His & Hers "dead Saw" Rebuild - FAIL!

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Bounty Hunter

Bounty Hunter

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Everything was going along pretty well...the new bearings and seals were in, the cases have been painted with a color-matched oil-based enamel, and all the needed new parts were here and ready to go...se we got set up to install the pistons and cylinder heads.

We got our work area clean and ready, all the tools set out...which included a cheesey looking piston ring compressor we got from Bailey's...but a dry run seemed to prove the cheap plastic tool would work.

The new head gaskets got a light coat of gasket sealer and set on, and we started to install the wrist pin in the new piston...

Then realized just how difficult putting those tiny wire snap rings in the wrist pin bore of the piston was going to be. The service manual calls for a very specialized Stihl tool...which we obviously didn't have...but i figured we could carefully set one end of the snap ring in the bore and kinda work it in with a needle-nose pliar...WRONG!

After an hour of hillbilly engineering, we were no closer to getting one snap ring in...:bang:

So rather than risk damaging the tiny snap rings and the piston, we threw in the towel.

So Brothers and Sisters of the chainsaw world, do we gotta buy an expensive tool or is there another way?

Thanks,
Yer frustrated and dumb Bounty Hunter
 
i use my smallest set of needle-nose pliers. i set one end of the circlip in the groove, grab the other end and "twist" my wrist as i put downward pressure on the ring. once i get the ring part of the way in, i use a carb screwdriver to finish seating it. remember to ALWAYS keep a finger over the ring or it will fly off to the fartherest corner of your shop. some people recommend working under a plastic bag to catch wayward circlips.
 
It's not that easy, BH, but once you get it, you'll get it forever. A very thin needle nose will work, but my favorite is a hemostat, because they are even smaller and they LOCK... a major asset. I also take great pains to make sure i don't get a "flier." Once those babies go "sproooiiiinnnng" you may or may not have a serious delay on your hands! Either do this operation in a very small clean area (bathroom floor?) or cover your efforts with a large, clear ziplock bag (thanks, Matt, that worked great). If you do get a flier, a big magnet (I use a small parts tray) is a real help.

DO NOT THROW IN THE TOWEL. You just need to refine your technique. Go show Mrs Bounty Hunter that you got this!
 
Last edited:
Thanks nmurph for the reply...but when we tried the needle-nose way the darn circlip would rotate in the bore, and not even begin to go in the groove. The p & c are "NWP" big bore for 440 Stihl...are the circlips or grooves any different from stock? Can we "tweak" the circlips any to help get them in?

:cheers:
 
I simply use a Stihl carb adjusting screwdriver, no mods to it. Others have found that it helps to put a small notch in it. I would think that would certainly help. Just make sure you don't bend the clip. Yes, it has to flex, but it should not bend. If it does, it should be replaced. Good luck with it!
 
We just did a little thread on here last week and several fellows has some good ideas, I never use needlenose pliers as they will require much more flex of the circlip than the push into place method of placing one side of the clip in the bore, cover all but the little bit sticking out the side that is not in the bore with your thumb, press down forcefully and with a small screwdriver with a small notch filed in it I push the high side in. Have done many hundreds this way and never lost or distorted a clip so far.
Piopneerguy600
 
pioneerguy600 said:
We just did a little thread on here last week and several fellows has some good ideas, I never use needlenose pliers as they will require much more flex of the circlip than the push into place method of placing one side of the clip in the bore, cover all but the little bit sticking out the side that is not in the bore with your thumb, press down forcefully and with a small screwdriver with a small notch filed in it I push the high side in. Have done many hundreds this way and never lost or distorted a clip so far.
Piopneerguy600
Click to expand...

+1

:agree2:
 
Takes some practice to get the procedure down but once you do things go pretty well. Really isnt too difficult unless you make it so. I've had my share of problems but I've never had one I couldnt get eventually. Try putting one clip in the piston before you try to put it on the rod. Another option if you still can't get it would be to see if your local dealer is willing to help you out.
 
pioneerguy600 said:
We just did a little thread on here last week and several fellows has some good ideas, I never use needlenose pliers as they will require much more flex of the circlip than the push into place method of placing one side of the clip in the bore, cover all but the little bit sticking out the side that is not in the bore with your thumb, press down forcefully and with a small screwdriver with a small notch filed in it I push the high side in. Have done many hundreds this way and never lost or distorted a clip so far.
Piopneerguy600
Click to expand...

+2 And relax...:)
 
I had an extra set of really small needle-nose jewelry making pliers. I cut a small groove near the end of each jaw and presto. Nothing worse than circlips flying south! Before I started one end of the clip and then pushed the other in with carb. adj. screw driver while holding my thumb over the circlip. Never give up. Good luck........Bob:dizzy:
 
Bounty Hunter said:
Everything was going along pretty well...the new bearings and seals were in, the cases have been painted with a color-matched oil-based enamel, and all the needed new parts were here and ready to go...se we got set up to install the pistons and cylinder heads.

We got our work area clean and ready, all the tools set out...which included a cheesey looking piston ring compressor we got from Bailey's...but a dry run seemed to prove the cheap plastic tool would work.

The new head gaskets got a light coat of gasket sealer and set on, and we started to install the wrist pin in the new piston...

Then realized just how difficult putting those tiny wire snap rings in the wrist pin bore of the piston was going to be. The service manual calls for a very specialized Stihl tool...which we obviously didn't have...but i figured we could carefully set one end of the snap ring in the bore and kinda work it in with a needle-nose pliar...WRONG!

After an hour of hillbilly engineering, we were no closer to getting one snap ring in...:bang:

So rather than risk damaging the tiny snap rings and the piston, we threw in the towel.

So Brothers and Sisters of the chainsaw world, do we gotta buy an expensive tool or is there another way?

Thanks,
Yer frustrated and dumb Bounty Hunter
Click to expand...

Relax, you can do it. I have a whole set of those clip installing tools, they cost about 90.00 apiece, guess what, I use the little orange screwdriver to install those clips. Takes some patience but the little screwdriver works about as good as the special tool. Just press in one side of the clip into the groove. Place the edge of your thumb over it and hold it in while taking the screwdriver and pressing the other side in and push down, nothing to it. Note, the gap on the clip is suppose to point at 12 o'clock or 6 o'clock, why I haven't a clue but told thats how its suppose to be installed....
 
THALL10326 said:
Relax, you can do it. I have a whole set of those clip installing tools, they cost about 90.00 apiece, guess what, I use the little orange screwdriver to install those clips. Takes some patience but the little screwdriver works about as good as the special tool. Just press in one side of the clip into the groove. Place the edge of your thumb over it and hold it in while taking the screwdriver and pressing the other side in and push down, nothing to it. Note, the gap on the clip is suppose to point at 12 o'clock or 6 o'clock, why I haven't a clue but told thats how its suppose to be installed....
Click to expand...

Now you have me wondering about that 6 and 12 o'clock thing. When I was in college we built a bunch of Mopar 340s, they have floating connecting rod pins...we were told to always install the snap rings in the pistons with the opening toward the crank. Like Tom said...I have no idea why. I did it the way I was taught and as far as I know they stayed put.
 
mastermind7864 said:
Now you have me wondering about that 6 and 12 o'clock thing. When I was in college we built a bunch of Mopar 340s, they have floating connecting rod pins...we were told to always install the snap rings in the pistons with the opening toward the crank. Like Tom said...I have no idea why. I did it the way I was taught and as far as I know they stayed put.
Click to expand...

I was told the same thing with V-8s...and the stock answer was that in a reciprocating action like a piston, where the direction changes REALLY FAST the weight of the snap ring (however small) would actully have some stored kinetic energy...and flex if the ends opened to the sides, but support itself when the ends are either top or bottom. I guess that make some sense...

And thanks you all for the replys and hints...We are gonna go home tonight and put them to the test. I got some hemostats, jewler's needlenose, carb screwdrivers...armed and dangerous.

As bsnelling said, the NRP circlips may be thicker than the stock ones...I think that's true...so could we put the stock type in the NRP pistons, to make the task easier? (We wouldn't want to...but as a last resort?)
 
Bounty Hunter said:
As bsnelling said, the NRP circlips may be thicker than the stock ones...I think that's true...so could we put the stock type in the NRP pistons, to make the task easier? (We wouldn't want to...but as a last resort?)
Click to expand...

I would not. The groove is probably larger, which would leave the OEM clip loose, and possible let the wrist pin or clip itself come out during operation.
 
don't throw in the towel, but put that towel under the piston over the crankcase.
Having a clip go 'ping' off sucks, but as long as you here it hit the shop somewhere, life is good. Put in another one.
It is when I don't here it land, that I wonder did it bounce downward into the tiniest path into the crankcase.

I destroyed a 2 cycle Yam motorcycle engine that way. so now I am more paranoid.

and yes, the opening at 3 or 9 oclock leaves the one half of the clip cantilevered out like a diving board. Under high G forces at top and bottom when piston changes direction, that clip weighs many times its actual weight and in theory at least the forces could lift half the clip away from its groove.
with opening up or down, neither part of teh clip is cantilevered out.
 
Hillbilly Engineering, We is one!

Dude,

Don't let the clips get ya down. We have all been there and all it takes is practice. The following photos are some of the tools I've used, and will continue to use for the installation of cir clips, and other small things on a saw.

The item on the left is the standard Stihl tuning screwdriver. The one I have with a notch in it, can't find it. Thats O.K., I have like 30 more. Easy to notch. The others are the cheap straight and 45 degree angle picks.

attachment.php


More picks at a 90 degree angle.

attachment.php


Two of the most important tools you can have, hemostats and small needle nose.

attachment.php


Comparison small to standard.

attachment.php


It's all in the technique. I zinged a cir clip out one day, hit the dog right in the butt, musta barked for two minutes. I looked all over the shop for that clip, :bang: musta cussed for ten minutes. Dog thought it was funny as crap.
There's been alot of good advice on this thread, hope ya get your and her saws back together.

:givebeer:
 

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