Installing a false crotch or friction saver

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pdqdl

pdqdl

Old enough to know better.
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Hopefully, we all know about remotely setting a friction saver in a tree. Pick a reason to use it, it's not important why. My problem is the practicality of the normal instructions (I only know one method, anyway), and it occurs to me that with a brain trust as large as ArboristSite, surely someone has a better idea.

Whenever I try to set the friction saver remotely, it seems that when you throw the ball over the branch you need, you always get another branch in-between the "up" side and the "down" side, preventing installation of the friction saver. Unless you are working on a tree so open that it doesn't need trimming.

I have tried pulling the throwball back to the target branch, then lowering. Once down, re-tie the throw ball to the other end of the throwing line, raise (carefully!) back up to the branch. Lower again, trying to follow the path that the other side of the throw line took. If no branches are in the middle, then you can set the friction saver.

But what a pain! Up, down, re-tie, up, back down. Tie on rope, up, down... This takes so much time, I don't even try it unless I absolutely can't just throw a rope over the branch. Unless you just happen to be attaching to the bottom limb, it doesn't seem worth the effort.


Does anybody know a better way to do this ? Or am I just too impatient ?
 
pdqdl said:
Hopefully, we all know about remotely setting a friction saver in a tree. Pick a reason to use it, it's not important why. My problem is the practicality of the normal instructions (I only know one method, anyway), and it occurs to me that with a brain trust as large as ArboristSite, surely someone has a better idea.
......................................................................................
For years I have used the Bigshot,very accurate even with a target 80 ft up,it can blast the shot bag through debris in the way.You say you use a throwball, use a shotbag instead does'nt bounce around. Also the bigshot eliminates the arc in the shotbag and lines path so your not getting a bunch of limbs in the way. Sometimes it takes me 5 minutes to spot a good crotch to set the friction saver in.The crotch might not be the best spot but you can re-direct or reset your f/s somewhere else when you get up there.There are tricks to isolate your throwline but I don't bother wasting the time. Once you get your line over it ,pull the bag back until it almost falls back out of the crotch let it down to the ground, if there is a limb below that may interfere with the f/s then bounce the shotbag above it until it clears. With the bag on the ground untie your bag [slipknot in anchor hitch] put the line through f/s small ring ,retie bag, pull all of line out of line bag and put that end through big ring, pull the line with f/s and bag up with it, over crotch, both rings clink together.Let bag down , remove bag ,tie eye-splice of climbing rope, pull rope up through and back down to your saddle. When time comes to remove f/s from ground, detach eye splice of rope from saddle tie square knot a foot up from eye,pull rope , knot goes through big ring ,catches small ring ,f/s falls down.There simple.
Click to expand...
 
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HolmenTree said:
pdqdl said:
Hopefully, we all know about remotely setting a friction saver in a tree. Pick a reason to use it, it's not important why. My problem is the practicality of the normal instructions (I only know one method, anyway), and it occurs to me that with a brain trust as large as ArboristSite, surely someone has a better idea.

For years I have used the Bigshot,very accurate even with a target 80 ft up,it can blast the shot bag through debris in the way.You say you use a throwball, use a shotbag instead does'nt bounce around. Also the bigshot eliminates the arc in the shotbag and lines path so your not getting a bunch of limbs in the way. Sometimes it takes me 5 minutes to spot a good crotch to set the friction saver in.The crotch might not be the best spot but you can re-direct or reset your f/s somewhere else when you get up there. Once you get your line over it ,pull the bag back until it almost falls back out of the crotch let it down to the ground, if there is a limb below that may interfere with the f/s then bounce the shotbag above it until it clears. With the bag on the ground untie your bag [slipknot in anchor hitch] put the line through f/s small ring ,retie bag, pull all of line out of line bag and put that end through big ring, pull the line with f/s and bag up with it, over crotch, both rings clink together.Let bag down , remove bag ,tie eye-splice of climbing rope, pull rope up through and back down to your saddle. Simple. Best thing since sliced bread.:)
Click to expand...



Before you tie your shot bag onto throw line (before you even make the first throw), pass it through the big ring of Friction Saver first. That way you don't have to "take all the rest of the line out of the bag" cuz its already through. Don't have to re-bag the entire throw line, just what you need. Cuts down on time too.

I lay the friction saver over my rope bag and let that big ring hang just over the side, right next to throw line. With the exception of an occasional knot, the line just flies through like the eyes on a fishin pole.
Click to expand...
 
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I have tried pulling the throwball back to the target branch, then lowering. Once down, re-tie the throw ball to the other end of the throwing line, raise (carefully!) back up to the branch. Lower again, trying to follow the path that the other side of the throw line took.
Click to expand...

I have a throwball on each end. I attach each with a bowline on a bight girth hitched over the ring. Comes off in 2 seconds. I don't ever untie the bowline. Isolating a limb can be time consuming and frustrating sometimes. If I get really frustrated, I'll climb to the TIP SRT and then install my FS or natural crotch the TIP once I get up there.
 
pdqdl said:
Does anybody know a better way to do this ? Or am I just too impatient ?
Click to expand...

Time is money. Get rope in tree, get up there and then set friction saver to work tree from. Big shot can be helpful for those unskilled with either one hand or two handed throwbagin, but sometimes it still turns into a bit of a circus act.

If its a removal, spike up, set F saver, begin.

Sometimes I put climbing line over high crotch, and secure it with running bowline. SRT to top, tie in with flip line, set up friction saver and go to work. Depends on the job. Looking forward to more options that may appear on this thread.
 
randyg said:
Before you tie your shot bag onto throw line (before you even make the first throw), pass it through the big ring of Friction Saver first. That way you don't have to "take all the rest of the line out of the bag" cuz its already through. Don't have to re-bag the entire throw line, just what you need. Cuts down on time too.

I lay the friction saver over my rope bag and let that big ring hang just over the side, right next to throw line. With the exception of an occasional knot, the line just flies through like the eyes on a fishin pole.
Click to expand...

Good tip,but in the real world the line doesn't always come out of the bag in a straight line, you can get the shotbag up and over but you got that little loose pileup to pull out. I use the battery powered line feeder to shoot it back into the bag anyway only takes 15 seconds for 150 ft.
 
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If i use a FS, I will access the tree with ascenders on a doubled line then set it up on the best TIP.

Quite often I will ascend on the easiest crotch then move to a better working TIP.
 
John Paul Sanborn said:
Quite often I will ascend on the easiest crotch then move to a better working TIP.
Click to expand...


thats kinda what i do. i also climb with a troball/biner on the saddle to get better rope toss.


i had a f/s but gave it to a coworker, his rope was new at the time and one of our groundies pulled his rope without a stopper knot.....leaving his f/s in the tree. lol
 
Just haul up a floating false crotch, it's fast and self-isolating. Also a breeze to ascend on as it's about the most frictionless way you can go.

On easy shots where I use a normal FS, the Big Ring is long gone, cut off and replaced by a pear shaped locking carabiner, just clip it on the throw line, though I like randyg's idea of passing it through the Big Ring first, I never thought of that...


RedlineIt
 
I just set the throw line in a good crotch then tie
it off to one end of a stable braid rope pull it over
and fasten an arborist block on the other end. I then
pull it along with climb line up to the crotch area and
tie the other end off to ascend on a block then set
it up when I arrive at tip! I use a block for a false
crotch to aid in body thrusting sometimes but really
mostly use natural for climbing and block for rigging.
 
ropensaddle I just set the throw line in a good crotch then tie
it off to one end of a stable braid rope pull it over
and fasten an arborist block on the other end. I then
pull it along with climb line up to the crotch area and
tie the other end off to ascend on a block then set
it up when I arrive at tip! I use a block for a false
crotch to aid in body thrusting sometimes but really
mostly use natural for climbing and block for rigging.
Click to expand...

Yes, good description of installing the floating false crotch I mentioned above.

Also, if you've got a tree with nothing but droopy branches in your throw-ball shot zone, like a Sequoia or Red Cedar, you can tie on another rope just above the block and tie that off at your best angle to keep the whole arrangement from sliding away from the trunk.



RedlineIt
 
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RedlineIt said:
Just haul up a floating false crotch, it's fast and self-isolating. Also a breeze to ascend on as it's about the most frictionless way you can go.

On easy shots where I use a normal FS, the Big Ring is long gone, cut off and replaced by a pear shaped locking carabiner, just clip it on the throw line, though I like randyg's idea of passing it through the Big Ring first, I never thought of that...


RedlineIt
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that a floating false crotch, set up like this, will put 2x the load on your tie in point. I agree that it works nice but you have to choose tie-in points more carefully.
 
cut off the big ring on the saver and replace it with a krab.
attachment.php
 
randyg said:
Time is money. Get rope in tree, get up there and then set friction saver to work tree from.
Click to expand...

I've argued this point with guys at work a few times. They insist it's faster to take a mediocre shot and install a rope immediately and recrotch 10 times to a final tie-in over taking time to cherry pick a final tie in from the ground. Limb humping is exhausting and looks amateur, and fighting natural crotch friction is really annoying when you're used to a cocoon or friction saver. Believe me, I am not doing it for the cambium. Plus, if you're running a double braid 11/11.3/11.7mm climbing line, you are going to trash your rope quick. The key for me was learning from guys that had throwline fishing skills -- there are all kinds of tricks to take a garbage throw and turn it into the best TIP possible, isolated and friction saver installed. Swings, flips, 2 line technique, midline shotpouch manipulation, 2nd shotpouch on running end, stick tricks, stick flips, snagging loops, you name it.

Big shot is nice, but for me personally, dialing in the throwline in general is time well spent. Some days you have to cut yourself off and fall back on old standby.
 
ill do a lot of my removals using the throw-line too get my lowering line set first and than i start hooking up the trunk taking limbs on my way to the top.
 
oldirty said:
thats kinda what i do. i also climb with a troball/biner on the saddle to get better rope toss.


i had a f/s but gave it to a coworker, his rope was new at the time and one of our groundies pulled his rope without a stopper knot.....leaving his f/s in the tree. lol
Click to expand...

My guy did the same thing last week, except he did not tie a single knot just pulled it through. Took me about 5 min. to get it down from its' 35-40 ft spot.
 

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