Form and techinque for snap cutting!

I would like to know the technique for cutting pine logs 10 to 16 feet while in the tree? With common sense involved, hinge cut or snap cut?, without sticking the pole in the ground. Specifices on the snap cut!

trecutter5 said:

I would like to know the technique for cutting pine logs 10 to 16 feet while in the tree? With common sense involved, hinge cut or snap cut?, without sticking the pole in the ground. Specifices on the snap cut!

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as she goes over flip it with your hand. that should give it the extra rotation to get it to land flat.

takes some practice but eventually you'll get your logs to land flat.

personally i would shy away from making a snap cut with that much wood above you. too much room for error. fell it off the stem, them flip it as she goes over.

good luck with it.

vote for hinge

with 16 feet above you a hinge will allow you to set when the hinge breaks. It will also set its rotation and forward velocity at that point, theoretically you will be better able to predict the point and plane it touches down. With shorter peices 5 feet or so I put in a a little relief cut so the log does not peel the just direct the rotation with my left hand as I cut through. Practice makes perfect and Im far from perfect myself.

Depends on a lot of factors. A 16 foot log cut from way up high will break if it lands flat on hard ground, unless it is beefy. Better to have them nose in.

A smallish log can be pushed or pulled on as it's going over to affect its spin rate. Won't work on a heavy section, unless you're Superman. I't's helpful to know the physics behind falling wood, the variables being the section length relative to the height it is being cut from. Gerry Beranek has a basic formula in his great treeman's bible "Fundamentals of General Tree Work"

If a section is under 10-12 feet and ~ 12 inches, I snap cut, otherwise, use a hinge. If there's no target behind the drop zone, I don't bother with a rope for smallish sections under 20-26 feet. Just put in a deep face and let the wood weight bring it over.

Mitchell said:

............ direct the rotation with my left hand as I cut through. Practice makes perfect and Im far from perfect myself.

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Sounds like you are one handing the chainsaw...?

Trecutter5, this is very dangerous unless you are super strong, it exposes your chest area (underarm to belly) to the kickback zone... try to have both hands on the saw all the time, relief cut, backcut, dump the saw, push. If it has weight and will start to go on the backcut, then use a wedge cut, gives you time to make the saw safe before helping it go.

Trecutter5 - Where in NC are you? Are you new to this business? The guys here have given you some great advice, but maybe seeing it in action will help more.

Mitchell said:

with 16 feet above you a hinge will allow you to set when the hinge breaks. It will also set its rotation and forward velocity at that point, theoretically you will be better able to predict the point and plane it touches down. With shorter peices 5 feet or so I put in a a little relief cut so the log does not peel the just direct the rotation with my left hand as I cut through. Practice makes perfect and Im far from perfect myself.

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Its bad when I don't think you make any sense either buddy.
But you have to know them all and when to use what you know. My fav is just a back cut with my 026 and let it start to go over and time the rip so it falls flat. 026 has a 18 inch bar only but I use the 25" inch on the 44 to do it to.
I just polished off the silver maple and when the log came down what was left was hollow so I stuck my head in there and screamed at the top of my lungs HELLO!. No one was home and I looked up just in time to see one of the groundies running full bore across the lawn to stop the log which was rolling down the embankment and into the road. Man, why do they have to go all the way on the other side of the yard to watch me?
Many variables, many cuts. Just think about it first.

Mitchell said:

with 16 feet above you a hinge will allow you to set when the hinge breaks. It will also set its rotation and forward velocity at that point, theoretically you will be better able to predict the point and plane it touches down. With shorter peices 5 feet or so I put in a a little relief cut so the log does not peel the just direct the rotation with my left hand as I cut through. Practice makes perfect and Im far from perfect myself.

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Same here, no snap cuts on anything that big. After doing it many times you will be able to land wood the way you want. Snap cuts are ok, but never for logs. Undercut, backcut. Treemandans way is asking for problems, only use it for short pieces. When I block down big wood I just cut right through with the saw, firewood blocks that is. Logs, sometimes I cut with on hand and push with the other, sometimes you need a guy with a rope, depends on the lean and size.

As far as sticking it in the ground, I have stuck it in the ground a few times, some had to be pulled out with a truck, a couple hit water lines, oh well. When a big log hits the ground flat, its quite satisfying. If they land on the lawn or other softish ground, they rarely break. Snap cuts are over rated, and waste a lot of time if you are doing removals. I only use them when the block is too small (light) to stay in place after its cut through and I have to throw it into a tight spot.

clearance said:

Same here, no snap cuts on anything that big. After doing it many times you will be able to land wood the way you want. Snap cuts are ok, but never for logs. Undercut, backcut. Treemandans way is asking for problems, only use it for short pieces. When I block down big wood I just cut right through with the saw, firewood blocks that is. Logs, sometimes I cut with on hand and push with the other, sometimes you need a guy with a rope, depends on the lean and size.

As far as sticking it in the ground, I have stuck it in the ground a few times, some had to be pulled out with a truck, a couple hit water lines, oh well. When a big log hits the ground flat, its quite satisfying. If they land on the lawn or other softish ground, they rarely break. Snap cuts are over rated, and waste a lot of time if you are doing removals. I only use them when the block is too small (light) to stay in place after its cut through and I have to throw it into a tight spot.

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Please describe how you think I am asking for problems.

treemandan said:

Please describe how you think I am asking for problems.

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The tree can split vertically as the piece falls. The cut piece can fall before it is cut all the way through, tearing a chunk of the tree you are in off, partially. Possibly hitting you in the legs or pulling you into the stem.
I have observed this in a small way when I was stripping and chunking birches. Instead of waiting untill my saw was all the way through I pushed the piece off with my left, it tore and hung. Could be a bad scene with a log. With logs or anything other than firewood sized chunks I use an undercut.

No disrespect meant to you, its works for you, could be a problem. Like one handing, been cut, still do it.

clearance said:

The tree can split vertically as the piece falls. The cut piece can fall before it is cut all the way through, tearing a chunk of the tree you are in off, partially. Possibly hitting you in the legs or pulling you into the stem.
I have observed this in a small way when I was stripping and chunking birches. Instead of waiting untill my saw was all the way through I pushed the piece off with my left, it tore and hung. Could be a bad scene with a log. With logs or anything other than firewood sized chunks I use an undercut.

No disrespect meant to you, its works for you, could be a problem. Like one handing, been cut, still do it.

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You could call my momma a whore and it would not disrespect me, as long as you could give me a good reason why you think so. she ain't though but if its the truth; who am i to argue.
I don't let it get out of control with those one pass cuts and to be honest the only way that I can do it is cause I can. If it looks good its getting the one and done.If it don't look good I do something else.
I really don't recall the last time I let any branch peel more than an inch or 2 unless it was a mistake, a real bad one. Like I said I don't recall. In fact when someone says" I am just going to "peel" it over." I get nervous and say" No your not." You peel an orange, you place proper cuts in proper spots.
Want to hear about my massive undercuts? Make a 12 inch dia limb 30 feet long jump like a marlin, sounds nice to. sounds like wood going Screaaach! Snap! Woosh! Crash! At the end its a clean cut. Makes em think they are getting there monies worth.

Some good advice here. 16' is pretty big to experiment with if you are not familiar with proper cutting techniques. Start small 4'-6' when they are landing flat 90% of the time go bigger permiting your work area is sufficient of course.

Good for you Dan, whatever rocks your world. For the guy asking the question, use an undercut.

clearance said:

The tree can split vertically as the piece falls. The cut piece can fall before it is cut all the way through, tearing a chunk of the tree you are in off, partially. Possibly hitting you in the legs or pulling you into the stem.
I have observed this in a small way when I was stripping and chunking birches. Instead of waiting untill my saw was all the way through I pushed the piece off with my left, it tore and hung. Could be a bad scene with a log. With logs or anything other than firewood sized chunks I use an undercut.

No disrespect meant to you, its works for you, could be a problem. Like one handing, been cut, still do it.

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oh and please be real careful with that birch technique, sounds gruesome.

trecutter5 said:

I would like to know the technique for cutting pine logs 10 to 16 feet while in the tree? With common sense involved, hinge cut or snap cut?, without sticking the pole in the ground. Specifices on the snap cut!

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Ok try this. Take a 10 foot section with a tag line on top, make a nice snap cut, pull your saw out just as the back cut starts to close backwards and have the guys on the ground tug it off while you watch it go.
Or make a narrow notch condusive to height and calculated to break at the proper angle to acheive a " flat landing".
Or just make a back cut and just before in closes on itself jamm a piece of bark in there and finish the cut. Put your saw on your hip and push it.
Or (if it has some lean) do the one and done like a ginsu through a head of lettuce. just remember to keep the r's up and your eyes open. cut to remove the inconsequential parts first and save the R's for the end buddy, you are going to want them. don't take your hand off a rear handle saw to push anything but the off button.

treemandan said:

Its bad when I don't think you make any sense either buddy.
But you have to know them all and when to use what you know. My fav is just a back cut with my 026 and let it start to go over and time the rip so it falls flat. 026 has a 18 inch bar only but I use the 25" inch on the 44 to do it to.

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what doesn't make sense treemandan? Not trying to be defensive. For the record, I do one hand rounds off at times Bermie, if there small and the bar tip is well clear and they are back leaning. 90% of my round cutting time is with two hands on the saw.

Perhaps I was not clear. As the round is ready to go, and the chain has wound down, your left hand [assuming your right is on the throttle] can push the wood and direct the rotation simultaniously. This whole proces, from chain winding down to pushing can take only a second.

Exceptions aside, the only time I do not use a relief cut are on rounds I know the saw has enouph power to cut through clean; depends on the saw im using. Another scenerio would be with big dbh rounds cut on a directional slop 15 to 20 %, [wedged to keep the saw from pinching if there big buggers] that allows the round to slide off.

OK Mitchell...you do your thing...stay safe!

Mitchell said:

what doesn't make sense treemandan? Not trying to be defensive. For the record, I do one hand rounds off at times Bermie, if there small and the bar tip is well clear and they are back leaning. 90% of my round cutting time is with two hands on the saw.

Perhaps I was not clear. As the round is ready to go, and the chain has wound down, your left hand [assuming your right is on the throttle] can push the wood and direct the rotation simultaniously. This whole proces, from chain winding down to pushing can take only a second.

Exceptions aside, the only time I do not use a relief cut are on rounds I know the saw has enouph power to cut through clean; depends on the saw im using. Another scenerio would be with big dbh rounds cut on a directional slop 15 to 20 %, [wedged to keep the saw from pinching if there big buggers] that allows the round to slide off.

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If I take one hand off a saw that has its chain moving at any speed I cannot get that hand to go above/ over the bar to push anything. I ttried it , just can't do it.
you should stop too, you are looking to catch that chain under your arm pit.

I was taught, "when in doubt, rope it out". If you are looking to get 10 to 16 foot pine LOGS down (one piece), I would have a top line attached to each section and I would put a proper notch in each one. Have your groundie put a steady pull on them and away you go. I would not snap cut such a large piece. BTW

Proper snap cutting, as I was taught, for wood, requires a LEVEL cut in the direction you are going to SNAP the wood. Watch the wood as you move through, when it starts to sit back on the saw, turn your saw off and remove it. Then come around to the other side, and slightly below the cut, place another cut with the saw. The wood will teeter back on the larger cut. Turn your saw off again, and hang it up. Take your hands, and break the wood off in the direction you want it to land. Look below, and push it off. That is a proper snap cut. The business of pushing it as you are cutting it, I believe, will come back to bite you, and not in the naughty way.

My two cents.

definently notch it. a hummboldt(sp) workes nice to make the log land flat. if you snap cut there is always the possibilty of the log peeling. If you have a lanyard around the trunk instead of a limb when this happens, you get pulled in two pieces. fun huh