First time milling

[woodshop]

Another question. If I run out of aged firewood logs on my craft stuff which is going to be small pieces of wood and have to cut new trees to get more, could I dry it out in an open oven at low tempatures instead of making some kind of mini-kiln that would take weeks or months to season?

Short answer is no... it would dry the wood way too fast. What happens is the outside wood dries, but the inside is still very wet, and this causes lots of stress which distorts the fibers. It is called honeycombing. Google honeycombing & wood together and you will find lots of discussion on the subject. There are ways to accelerate drying pieces of wood, but there is no substitute for time needed, because it simply takes time for the moisture to transport through the fibers and out of the wood evenly. Some wood does that better than others. Gum for example transports water poorly, and thus you can easily get honeycombing and checking in that species by drying too fast.

I too make items in my woodshop to sell at shows. At this point the most advice I can give you is that there is a lot more too the process than making product and setting up a table at a show. I found out the hard way that if you want to be successful you need to be very organized first of all. You need to take the time to plan ahead and take things somewhat slowly so you can learn from the mistakes.

 

[chass]

Webbill,

Back in August of this year I was at the same place you are now. I had a small saw (18” bar), access to some wood but had never done any milling before in my life. Also none of my friends or family had done any milling either.

I now have 100+ BF of fine looking cherry air drying in the garage. Now I’m still very much a rookie so I won’t give you any milling advice but I will tell you what I found out regarding the wait required for air drying. While I was excited when milling my first log in the back of my mind I was concerned about having to wait a year or more to use the wood for the project. I thought I should just go buy the wood and get started. The money I spent for the Alaska mill and ripping chain would have more then covered the cost of wood for the project. However, after milling the logs up and seeing what I had, my tune changed.

Next fall I will start on the coffee table and I’m OK with that because in the mean time I have a new hobby, chain saw milling. It is just as much fun or just as satisfying milling the lumber for the project as it is building the project.

Chass

 

[webbill]

I get the point Woodshop & Chass

Short answer is no... it would dry the wood way too fast. What happens is the outside wood dries, but the inside is still very wet, and this causes lots of stress which distorts the fibers. It is called honeycombing. Google honeycombing & wood together and you will find lots of discussion on the subject. There are ways to accelerate drying pieces of wood, but there is no substitute for time needed, because it simply takes time for the moisture to transport through the fibers and out of the wood evenly. Some wood does that better than others. Gum for example transports water poorly, and thus you can easily get honeycombing and checking in that species by drying too fast.

I too make items in my woodshop to sell at shows. At this point the most advice I can give you is that there is a lot more too the process than making product and setting up a table at a show. I found out the hard way that if you want to be successful you need to be very organized first of all. You need to take the time to plan ahead and take things somewhat slowly so you can learn from the mistakes.

Well I am trying to get organized. Where I am getting unorganized is trying to make my own lumber. :newbie: Well I am learning. Kind of. When I go into Lowes and price what I want I get even more incentive to mill some of mine own even if it is over a year until I can use it.

I have a tin shed that is 8'x8'x8' that has a 4'x7' door that has junk in it now. It has a dirt floor but stays pretty dry. It is part of and divided by chicken wire between an old chicken coup which is larger than the shed and the coup has a door too. So with both doors open I could have ventalation from the south (the chicken coup) and the east the shed for drying wood.

Would something like that work. There is no electrictiy but in the days of the chickens I stung out an extension cord to it for light. I could run a fan out there and a little heater if it would help, but the heater might not do much even if I closed the shed door unless I blocked off the open wired divider from the chicken coup. Should/Could I cover the top with clear plastic sheeting to keep off dirt?

I've seen examples of how to stack it. What I read you would pretty much have to have separate stacks for different lenghts? Also have read different types of wood should be in separate stacks. I will have mostly oak but I have some dead cedars I would like to salvage. Also I want to take out some elms. I always thought of them as trash wood, but in internet searches found in England they are well thought of for some wood. I had a large one get struck by lighting and split. It was a real heavy tree, more than oak it seemed. I had been dragging dead oaks and cedars to my pond to sink as structure and had roll them into the pond and the floated them to where I sank them. But the elm sank like a rock as soon as I rolled it into the water.

Have any of you heard of people using elm for wood working?

Chriss you want to do something special for your house. I want to produce a product small scale.

I looked at Lowes and man.....but it is finished plainned wood. I really want rough hewn wood for that texiture.

So I have some large fire wood logs that have been outside for a couple of years but not covered. Is there a chance they would be good for wood working could I tell if I purchased a moistur meter. I saw some that went for $25.

Next solution short-term is there somone out there looking near by that would have some rough cut but cured oak to sale at a reasonalbe price?

 

[oldsaw]

Webbill,

Back in August of this year I was at the same place you are now. I had a small saw (18” bar), access to some wood but had never done any milling before in my life. Also none of my friends or family had done any milling either.

I now have 100+ BF of fine looking cherry air drying in the garage. Now I’m still very much a rookie so I won’t give you any milling advice but I will tell you what I found out regarding the wait required for air drying. While I was excited when milling my first log in the back of my mind I was concerned about having to wait a year or more to use the wood for the project. I thought I should just go buy the wood and get started. The money I spent for the Alaska mill and ripping chain would have more then covered the cost of wood for the project. However, after milling the logs up and seeing what I had, my tune changed.

Next fall I will start on the coffee table and I’m OK with that because in the mean time I have a new hobby, chain saw milling. It is just as much fun or just as satisfying milling the lumber for the project as it is building the project.

Chass

I purchased my 066, Alaskan mill, 2 rip chains, auxiliary oiler, and a 2x8 guide board for just under $700. My first batch of logs got me over 400 bft of oak and walnut, the second got me another 250 bft more. I was into the wood for a bit more than $1 per board foot. I've got about 200bft of cherry drying now. Even with the addition of the 3120, I'm under $1/ft over the past 4-5 years I've been milling for equipment costs.

Nothing is better than to build something out of wood that you milled yourself. This is the goal I had 20 some years ago, but before I knew you could use a chainsaw to mill. Have fun, I know I do.

Mark

 

[oldsaw]

Well I am trying to get organized. Where I am getting unorganized is trying to make my own lumber. :newbie: Well I am learning. Kind of. When I go into Lowes and price what I want I get even more incentive to mill some of mine own even if it is over a year until I can use it.

I have a tin shed that is 8'x8'x8' that has a 4'x7' door that has junk in it now. It has a dirt floor but stays pretty dry. It is part of and divided by chicken wire between an old chicken coup which is larger than the shed and the coup has a door too. So with both doors open I could have ventalation from the south (the chicken coup) and the east the shed for drying wood.

Would something like that work. There is no electrictiy but in the days of the chickens I stung out an extension cord to it for light. I could run a fan out there and a little heater if it would help, but the heater might not do much even if I closed the shed door unless I blocked off the open wired divider from the chicken coup. Should/Could I cover the top with clear plastic sheeting to keep off dirt?

I've seen examples of how to stack it. What I read you would pretty much have to have separate stacks for different lenghts? Also have read different types of wood should be in separate stacks. I will have mostly oak but I have some dead cedars I would like to salvage. Also I want to take out some elms. I always thought of them as trash wood, but in internet searches found in England they are well thought of for some wood. I had a large one get struck by lighting and split. It was a real heavy tree, more than oak it seemed. I had been dragging dead oaks and cedars to my pond to sink as structure and had roll them into the pond and the floated them to where I sank them. But the elm sank like a rock as soon as I rolled it into the water.

Have any of you heard of people using elm for wood working?

Chriss you want to do something special for your house. I want to produce a product small scale.

I looked at Lowes and man.....but it is finished plainned wood. I really want rough hewn wood for that texiture.

So I have some large fire wood logs that have been outside for a couple of years but not covered. Is there a chance they would be good for wood working could I tell if I purchased a moistur meter. I saw some that went for $25.

Next solution short-term is there somone out there looking near by that would have some rough cut but cured oak to sale at a reasonalbe price?

Rough cut air dried oak isn't expensive. I use a cheap moisture meter, and it works for my needs. Anything is better than nothing.

The firewood logs? You would have to see how much cracking there is. The wood inside may be discolored, but that may be more "rustic" for your needs. You don't know until you open a log up. It's kind of like Christmas every time to flip off the top on a new log. You could be happy, or not so happy. That's why we mill logs. The good ones make it all worthwhile.

Mark

 

[rotarysound]

Chainsaw Milling Manual

Greetings CSM folks,

I too am new at chainsaw milling here in the pacific northwest and have been watching and reading on this forum. Thank you for all of the excellent information. I came across this Chainsaw Milling Manual the other day and thought it may be useful to beginners on the forum especially for the person that started this thread and like myself:

www.gardenorganic.org.uk/pdfs/international_programme/ChainsawMillingManual.pdf

I really thought it covered most everything about the subject. It's a big PDF file but I think it's worth the time in downloading it. It is very comprehensive and up to date with pictures. It also describes many of the current mills available today that are often mentioned often on this forum. It's a long document.

As for myself, I am starting out with a Logosol Timberjig, Stihl MS 660 and a 25" ES Bar and two loops of Oregon 27R ripping chain. I also have several Stihl 028 Woodboss saws that I can experiment with for smaller logs. My first project was a 24" Big Leaf Maple. Probably not the best log to start on but it worked out okay I think and ended up with some nice 1x6 boards and some slabs for a milling deck. My friend loaned me a Peavy that was modified with 5' pipe welded on to it. It came in handy for moving giant logs around or out of the way. I bought a 3' Timberjack that is usable as a peavy that I will be trying out after it arrives but still may want to invest in a large stout cant hook. Those things are spendy though. $100.00 just seems like too much $ for a tool like that. Oh well. Bye for now.

Thanks everyone for all of the great reading!

 

[webbill]

Chass, OldSaw, & RotarySound

Greetings CSM folks,

I too am new at chainsaw milling here in the pacific northwest and have been watching and reading on this forum. Thank you for all of the excellent information. I came across this Chainsaw Milling Manual the other day and thought it may be useful to beginners on the forum especially for the person that started this thread and like myself:

www.gardenorganic.org.uk/pdfs/international_programme/ChainsawMillingManual.pdf

I really thought it covered most everything about the subject. It's a big PDF file but I think it's worth the time in downloading it. It is very comprehensive and up to date with pictures. It also describes many of the current mills available today that are often mentioned often on this forum. It's a long document.

As for myself, I am starting out with a Logosol Timberjig, Stihl MS 660 and a 25" ES Bar and two loops of Oregon 27R ripping chain. I also have several Stihl 028 Woodboss saws that I can experiment with for smaller logs. My first project was a 24" Big Leaf Maple. Probably not the best log to start on but it worked out okay I think and ended up with some nice 1x6 boards and some slabs for a milling deck. My friend loaned me a Peavy that was modified with 5' pipe welded on to it. It came in handy for moving giant logs around or out of the way. I bought a 3' Timberjack that is usable as a peavy that I will be trying out after it arrives but still may want to invest in a large stout cant hook. Those things are spendy though. $100.00 just seems like too much $ for a tool like that. Oh well. Bye for now.

Thanks everyone for all of the great reading!

Thanks for the replies,

Chass I too would like to build some nice furniture for the house and could wait for it but I need some things built in the next month and at this point I may have to buy plained wood for a very high price and rough it up.

In earlier posts I said I had ideas on building things that would be more durable and attractive than what most retail outlets sell now and stuff that a middle aged person could buy and have a reasonable expectation it would still be around when they croaked. That definetly doesn't include makeing it with green wood that will warp crack and fall apart as it dried.

Right now I could use a 100 board feet of rough 1" or 1/2" oak, the pieces do not have to be long, 1 foot trimmed would do, and 1 foot wide would be great but some of it could be 4" to 6" wide. In other words I might be able to use someone elses scraps, depending on their scraps. The pieces would not have to have a precise thickness just pretty close.

I think it was you OldChain that said there was plenty around, you are probably right. Any ideas on how to locate it?

As far as my milling. Most of the trees I will have will be 18" or less, most much less. But since the widest wood I would need is 12" 12"'s long and I could use 2 6" pieces that would be no problem. Besides the 12" pieces I will need 6" & 4" wide pieces too, so almost all the cuts of the trees would probably all get used, the wide cuts in the middle for the 12" and toward the ends I would get my more narrow cuts.

Anyway point to last paragraph is that with the CS I have I think I will just stick to a beam maker, cheap, light, and would be fine for smaller diam. I could cross the timbers into short pieces for the shorter pieces of wood I need for my crafts. Maybe later I might get a larger CS and a small mill machine.

Any ideas about the place (described in a earlier post) I will be drying my wood in for furture use. Will it work, improvements I could make? How high could I stack the wood?Any ideas on how to find wood now from CS millers that is ready to use?

Where to post oh here to find people that may have some, or other places to post to find some? At this point I think I would rather buy it and get busy with my building the projects. I can see if the fire wood is dry enough later for the next round. I havent ordered my rip chain or the beam machine yet, but probably will do it today but won't get it for a week. So even if I get a moisture meter it I wouldn't know if I could use it and if I couldnt I would be getting short on time.

Does anyone know where to even start looking for wood? Any ideas on what would be a fair price?

I know I ask a lot of questions, but I really appreciate the help.

Bill, the pesky :newbie: :newbie:

 

[woodshop]

Does anyone know where to even start looking for wood? Any ideas on what would be a fair price?

Don't know about where you are in Texas, but around here a good place to start is head away from any of the big cities into the country and visit some of the smaller sawmills. They often have "extras", stacks of cull or otherwise not up to par wood that goes REAL cheap. Their prices for grade lumber right off the saw are also very good compared to a retail lumber distributor.

As far as price... that is VERY location specific. Example, cherry, walnut and white oak are generally cheaper by a good buck or more a foot here in the east compared to out on west coast. As oldsaw pointed out, the more you mill the cheaper it gets once you buy your equipment and get set up. I spent all together over a few years time almost $5000 on saws and mills a ways back. But then I've milled several thousand feet of lumber every year since then so... quick and dirty math looks like I'm down to less than 30 cents a bd ft at this point if I don't pay myself a salary. Of course... there are expenses other than just gas/oil/chain/bandsaw blades... like transportation to and from milling area which just seems to get more expensive every day. For the purposes of my fledgling woodshop business, I use $2 a bd ft when I price that into the final cost of the piece I'm selling.

webbill hard to comment not seeing it, but sounds like your chicken coup shed should be OK to dry your lumber as long as it does get air flow through it. No need to cover it to keep dirt off... but you do need to keep rain off of it. Don't let it dry too fast in the first week or so (partially cover it) or you will get more check and twist than you would otherwise.

 

[webbill]

Thanks Mark, I just replied to you on another link

Don't know about where you are in Texas, but around here a good place to start is head away from any of the big cities into the country and visit some of the smaller sawmills. They often have "extras", stacks of cull or otherwise not up to par wood that goes REAL cheap. Their prices for grade lumber right off the saw are also very good compared to a retail lumber distributor.

As far as price... that is VERY location specific. Example, cherry, walnut and white oak are generally cheaper by a good buck or more a foot here in the east compared to out on west coast. As oldsaw pointed out, the more you mill the cheaper it gets once you buy your equipment and get set up. I spent all together over a few years time almost $5000 on saws and mills a ways back. But then I've milled several thousand feet of lumber every year since then so... quick and dirty math looks like I'm down to less than 30 cents a bd ft at this point if I don't pay myself a salary. Of course... there are expenses other than just gas/oil/chain/bandsaw blades... like transportation to and from milling area which just seems to get more expensive every day. For the purposes of my fledgling woodshop business, I use $2 a bd ft when I price that into the final cost of the piece I'm selling.

webbill hard to comment not seeing it, but sounds like your chicken coup shed should be OK to dry your lumber as long as it does get air flow through it. No need to cover it to keep dirt off... but you do need to keep rain off of it. Don't let it dry too fast in the first week or so (partially cover it) or you will get more check and twist than you would otherwise.

My problem is that I can't locate a small local mill. Although I think that there are within a hour or so drive, I guess they just dont see a need for retail advertising. I'll keep looking.

How high can you stack milled wood, and can you stack in different widths as long as everything is supported? Would clear plastic be ok to initially cover it with? We even during doughts have a pretty high humidity level here. Good new I guess for quality? Bad news for fast wood, which I have pretty much given up on. But I still want to do my projects even if I purchase the wood which I initially planned to, but then got to thinking man I waste lots of good wood, why buy.

Ask this in the other post but what kind of things do you make?

Thanks again,

Bill

 

[woodshop]

How high can you stack milled wood...

Limits are logistics and safety... how much of a pain in the a$$ to get the wood UP there and then get it DOWN again, and will it fall on somebody if and when it does. Remember the wood will move as it shrinks and dries. I rarely stack more than 6ft high, and even then I often have some support post on either side to keep it from falling.

You can put different length stacks in the pile as long as you put the long ones down first and stack shorter ones above.

 

[webbill]

Thanks again Mark

Limits are logistics and safety... how much of a pain in the a$$ to get the wood UP there and then get it DOWN again, and will it fall on somebody if and when it does. Remember the wood will move as it shrinks and dries. I rarely stack more than 6ft high, and even then I often have some support post on either side to keep it from falling.

You can put different length stacks in the pile as long as you put the long ones down first and stack shorter ones above.

I would probably have the same lenghts about 4 to 6 ft long, but would have different widths. And could have a couple of stacks for the shorter ones and longer ones. Probably will try for 6' but will have shorter left overs.

Could I stack newer wood on top of older cuts? I could paint the ends different colors to tell when the pieces were added. BTW what would the best things to paint the ends with.

Bill

 

[oldsaw]

I use the different color end coating to signify batches in the stack. Works well since I am a low volume producer.

Mark

 

[webbill]

Me again Mark

I use the different color end coating to signify batches in the stack. Works well since I am a low volume producer.

Mark

But what do you use? What kind of paint, will anything work and not ruin the wood.

 

[oldsaw]

But what do you use? What kind of paint, will anything work and not ruin the wood.

I just use interior latex paint. Anchorseal is better, but paint has served me well, especially since I usually start the drying process in my garage...and often complete it there as well. Small batches, usually 50-100 bft at a time.

You can usually buy "mis-mixed" paint at any lumber yard/home center for a couple of bucks a gallon. My wife usually keeps me well supplied, so I haven't needed to buy paint especially for the purpose.

Mark

 

[webbill]

Thanks Mark

I just use interior latex paint. Anchorseal is better, but paint has served me well, especially since I usually start the drying process in my garage...and often complete it there as well. Small batches, usually 50-100 bft at a time.

You can usually buy "mis-mixed" paint at any lumber yard/home center for a couple of bucks a gallon. My wife usually keeps me well supplied, so I haven't needed to buy paint especially for the purpose.

Mark

I'll quit pesting you for a while. Thanks again.

 

[oldsaw]

I'll quit pesting you for a while. Thanks again.

Don't mind. You have to start somewhere. I learned all this stuff before I discovered this site and another one I hung out on. The learning curve is pretty steep. See if your local library has, or can get, Will Malloff's "Chainsaw Lumbermaking", although dated, and he spends too much time on contraptions, there is a wealth of information in the book. It's been out of print for years and fetches a good price on ebay or Amazon. I paid $65 for mine which is in perfect shape. I've seen guys pay over $100 for one.

Mark

 

[webbill]

Thanks Mark

Don't mind. You have to start somewhere. I learned all this stuff before I discovered this site and another one I hung out on. The learning curve is pretty steep. See if your local library has, or can get, Will Malloff's "Chainsaw Lumbermaking", although dated, and he spends too much time on contraptions, there is a wealth of information in the book. It's been out of print for years and fetches a good price on ebay or Amazon. I paid $65 for mine which is in perfect shape. I've seen guys pay over $100 for one.

Mark

I'll try to find a cheap copy of the book. The library here is so small I almost have as many books as they do, lol. Some people just like to collect collector items. I have a few Churchhill books worth in excess of $250 each. It seems like they'd print a few more if there was that much demand. There are cheap copies of my Churchill books. But I get a thrill out having a book over eighty years old in my hand.

Does he give much information on drying it out and knowing when it is ready. I know right now with just a beam machine I can get all the lumber I want out of smaller trees with the chain saw I have and for the room I have for drying. I may want to do bigger stuff later, but I'd rather go slow on the milling and get up to speed on the crafts now. If I did get a mill, I would need a larger saw. Right now I wish I had a little one to clear out 1 or 2 inch brush with to get to the real trees. One thing I really need to do is to manage my little woods. Need to clear out lots of brush around trees that potential to grow into nice timber, especially around lots of over 12" diam over 20' eastern red cedars that the trunks are straight and dont taper too much until the very top, not to mention all the oaks and no telling what else that is so high I cant see the leaves very well. I know I have an 8" diam wild cherry that have been dead so long I dont know if it is has any good wood or not, but within a week it will be down where I can find out.

But all in good time, the bigger saw, a mill, and more room to dry will probably happen. Just getting some lumber that is rough to do my crafting stuff with is my priority. Also now I have lots of dead trees (from building a pond, moving in a portable building that dried out their root system, and cutting roots with underground electric line trenchs) that I think still have some good lumber in them. I doubt if I milled all them now I would have enough space to dry them. So if I get serious and want to do more than the beam machine can do I need to have a place to put the wood. And what to do with it all after it drys. I dont know where to sell it and for what crafts I think I could build and sell I'd have years of lumber.

But on the dead ones if I cut them down and top them out until I get to good wood and if I stack them on something off the ground will they store for a long time until I get around to milling them? Should I paint their ends or just leave them be?

I think I might have found a small bandsaw mill that still air drys that is ran by two brothers that I dont think would be more than an hour drive away. I sent them an email maybe I will get lucky.

Remember all this started because I wanted free wood for my crafts until I found out it took over a year to dry. I still want the free wood but there is only so much of me to go around. So first build my crafts for the booth I have access to the last of this month, next try to perserve dead trees so not to waste them, if I havent aready, in any case they need to come down. And mill small pieces for next year. Remember I only need 12" long and at the biggest pieces 12" wide which could be 2 6" pieces. So I can cross cut probably 4' lenghts and use the beam machine and my current chain saw. Then over time build from there.

Wasn't it you that said to go slow. I know about building my little feeders and later houses. Any beginner kid in 7th grade shop could do it. If they dont sell my wife already paid for the booth and I still think the small batch I will build I will be abe to eventually get rid of them. The felling, preserving the logs, milling, and drying is what gets complicated.

Thanks again,

Bill