it on the website.

Beam machines use a conventional chainsaw (CS) attached at the power head end of the bar to slider which attaches to a beam of metal which is attached to the log. The CS is normally vertical and takes slices off a log like cutting a loaf of bread lengthwise. I've never used one myself but they seem ideal for small machines and small logs because there's nothing retricting the nose end of the bar although I wouldn't want to be milling big logs with one.

If you stick to small logs and a smallish alaskan mill then your current CS should be OK for small production runs. Also read this useful webpage - http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/westfordmill.htm

 

[woodshop]

http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/westfordmill.htm

Excellent little blurb about chainsaw milling with lots of sound practical advice... thanks for that link Bob. Looks like an Australian version of the Granberg with a few little twists. I like their larger handhold on top, I might try and mimic that on mine since it seems to be set back further and lower.

Webbill everybody has to start at the beginning, keep asking questions. Most of us here love to spread this stuff around.

 

[BobL]

Excellent little blurb about chainsaw milling with lots of sound practical advice... thanks for that link Bob. Looks like an Australian version of the Granberg with a few little twists. I like their larger handhold on top, I might try and mimic that on mine since it seems to be set back further and lower.

Yeah the company HQ is just a couple of miles from my place. They make nice solid stuff, but it's pretty expensive for what it is.

 

[webbill]

Hi Bob and Woodshop

CS Mill stands for "ChainSaw" Mill it's a general term for any type of mill that uses a chainsaw engine as the power source. Their are some variants like a small bandsaw that uses a CS that should probably should be called a CS band Mill.



Beam machines use a conventional chainsaw (CS) attached at the power head end of the bar to slider which attaches to a beam of metal which is attached to the log. The CS is normally vertical and takes slices off a log like cutting a loaf of bread lengthwise. I've never used one myself but they seem ideal for small machines and small logs because there's nothing retricting the nose end of the bar although I wouldn't want to be milling big logs with one.

If you stick to small logs and a smallish alaskan mill then your current CS should be OK for small production runs. Also read this useful webpage - http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/westfordmill.htm

After I posted my replies last night I went onto Bailey's and found the Beam Machine. For now I think it is all I need. For the craft items the largest piece of wood I would need is a 1"X18"X12" and I could get by replacing the 12"'s with 2, 6" pieces. Those pieces would be for the floor of a table feeder. The sides would only be a squared off triangle piece going from about 4"'s to 8"'s to 8" high. The roof two pieces of 12"x6", the front sides are plexiglass. For the hanging feeders I am just going to lop off two slabs of about 8" diam. logs and then use two 6"X12" to each round piece and use a router for the feeding holes and to make a groove in each round piece to put two plexiglass sides where one can see the seed level. Simple stuff, but going to use more wood and thicker plexiglass where they dont fall apart like the Walmart kind. And also treat the wood in this non-toxic some kind for of salt based solution (I forget the chemical name) that will protect the wood forever but has no color then stain them in some nice aged looking non-toxic gray and moss looking green. There isn't much wood invovled really and once I get on an assembly line type of making them I dont think much time either. If I could get a Walmart Price for a much better looking and much sturdier quality I think I know enough markets for them I could do pretty good. Not make a living mind you but make some bucks and enjoy doing it and get some satisfaction of making something long lasting, functional, and nice looking. I am going to also make some suet feeders that isn't any more that a small piece of firewood with holes drilled it it, but woodpeckers and nuthatches especially, but other perching birds really love to visit. Another key is I am going to include hardware where all of them are easy to install and to get to get down and refill with ease along with the feeders.

The timber I have access to and the milling might come later. At least I kind of know what is involved in milling it, next I need to find it there is a market for it that would make it worth my time. The Oklahoma arid grown oak is so beautiful and dense, as much red or more red as white and the grain pattern is so nice I was thinking that I might in the future find a small independent furniture or cabinet maker to market it to. But I dont have time now for that. And it will require a lot of thought and facts than I have now.

Another question. If I run out of aged firewood logs on my craft stuff which is going to be small pieces of wood and have to cut new trees to get more, could I dry it out in an open oven at low tempatures instead of making some kind of mini-kiln that would take weeks or months to season?

I really appreciate you guys help. I don't have all the answers but at least I have a starting point to find out.

Bill