CSM adjustment Locking mechanisms

As predicted by you all, the addiction has taken root and is flourishing. I am in the process of designing a new CS mill and want to pick your collective brains about locking mechanisms for mill adjustments.

Because it is unlikley to be changed all that often I'm happy enough to lock bar length on the mill using bolts. In terms of the depth of cut adjustment, I'm planning on using an all-thread/screw type of mechanism but still think it will need locking. However, instead of more bolts, I'm wondering if the depth adjustment locking mechanism might be possible using cams or locking-vice-plier type mechanisms.

BTW the mill is mostly going to be made from Ally.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Go with a standard clamping type mechanism. You don't want to make any limitations in how you can mill. For instance, my mill is most often set on 1 1/8", 5/4, 8/4, and 4 1/2" which is typical for the first cut with a 2x as a guide board. But, I'll often have call for something thicker or thinner. That's part of the benefit of having your own mill.

If you use an all-thread type adjustment, it will be time consuming to adjust and hard to line up correctly. Kind of works against what you will normally do. It's best to have the ability to quickly and accurately adjust to your current needs. You could probably make a cam system work, but you would be better off welding a piece of bar onto the nut to make an adjusting handle so you are "wrench free" and going from there.

Mark

I would think vibration might cause cam type locks to open on their own unless they were real tight. I agree with oldsaw on this one.

I'm not as experienced as either of the 2 previous contributors, but I can tell you that a CSM puts out some pretty wicked vibrations. I had a couple of the (VERY) tight bolts on my alaskan come undone in the middle of cutting a hard hickory slab. It seemed to be cutting pretty smoothly too! They were certainly as tight or more than the factory torque settings.

I like oldsaw's idea of welding on a handle onto the adjustment nut; I don't have a welder, so I've started carrying a cheapo ratchet wrench from one of those roadside emergency bags that I won't stress over if I lose it in the woods.

Thanks Guys, I have reattached many bits that have vibrated off CS to appreciate how much they vibrate and my limited experience with a CSM suggests they are even more susceptible. I like the idea of a lever welded to nuts/bolts and will leave the cam idea for an experiment at another time.

Cheers

BobL said:

As predicted by you all, the addiction has taken root and is flourishing. I am in the process of designing a new CS mill and want to pick your collective brains about locking mechanisms for mill adjustments.

BTW the mill is mostly going to be made from Ally.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Here is how I have done mine an all aluiminum model and a steel model in the
orange, all have rollersfitted which makes starting and finishing easier and the going three times easier, all have 325 nose conversions for a much faster cut through the log.
After the top handles have been turned to the required depth an elastic bungee is located between the two handles to stop things from moving.

Railomatic said:

Here is how I have done mine an all aluiminum model and a steel model i the
orange, with rollers which make the going three times easier.
After the handles have been turned to the required depth an elastic bungee is located between the two handles to stop things from moving.

Click to expand...

More photo's of the same.

Railomatic said:

More photo's of the same.

Click to expand...

And more of the same of the same, I have never had anything vibrate loose in the ten or so years I have been making my own CSM's, they are some of the best CSM's I have ever made,
cost is nothing to me, quality and ease of use is paramount, I can make myself a CSM cheaper than it is to buy an Alaskan.

Railomatic said:

And more of the same of the same.

Click to expand...

Again more of the same of the same.

Thanks railo, some good ideas there. On closer inspection it looks like you don't have any locking mechanisms for the vertical or depth adjustment, you just clip the two winders together with a bungee cord. It doesn't sound like it would suffice but the more I think about it why not!!! My question is then I guess how do you stop the vertical colums rattling around under the CS vibration?

At first I wasn't sure about the screw adjustment mechanism but I put on my small mill against the advice of those who said it would be too slow and I find I really like it. It's not that slow and it does enable quite precise depth adjustment. Even when using it on my mini-rail system for cutting short logs, when I have to adjust it after every minislab cut, I don't find it too onerous.

Thanks again and Cheers

BobL said:

Thanks railo, some good ideas there. On closer inspection it looks like you don't have any locking mechanisms for the vertical or depth adjustment, you just clip the two winders together with a bungee cord. It doesn't sound like it would suffice but the more I think about it why not!!! My question is then I guess how do you stop the vertical colums rattling around under the CS vibration?

Thanks again and Cheers

Click to expand...

The whole system is designed to flex as the mill is cutting, so you have very little vibration overall, if you tighten things up solid like an Alaskan, this is when every vibration is sent through the steel, my mill is very smooth and vibration free almost.
The elasatic bungees are only there to stop the handles turning, the all thread and its threaded block is what holds everything in place, in tests of over a thousand hours nothing has ever broken or worn away, dare I say it is almost idiot proof.

BobL said:

At first I wasn't sure about the screw adjustment mechanism but I put on my small mill against the advice of those who said it would be too slow and I find I really like it. It's not that slow and it does enable quite precise depth adjustment. Even when using it on my mini-rail system for cutting short logs, when I have to adjust it after every minislab cut, I don't find it too onerous.

Thanks again and Cheers

Click to expand...

Hi Bob, yeah I was thinking the threaded height adjustment looked a bit fiddly and slow to adjust, but after my last session of milling I had to change the thickness nearly every cut and it was a pain in the butt loosening, tightening, measuring, loosening, tightening, blah blah with my simple bolt'n'tube system.

On my next mill I will definitely be including the threaded height adjustment.

Railomatic, great pics and info,. You have been a busy boy. Very neat pro looking mills.
I notice most of your mills don't have a bar/handle in the middle but always one on the end of the mill. I guess you always have two man operation when milling?

Also sounds like your mills have minimal vibrations, but have you ever considered designing a little AV in to the handles? just like on Stihl saws?

Something that I was surprised about that no one commented on when I showed the pics on the mini-rail system was the white HDPE skids I added to the bottom of the mill to minimize friction on the metal on metal contact between the mill and the rails. It did make the mill a whole lot easier to move and at times it felt the whole thing was on ball bearings, even a bit disconcerting. After cutting a couple of slabs I ended up taking the skids off and that little bit of extra friction gave me better control.

OTOH with a bigger powerhead like an 076 and a bigger allround mill I'm thinking of reconsidering the use the HDPE skids on the new mill. with a bit of practice it might be a useful body energy saving measure over a day of milling although I have no illusions that Aussie Hardwood is gonna be tough with or without skids or even rollers.

I have considered rollers but I don't want to standardise on a single length bar and only have room for one more mill in my relationship with the missus. (Ha - are they "famous last words" or What!!!!)

Cheers

Bob wrote:

OTOH with a bigger powerhead like an 076 and a bigger allround mill I'm thinking of reconsidering the use the HDPE skids on the new mill. with a bit of practice it might be a useful body energy saving measure over a day of milling although I have no illusions that Aussie Hardwood is gonna be tough with or without skids or even rollers.

I have considered rollers but I don't want to standardise on a single length bar and only have room for one more mill in my relationship with the missus. (Ha - are they "famous last words" or What!!!!)

Cheers[/QUOTE]

Rollers every time Bob, also a site roller to stop friction when the saw bites and pulls into the side of the log, very easy run along the log with half the energy used with other systems on the market.

Four rollers instead of one rail, which gives a perfectly located mill, before the chain and bar start cutting, and the same at the other end when finishing.

No need to standardise, just buy a mill to do all you need, 36" is a good size to have, which will cut down to half the width of the mill comfortably without any unsteadiness, don't forget a 36" mill will still handle larger logs, say 40 inch, when you get down to max width, which would be at least 2/5ths of the log then turn her on its side to finish off.

Any bigger than 36" and things really start to slow down, best to keep the saw buzzing and cutting rather than struggling.

Raily , does the white wheel have a ball bearing ? http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51270&d=1179265941

info

scottr said:

Raily , does the white wheel have a ball bearing ? http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51270&d=1179265941

Click to expand...

No the white side wheel is made from high grade nylon and has a solid axle which runs nice and smooth with a little lube, it sits right against the bar, so has a lot of area support for when the pressure is against it.

This makes life that much easier when the saw is puling hard sideways in the cut, save heaps of energy for the operator, because your not wrestling with the saw trying to ride over the rough edges on the side of the log.

I wouldn't be without one of these nowadays.

Raily , thanks for the information .

Finally I started the new mill (WIP)

I was going to start a new thread but thought I'd just append the story to this one.

I still haven't really decided how to clamp my height adjustment but it hasn't stopped ally boat building BIL and myself from making a start in a new chainsaw mill. I hope not too much of this post is like teaching granny to suck egs.

I started by removing the clutch and chain brake cover. The standard cover is replaced with this 12mm thick ally plate.



On top of this plate is placed the base of the mill which connects via the ally depth of cut tubes to the rails. The base is made from 6mm thick ally plate. In its final form this base will be gussted in a number of places for extra strength. I'm not happy with the amount of thread the bar bolts are hanging on by. Either I will make a thinner underplate or replace the bar bolts with longer ones.



The rails are made from a 40 x 44 x 3mm unistrut commonly used on highway signs. The middle cross piece is also a piece of the same unistrut to maintain a constant level when starting and stopping slabbing cuts. This unistrut is a "C-section, atop a, square hollow section" so it is very strong. The C-section fits a 10mm bolt and if cup head bolts are use, the square shank section near the head fits neatly in the groove and makes it really easy to tighten the bolts.

The end cross pieces are made from 70 x 40 x 3 mm thick ally angle and are what the 25mm diameter x 3 mm thick vertical ally tubes attach to. The height adjustment (not shown) will be by allthread rods and cranks as per my small CSM.


The length of the mill was determined by the length (3m) of unistrut I had available. I basically cut off a 300mm piece for the middle cross piece leaving me 2.7 m which I cut in half so the mill is 1.35m long and can hold a chainsaw bar that is ~1.25m long.



Below is as much as we've done so far all just aligned but not fixed in place. Missing is the outboard vertical height adjuster and bar clamping tubes and a couple of other bits and pieces. There is actually very little welding involved in this mill as it is mainly bolted together so it comes apart quickly for easy transport and storage.



The chainsaw bar shown looks tiny but is 750 mm long but I am eventually looking at buying a bar around 1.05 m long.

Laying it all out like this has enabled me to identify a couple of problems including one of the oil cap access being blocked when boards thinner than 50mm thick are being milled. Fortunately the key welds have not been made and I can fix this without too much problem.

Working with ally is a lot easier than I thought. I had a go at the ally welding, it was not that hard, but I guess having a $7500 welder has got to make it easy. The rest of the tools he uses are mainly woodworking power or air tools (Sliding compound mitre saw, circular saws [he cuts massive 3 m x 3m sheets with just a circular] router, drills, sanders, drill jigsaw, etc. Other tools he uses are oxy to heat before bending, angle grinder and something called a "die grinder" which looks like a large dremel - I gotta get me one of those.

The next time we have any time to work on this is next weekend - anyway I hope you can get something from this "experiment"

Cheers

Howdy all,

I have been reading the discussions in this forum for several months now am learning alot from you guys and am pretty addicted to it and my Alaskan CSM. Thanks for all the info and pictures as well.

BobL I know your not in the US but where are you getting the Unistrut in your picture of the CSM your putting together? I am looking to build one as well and would like to use this as well. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again
Murph

murphyranch said:

BobL I know your not in the US but where are you getting the Unistrut in your picture of the CSM your putting together? I am looking to build one as well and would like to use this as well. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Click to expand...

I got my unistrut from an Aussie company called Capral who I believe get it from a company called GJames who did the original extrusions in Australia. The extrusion I used is number 984019 and is called a "Street sign post brace." It's a 6063-T6 alloy. A cross section is shown below.



I have investigated a wide range of Al extrusions, most are too small or too soft to use in a biggish CS mill. Another possibility I considered was ICT-059 Marine grade "Seat Track" made of alloy 6082-T6. Although its slightly smaller in cross section, it has more mass per unit length so it is not lighter but the alloy itself would have better inhertent strength and wear characteristics than the 6063 alloy used the the 984019 profile. Unfortunately there was none available in Australia at the time I went to purchase so I bought the 984019.



To utilise the full strength of the ICT059 unistrut a custom clip would be required to grab hold of the small downward facing returns on the top of the C-section. This would make it very strong.

I'm sure there must be many places in the US where you can obtain the same sort of stuff or better (look for aerospace alloys?) but of course at a commensurate price.

One way of comparing the physical properties of materials/alloys is to use the comparison engine at http://www.matweb.com/search/SearchProperty.asp

So far my mill has cost me AUS$55 for the rails and about $5 for bolts and fixings, and an as yet unspecified number of cases of beer for my BIL which I consider very reasonable (especially as I know he will ask me around to help drink it!).

Cheers