Spurless palm cleaning.

Hey all. We prune everything without spurs except Syagrus romanzoffiana (queen palms or cocos palms). However AS4373 requires no spurs when pruning anthing so I am checking out different techniques. Anyone have photo's or videos of spurless pruning of cocos palms?

There are couple of techniques in use here. One is simply to climb a ladder to the crown and spur the head only as the outer husks fall as new fronds form. I have issues with climbing a ladder with spurs on and would not want to be the poor SOB holding the base if a climber with spurs on fell on top of him. The other technique is to throw over the crown and haul up an adjustable false crotch. When you are at the top you then use foot loops and a lanyard for positioning.

I havent tried either technique yet and am open to any input or suggestions you may have.

opcorn:

srt

Thow over a throwline. pull through your rope, maybe tape the rope to the trowline as well as tying it so it is tapered and pulls through the fronds.

Tie off one end and ascend up the single line any way you like.SRT chest and hand ascender is easy or footlock if your keen.

Once in the top, tie in with your normal tree climbing system do th e work and either come down on your normal rig or put the single line back in and descend down that.

Just make sure the groundies tie it good at the base of the tree or other suitable point.

Cocos palms are rubbish any way, a few careful spike marks up the back side wont hurt. just descend down so your not spiking them when you come out of the tree as well.

You can use slings, one for your feet and one for your harness and kind of sit stand prussik up the trunk. I have down it on flag poles and its a pain in the ass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX9X3FowdFg

Mr. HE

Don't get any more traditional than that! I love it. I'd like to meet that guy, shake his hand and buy him a beer!

ok here's something look at forestry suppliers . the swiss tree grippers .. its a try tom trees

You can use slings, one for your feet and one for your harness and kind of sit stand prussik up the trunk. I have down it on flag poles and its a pain in the ass.

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tell me more about this method bill, i have a square tubular parking lot light pole at work that needs the bulb changed, cant get to it with a bucket truck or ladder where it is easily so this sounds like a good possibility. by sling i assume you mean like tubular web loops slings? and what kinda knot just a single or double loop prussik knot? any problems with slippage on a smooth pole? would i have better luck with like some loops of 7/16 or 1/2 inch rope than webbing? sorry for so many questions just thought i would pick your brain before i tried it myself

Hddnis said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX9X3FowdFg

Mr. HE

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hey that's james before the beers tom trees

Hddnis said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX9X3FowdFg

Mr. HE

Click to expand...

I would hire that dude if he promised to be quiet

buffalo bill said:

Throw over a throwline. pull through your rope, maybe tape the rope to the trowline as well as tying it so it is tapered and pulls through the fronds.

Tie off one end and ascend up the single line any way you like

Click to expand...

One of the techniques I mentioned is the same principle but insted of srt ascent you just attach a pulley and drt system and insert the false crotch hard up on the fronds. We currently use this for cleaning or removing Washingtonias (cotton palms to us) that have a "skirt" or "beard" over 3 metres long. Still a few wrinkles to irno out when using this for cocos palms.

Cocos palms are rubbish any way, a few careful spike marks up the back side wont hurt. just descend down so your not spiking them when you come out of the tree as well.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I dont like them either other than a source of income. The issue is working to standard. I don't believe spiking these particular palms harms them but AS4373 says otherwise. Sooner or later all goverment and corporate business is going to require this so I am keen to get these spurless techniques figured out way before then.

More ideas please. Photos and videos welcome.

I had a few palms to do last week...
So how do you guys manage to get a line over the head...I've tried and the throwline is so small it gets pulled way down into the tight spots between the petioles and then makes it impossible to get a climbline pulled through after it, the space is just too small.
I may have 15 or 20 Washingtonias coming up, a golf course contract where some of the palms are inacessible to a high lift, and I'd MUCh rather have a line in first than spike up them all, I HATE spiking up palms as they are so skinny and wobbly, not to mention the holes...

Bermie said:

I had a few palms to do last week...
So how do you guys manage to get a line over the head...I've tried and the throwline is so small it gets pulled way down into the tight spots between the petioles and then makes it impossible to get a climbline pulled through after it, the space is just too small.
I may have 15 or 20 Washingtonias coming up, a golf course contract where some of the palms are inacessible to a high lift, and I'd MUCh rather have a line in first than spike up them all, I HATE spiking up palms as they are so skinny and wobbly, not to mention the holes...

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Bigshot is the key for us Bermie.

Take a high shot that doubles the height of the palm because once the line touches a cotton palm (Washingtonia robusta)it slows down fast. Once its over attach a climbing line with a firm exterior, not a soft dynamic line, and pull it through. Walk a distance from the trunk before you pull through to reduce friction. I will post a few links if I can find em so you can see the lines we use. Definately need a tough throw line.

http://www.atraes.com.au/Shop/index.asp?Cat2ID={95DC7256-595D-460B-AFFE-C0121259555C}

This the throwline we use. It is hard to throw it but awesome in a bigshot. You probably need to run it from a spool as shown cos it is nylon and doesnt like to stay neatly in a cube. We use a 16oz throw bag for this line.

http://www.atraes.com.au/Shop/index.asp?Cat2ID={95DC7256-595D-460B-AFFE-C0121259555C}

We climb on Yale XTC fire 1/2 inch. About 2/3rds down the page. It has a nice tight external weave and doesnt seem to be damaged by the thorns in a Washie. It makes reasonable all round climbing line but I have used a few other climbers lines lately and there are better ropes for pruning hardwoods IMO. I feel a new bag of rope coming on.....

If you squint you can see the yellow throwline over the big palm and the throw bag is at the base of the small one. The taller of these two was measured at 16 metres to the underside of the crown. Here that is a good size but I bet you guys get em bigger.



This is me cleaning up. Once I cut a "notch" to work in I swap directions and do it all clockwise. Don't you love it when the only decent photo you can find is when you breach OHS regs? I havent found a way to avoid cutting below knee level in a cotton palm yet.

outofmytree said:

Bigshot is the key for us Bermie.

Take a high shot that doubles the height of the palm because once the line touches a cotton palm (Washingtonia robusta)it slows down fast. Once its over attach a climbing line with a firm exterior, not a soft dynamic line, and pull it through. Walk a distance from the trunk before you pull through to reduce friction. I will post a few links if I can find em so you can see the lines we use. Definately need a tough throw line.

http://www.atraes.com.au/Shop/index.asp?Cat2ID={95DC7256-595D-460B-AFFE-C0121259555C}

This the throwline we use. It is hard to throw it but awesome in a bigshot. You probably need to run it from a spool as shown cos it is nylon and doesnt like to stay neatly in a cube. We use a 16oz throw bag for this line.

http://www.atraes.com.au/Shop/index.asp?Cat2ID={95DC7256-595D-460B-AFFE-C0121259555C}

We climb on Yale XTC fire 1/2 inch. About 2/3rds down the page. It has a nice tight external weave and doesnt seem to be damaged by the thorns in a Washie. It makes reasonable all round climbing line but I have used a few other climbers lines lately and there are better ropes for pruning hardwoods IMO. I feel a new bag of rope coming on.....

If you squint you can see the yellow throwline over the big palm and the throw bag is at the base of the small one. The taller of these two was measured at 16 metres to the underside of the crown. Here that is a good size but I bet you guys get em bigger.

This is me cleaning up. Once I cut a "notch" to work in I swap directions and do it all clockwise. Don't you love it when the only decent photo you can find is when you breach OHS regs? I havent found a way to avoid cutting below knee level in a cotton palm yet.

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Great pics,and looks like you were on the way to doing a real nice job on a couple of nasties.

Been a year or more since i trimmed any that bad,and that is perfectly ok by me.
Any critters?
I assume you were able to get the smaller one from the same T.I.P. ?
I noticed you got long sleeves on to protect your arms from the otherwise inevitable cuts and scrapes,,,,,very smart.

Hope it paid well for you .I allways think I am charging a lot for them,but in reality,you can't charge enough for palms like that.

What I was wearing in the photo is what I wear every working day winter or summer. I can handle the heat much better than I can handle pulling out thorns!

Actually the big one got me when I took out the head. I thought all the green fronds were gone and found out I was wrong as the 1st 1 metre block went sailing over with 1 half cut frond attached. It went straight for the jugular! Had the doctor cut the thorn out a week later cos I didnt like the gleam in my wifes eye when she offered to take a scalpel to my throat....

I now sleep very lightly...

outofmytree said:

Had the doctor cut the thorn out a week later cos I didnt like the gleam in my wifes eye when she offered to take a scalpel to my throat....

I now sleep very lightly...

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I use XTC fire as well.
I have never seen a Washie here with as big a skirt as that! Great pics!

So when you have fired the throwline over and are pulling your XTC through, you seem to manage so that the throwline doesn't get pulled so far down into the crown that it gets jammed? Is that a result of pulling from pretty far back, not from close to the base of the trunk?

Are you working down on SRT, or do you put in a false crotch and work doubled?

Bermie said:

I use XTC fire as well.
I have never seen a Washie here with as big a skirt as that! Great pics!

So when you have fired the throwline over and are pulling your XTC through, you seem to manage so that the throwline doesn't get pulled so far down into the crown that it gets jammed? Is that a result of pulling from pretty far back, not from close to the base of the trunk?

Exactly

Are you working down on SRT, or do you put in a false crotch and work doubled?

False crotch using dfl termination, quad lock karabiner and an open sheave pulley.

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One point well worth mentioning is the swap over from false crotch to installed drt with pulley. I am paranoid about the possibility of cutting the srt line so I ascend on the false crotch then swap out at the head BEFORE I start cutting. I take up 2 wirecore lanyards and use them to pull me in tight to the head, then install a cambium saver with the drt system attached. Then I drop the original srt line and the spare wirecore lanyard and get into it. I am still tweaking this technique so any input would be great.

Spikeless Pole climbing

markct said:

tell me more about this method bill, i have a square tubular parking lot light pole at work that needs the bulb changed, cant get to it with a bucket truck or ladder where it is easily so this sounds like a good possibility. by sling i assume you mean like tubular web loops slings? and what kinda knot just a single or double loop prussik knot? any problems with slippage on a smooth pole? would i have better luck with like some loops of 7/16 or 1/2 inch rope than webbing? sorry for so many questions just thought i would pick your brain before i tried it myself

Click to expand...

I have changed flags on 2 inaccessible flagpoles using 2 prussik loops made of old climb rope one 11mm kernmantle and the other was 1/2 inch newengland safetyblue. Any soft rope or web would do. 3 wraps around the pole worked fine.

However your attachment to the prussiks to your feet and harness need to be adjustable as the pole gets thinner as you go up so your prussiks get longer. I used a shunt or micro grab on one or the other for this with foot loops and harness attached to the adjusters.

You just need to play around with it

So how long is your false crotch (now that just sounds wrong...), long enough to be below the confluence of petioles at the crown?

Do you ever have any problems pulling it out when you are finished...again, getting it to feed through all the leaf bases?

My cambium saver is not long enough to get through the crown of a lot of palms and hang below so the rope feeds easily...guess I'll have to make one from spare line...hmmm but then knots might get stuck pulling it out...hmmmm

Retrieval is the exact reverse of installation. Once the work is done I walk back up to the crown, haul up the original single line, lay it through the head and reattach the biner + pulley. Belay myself down and retrieve the line nice and slow. Once again if you are a good distance from the trunk, say equivalent to the height, then the line does not snag.

Oh and my false crotch is long enough to do the job.

This is the false crotch on srt



And this the false crotch attached to my 1.2 metre cambium saver



Not much difference in height relative to the new growth. This was a removal of course so the green fronds were removed for my convenience rather that the health of the plant.

I have found the speed of installation improving with every job and am close to the overall speed using an EWP when you include the unloading and postioning of the smaller 14metre or 19 metre self propelled units. Given that these machines cost $330 per day or there abouts its more money in my pocket and believe it or not, a really fun climb.

Getting back to the original reason for this thread, Has anyone got some thoughts on adapting this or any other spurless technique to cocos or queen palms?

How about use of footloops made from prussik cord? I refuse to buy an ascender as these are referred to as "old man" climbing tools around here.