cambium saver/redirect

I am looking to make a 30' long redirect. Something to combine a cambium saver/redirect. Lightweight, flexible rope with steel rings spliced into the ends.
I have a big old oak tree with a big fat crotch 30' up. I can't get my arms around the wide trunks. Rather than try throwing a throw-line up and resetting the rope. I am looking to use this shorter rope with throwing knot in it.
Any suggestions on a splicible rope. Any criticisms on this method.

I am trying to see the logic in this. What is wrong with using a throwbag, hit a crotch above your first limb, climb up and go from there?

Can you footlock? That would be the easiest way into the tree.


A throwing knot sent to 30 ft. seems like too much work when a throw bag is easier!!!

Climbing line redirect

Adrpk said:

I am looking to make a 30' long redirect. Something to combine a cambium saver/redirect. Lightweight, flexible rope with steel rings spliced into the ends.
I have a big old oak tree with a big fat crotch 30' up. I can't get my arms around the wide trunks. Rather than try throwing a throw-line up and resetting the rope. I am looking to use this shorter rope with throwing knot in it.
Any suggestions on a splicible rope. Any criticisms on this method.

Click to expand...

I do redirects alot, however I use nylon web rigging loops in combination with two locking biners to do it. Simply place the loop over the desired crotch then place each line coming from your main tie in point in the locking biners attached to either end of the loop, this method has the advantage of keeping each line coming from the main TIP separate from each other ( less friction ) and can even be retrieved from the ground if you use a leather cambium saver at your main TIP.

The nylon web rigging loops I use are available at most rigging houses and come in lengths from 12 inches to 72+ inches, they're ratings are sewn on them on leather inserts, and I also use them for speed lining.

They're quick easy and effective, I carry atleast three on my saddle at all times.

Hope this info helps and is responsive to your question.

jomoco

The crotch is 30' up and is three large trunks. Wish I had a pic and will get one tomorrow if I can. Rather than throwing the bag up into the canopy with numerous small limbs and resetting a cambium saver. I am thinking of trying to throw a shorter climbing rope to pull myself up with. Ya, as I am writing this I am this I thinking why splice rings into the ends, umm? But you guys must run into these trees that seem impossible to get a line into because of numerous little branches. What do you do? And form where I stand in the tree it would be a limited throw because of the width of the three trunks that make up this crotch.
I could do it from the ground with a dead accurate throw 60' up. But am looking for an easier way.

Adrpk said:

The crotch is 30' up and is three large trunks. Wish I had a pic and will get one tomorrow if I can. Rather than throwing the bag up into the canopy with numerous small limbs and resetting a cambium saver. I am thinking of trying to throw a shorter climbing rope to pull myself up with. Ya, as I am writing this I am this I thinking why splice rings into the ends, umm? But you guys must run into these trees that seem impossible to get a line into because of numerous little branches. What do you do? And form where I stand in the tree it would be a limited throw because of the width of the three trunks that make up this crotch.
I could do it from the ground with a dead accurate throw 60' up. But am looking for an easier way.

Click to expand...

I'm obviously misunderstanding what you mean when you say redirect, sorry.

jomoco

No problems...

Adrpk said:

I am looking to make a 30' long redirect. Something to combine a cambium saver/redirect. Lightweight, flexible rope with steel rings spliced into the ends.
I have a big old oak tree with a big fat crotch 30' up. I can't get my arms around the wide trunks. Rather than try throwing a throw-line up and resetting the rope. I am looking to use this shorter rope with throwing knot in it.
Any suggestions on a splicible rope. Any criticisms on this method.

Click to expand...

Best to splice a rope you are used to using...

Make sure the rings and rope are properly rated etc, etc...

No problems with the 30' redirect, besides, you need to work out what suits your situation best and that means experimenting and that is how our industry has evolved...

jomoco said:

I'm obviously misunderstanding what you mean when you say redirect, sorry.

jomoco

Click to expand...

Ya, you are talking about redirecting the rope, I am talking about redirecting me.

arboralliance said:

Best to splice a rope you are used to using...

Make sure the rings and rope are properly rated etc, etc...

No problems with the 30' redirect, besides, you need to work out what suits your situation best and that means experimenting and that is how our industry has evolved...

Click to expand...

Yes, I like that, evolving in the industry. If I find success with this device maybe they'll name after me.


I'll get some pics to help clarify the need. The other end of the rope would work fine, just trying to get around pulling it up and resetting it. Seems what I would have to do with a shorter piece also.

The tree.


The crotch.




I hope this shows the problem. I know these things are just a challenge to ones abilities but any replies are appreciated. If I throw the line from the primary crotch I am standing in it seems it be real hard to reach for the other end. It will come down on the other side of the crotch. Throwing from the ground to above the crotch would put my on too small of a branch to be safe.

Big Shot

Adrpk said:

The tree.

The crotch.

I hope this shows the problem. I know these things are just a challenge to ones abilities but any replies are appreciated. If I throw the line from the primary crotch I am standing in it seems it be real hard to reach for the other end. It will come down on the other side of the crotch. Throwing from the ground to above the crotch would put my on too small of a branch to be safe.

Click to expand...

Invest a little money, buy a Big Shot, with a little practice all your problems will be below you. Always remember that you can use multiple body lines in larger trees.

Good luck,

jomoco

Adrpk said:

Rather than throwing the bag up into the canopy with numerous small limbs and resetting a cambium saver. I am thinking of trying to throw a shorter climbing rope to pull myself up with.

Click to expand...

The tree looks pretty clean and open, so I am having some trouble understanding your complaint... If setting a high TIP at the get-go is not an option, then start lower and work your way up. You need to be versatile. Using a cambium saver isn't always very practical if you can't isolate the limb.
If you can't isolate the limb, then climb without the cambium saver--almost any limb can handle a little rope friction. Having more than one length of climbing rope is very handy. I like having a long one attached to the TIP, and a shorter one for maneuvering.

Adrpk said:

Ya, as I am writing this I am this I thinking why splice rings into the ends, umm?

Click to expand...

????

Adrpk said:

I could do it from the ground with a dead accurate throw 60' up. But am looking for an easier way.

Click to expand...

This is where versatility (and a little experience) pays. I almost never run into a tree where I can set the high TIP I want from the ground. Go for something lower, and then free climb from there. I try to avoid using the throw line in the tree, because I find it difficult and tiring, but sometimes that is the only option. I made a pair of etriers out of junk rope. Each has a spliced eye that lets me choke it to a bare spar. On two or three occasions I have used them to rather easily climb a limbless section till I could reach some more limbs.

I take it your nice tree is going to be your practice tree? Why not climb up to a nice high TIP, even if it takes several tries and a lot of work. Once there, install a false crotch. Now leave it there for weeks or months if you like. Any time you want to go practice or try out a new idea, pull your rope into place and climb away. I think I have had as many as 5 FC's installed in different trees all at the same time. There are 3 installed in my back yard as I write, two of which give me access to the two anchor trees of a long highline I am experimenting with. These semi-permanent installations mean much less time "wasted" installing my line, and a lot more time to spend on experimenting and practicing...

moray said:

The tree looks pretty clean and open, so I am having some trouble understanding your complaint... If setting a high TIP at the get-go is not an option, then start lower and work your way up. You need to be versatile. Using a cambium saver isn't always very practical if you can't isolate the limb.
If you can't isolate the limb, then climb without the cambium saver--almost any limb can handle a little rope friction. Having more than one length of climbing rope is very handy. I like having a long one attached to the TIP, and a shorter one for maneuvering.


????



This is where versatility (and a little experience) pays. I almost never run into a tree where I can set the high TIP I want from the ground. Go for something lower, and then free climb from there. I try to avoid using the throw line in the tree, because I find it difficult and tiring, but sometimes that is the only option. I made a pair of etriers out of junk rope. Each has a spliced eye that lets me choke it to a bare spar. On two or three occasions I have used them to rather easily climb a limbless section till I could reach some more limbs.

I take it your nice tree is going to be your practice tree? Why not climb up to a nice high TIP, even if it takes several tries and a lot of work. Once there, install a false crotch. Now leave it there for weeks or months if you like. Any time you want to go practice or try out a new idea, pull your rope into place and climb away. I think I have had as many as 5 FC's installed in different trees all at the same time. There are 3 installed in my back yard as I write, two of which give me access to the two anchor trees of a long highline I am experimenting with. These semi-permanent installations mean much less time "wasted" installing my line, and a lot more time to spend on experimenting and practicing...

Click to expand...

ADVISING SOMEONE TO: NOT USE A CAMBIUM SAVER, FREE CLIMB, LEAVE ROPES/TIP's IN TREES?:monkey:

Is this a serious post?:help:

arboralliance said:

ADVISING SOMEONE TO: NOT USE A CAMBIUM SAVER, FREE CLIMB, LEAVE ROPES/TIP's IN TREES?:monkey:

Is this a serious post?:help:

Click to expand...

Yes.

Um...

Adrpk said:

Yes.

Click to expand...

Please don't get my post mixed up with questioning the "thread" Adrpk, it's a great thread I am just dubious of someone posting advising you to free climb, climb without the use of cambium saver and to leave ropes or TIP's in trees for extended periods of time...

This advise needs to be clarified...

Great "thread" though!

Moray, the short rope for maneuvering is what we are talking about in this thread. What kind of rope do you use for this? How do the ends of this rope terminate?

Adrpk said:

Moray, the short rope for maneuvering is what we are talking about in this thread. What kind of rope do you use for this? How do the ends of this rope terminate?

Click to expand...

Start low and rope throw/hip thrust your way up...........time consuming but it will work!!!

arboralliance said:

Please don't get my post mixed up with questioning the "thread" Adrpk, it's a great thread I am just dubious of someone posting advising you to free climb, climb without the use of cambium saver and to leave ropes or TIP's in trees for extended periods of time...

This advise needs to be clarified...

Great "thread" though!

Click to expand...

Moray has his own way of reaching the death defying heights we all try to achieve but what I like about Moray is he post about it. He is not following he is leading. I will do the deciphering of which of his methods are safe for me. He's still alive is'nt he?
I am glad you like the thread. So stop clapping and get with this shorter piece of rope thing.
How do you get around an obstacle, safely?

Nice...

Adrpk said:

Moray has his own way of reaching the death defying heights we all try to achieve but what I like about Moray is he post about it. He is not following he is leading. I will do the deciphering of which of his methods are safe for me. He's still alive is'nt he?
I am glad you like the thread. So stop clapping and get with this shorter piece of rope thing.
How do you get around an obstacle, safely?

Click to expand...

Ok, didnt realise your intimate relationship with moray my apologies...

I posted the 6th post on the first page short and sweet AND have another thread running on similar issues you might like to read...

Adrpk said:

Moray has his own way of reaching the death defying heights we all try to achieve but what I like about Moray is he post about it. He is not following he is leading. I will do the deciphering of which of his methods are safe for me. He's still alive is'nt he?
I am glad you like the thread. So stop clapping and get with this shorter piece of rope thing.
How do you get around an obstacle, safely?

Click to expand...

You are too kind!

My short rope is nothing special, just a 40 foot length of arbormaster with a spliced eye on one end and a small pull loop on the other (I described this in another thread...).

You are definitely on to a major problem of climbing trees--how to get your rope situated in a good limb above you. The best solution is to have a trained squirrel that will run your throw line up over an excellent limb up high... Without the squirrel, its a lot harder, but the more tricks you have the easier it is going to be. I have found as I became a better climber I could dispense with some of the fancier tricks, so your bag of tricks will evolve as you gain experience.

Just briefly, if I am in the tree and need to advance the rope no more than 10 feet, I'll put a throwing knot in the climb line and try to throw it over. Sometimes I'll use the modified handle of my snow rake (very light) to maneuver the rope or thow line over a higher limb (can reach about 15 feet). Sometimes I'll use my pair of etriers, essentially a replacement for spurs, to climb up to the next limb. Last resort is to use the thow line in the tree, but I have had to do that a few times. I use a short 40 foot line for this.

But good climbing skills will replace a lot of this or at least make it easier. This is why I suggested you get a high line set in your tree by hook or by crook so you can get on with the climbing.

arboralliance said:

Please don't get my post mixed up with questioning the "thread" Adrpk, it's a great thread I am just dubious of someone posting advising you to free climb, climb without the use of cambium saver and to leave ropes or TIP's in trees for extended periods of time...

This advise needs to be clarified...

Great "thread" though!

Click to expand...

arboralliance, I'm happy to clarify...

First, when I say "free climb," I don't mean without protection, I simply mean without a rope tied in above you.

Using a cambium saver is not always practical. I use them whenever I can for the sake of both the rope and the tree. Lots of trees here in the Northeast have good thick bark that can stand quite a lot of abuse from a rope. I often will climb to the top of a tree, most of it by free climbing, then install a cambium saver and use it to rappel down...

Leaving a CS in the tree for extended periods. I assume you are concerned about damage from UV light. There will be damage--the question is how much. Here are some of the factors I considered:
1. The manufacturer of the polyester rope I use certifies it for extended periods of outside use if it is inspected regularly.
2. After many months outside, I have never been able to detect the slightest damage, such as powdery surface, broken strands, what-have-you.
3. At my latitude, 45 degrees North, UV light drops to near zero during the winter, and even in the summer is relatively weak (compared to Down Under).
4. I have some small diameter (5 or 6 mm) crappy polypropylene tie-down rope in the back of my open pickup. This is my canary in the coal mine. It is MUCH more susceptible to UV damage than polyester. After 5 years of non-stop exposure, it shows clear signs of damage, but it is still functioning just fine. I wouldn't start worrying about my big fat CS rope until this crappy little tie-down rope is a pile of dust.
5. Mountain climbers have left nylon climbing ropes permanently installed in high places for years, including Everest, and they (reluctantly) still use them.

Conclusion: UV damage to a good polyester rope is extremely slow. Use a small-diameter cheapo polypropylene rope for an exposure meter. When it starts to look really ratty you might want to take a look at that CS that has been up in the tree for a few months...

I know that this has been discussed many times and the idea of rope or CS damage by animals has been dismissed by most I still don't feel comfortable leaving gear in the tree, even overnight. I'd rather leave a throw line up and reinstall each day than take a chance on the Geico squirrels laughing at me.
Phil