2 problem trees - how to take down safely?

[Taxmantoo]

First tree is in a fencerow, I'd like to bring it down in the lane where the camera is in the first pic. Pretty large, been dead a while, dropped three big widowmakers last month. Kinda afraid to stand under the thing, let alone cut on it.

Here's a close up of my hat sitting on the biggest widowmaker at the base of the tree. Behind the tree in the pics is the neighbor's field. Options seem to be to cut it and hope it doesn't drop a branch on me, try to pull it down, or just ignore it and let the wind take it into the neighbor's corn in a couple more years. The last option doesn't appeal to me very much, as it keeps dropping major branches in my main path to the woods.

 

[Taxmantoo]

2nd tree, cherry leaner. I think it's dead or very unhealthy. Note the peeling
bark near the top of the last pic. All I can think of is to slash cut it a few
times, but if I do that, how will I know where it will eventually fall?

 

[greengoblin]

Cant see pics in the thread, having to click. Just so you know taxman.

 

[stipes]

Thats me too....

If your not comfortable fellin it,,dont....If all it will hurt is takin a fence down with a limb,,let mother nature do that,,and let friends and family know to stay away from that tree.
I cut 3 widow makers last year and it does get to me.....You have to look up and look at your cut too,,and small limbs are bad enough,,but the big stuff even if you wear a brain bucket you have this thought in your mind if you see it comin down can you run fast enough....Aint worth puttin yourself tru that......
I have 2 in my woods and dont have a bark one on it,,and needs to come down...You can ask people on here and they will tell ya...Like this ice storm that rolled tru here last week...The trees you think that would come down didnt,,and the ones you thought was healty came crashing....
If you do decide to fell it,,,Get a friend to stand way back with a hand air horn to at least warn you if the see the slightest movement...Dont dog your saw,,keep vibrations really low,,and when it gets to the point you have hinge you see that you can wedge the tree the rest of the way,,do it....
Just please becarefull,,and have someone watch out for you!!!!!!!

 

[Jacob J.]

That first tree looks pretty straightforward. Main thing you need to do there is assess whether there's a safe side to cut from. It looks like to me the rotten branches above hang out over your walking path where the camera is in the first pic, so you should be able to get into the sides of it fairly safely to make your felling cuts.

The second one looks like it's hung up pretty good. You'll either end up fenceposting it down or cutting the butt and winching it out, provided it's not hung up so good that it can't be pulled.

 

[sawinredneck]

Tree 1 is pretty straight foeward, other than being large. Might need to rope it to pull it to where the camera is sitting. Looks like there is enough weight in the spar to push it on down with what little will get snagged up. But again the rope would help get it down if it does get snagged. Just put the rope in it before you make a cut!!!

Tree two is tricky. There are a couple of things you could do. How I would aprroach it, make a smallish face cut, and bore cut it to the back, leaving little hinge wood to hold it. Cut it as low as you can, maybe put the notch to the side you hope it will roll and cut it on the safer side. When it's free of the stump, come in with a tractor, or a comealong and pull it back out of the trees putting it on the ground. And keeping you out of the way.
The other way, I have done it, and HATE DOING IT!!! THIS IS NOT SAFE AND CAN KILL YOU!!!
Fence post it. Cut off four to fiv foot sections at a time, as large as you dare. Make a top cut until it starts to fold, then make an undercut to match. It will open and drop. Hopefully it wont roll. Then when it's almost vertical, make another cut, and be ready to RUN LIKE THE WIND!!! As the but drops it will swing the other way freeing up the tp and dropping to the ground. When and where, is anybodies guess!!
I like the tractor/skidsteer/miniskidsteer/comealong option much beter!!!

 

[willsaw4beer]

Whenever I do a leaner, I try to figure out where the tension is and cut on the other side. I make enough of a cut so I won't get the barberchair effect but not enough to pinch on the tension side then cut mostly on the other side. That and try my best to stay out of harms way, easier said than done! Not very fun at all, and I've pinched more than one bar. Widow makers are nasty, the only safe way is probably dynamite or something that entails you being far enough away that nothing will drop on you.

 

[Taxmantoo]

Cant see pics in the thread, having to click. Just so you know taxman.

Huh. I can see them when I view the thread. I've been having all sorts of browser related problems with AS the last 3 days, but I can see my pics.
Had to use IE to post the thread, Firefox wouldn't open the dialog box for uploading the pics.

Stipes, I had definite plans for recruiting a spotter. Didn't think of the freon horn though, that's a good idea. Half tempted to give it a bash or two with the loader bucket before felling to make sure nothing is on the verge of falling off, but if it drops a 400lb branch on the tractor it could get expensive.

 

[stipes]

+1

Whenever I do a leaner, I try to figure out where the tension is and cut on the other side. I make enough of a cut so I won't get the barberchair effect but not enough to pinch on the tension side then cut mostly on the other side. That and try my best to stay out of harms way, easier said than done! Not very fun at all, and I've pinched more than one bar. Widow makers are nasty, the only safe way is probably dynamite or something that entails you being far enough away that nothing will drop on you.

I do bore cut on a bad leaner,,but like you said,,widow makers are bad...I never,,ever worried alot about a tree fallin on me cause I take my time and watch up and the gap in the back cut,,and my hinge width,,but with dead limbs above you,,,,thats a big gamble....You just dont know ..........

 

[willsaw4beer]

The other way, I have done it, and HATE DOING IT!!! THIS IS NOT SAFE AND CAN KILL YOU!!!
Fence post it. Cut off four to fiv foot sections at a time, as large as you dare. Make a top cut until it starts to fold, then make an undercut to match. It will open and drop. Hopefully it wont roll. Then when it's almost vertical, make another cut, and be ready to RUN LIKE THE WIND!!! As the but drops it will swing the other way freeing up the tp and dropping to the ground. When and where, is anybodies guess!!
I like the tractor/skidsteer/miniskidsteer/comealong option much beter!!!

Yeah that's how I do it every time, I'm sure it must look funny as h3ll to someone watching but it is no laughing matter when you're the one running and dodging a 2 foot or so trunk flinging around... First order of business doing it this way is to clear the area of any brush or anything you can possibly trip on. :censored:

 

[rube2112]

First tree is in a fencerow, I'd like to bring it down in the lane where the camera is in the first pic. Pretty large, been dead a while, dropped three big widowmakers last month. Kinda afraid to stand under the thing, let alone cut on it.

Here's a close up of my hat sitting on the biggest widowmaker at the base of the tree. Behind the tree in the pics is the neighbor's field. Options seem to be to cut it and hope it doesn't drop a branch on me, try to pull it down, or just ignore it and let the wind take it into the neighbor's corn in a couple more years. The last option doesn't appeal to me very much, as it keeps dropping major branches in my main path to the woods.

What is the question?......not trying to be a smartass but neither one of them look particularly difficult jobs. Sometimes seeing things in a pictures take away the scope of the job.....Robb

 

[stipes]

Why I didnt cut this one????

The one I was talking about last year...Seasoned red oak,,,hard as hell,,but the limbs...I would have felled it,,but you can see in the pics. all the limbs around...I looked up at that tree,,and thought,,,my face cut,,,got one hanging over me,,the back cut the same....I'm not trying to sound like I'm a wuss,,but no excape...I would have felled it if it didnt have alot of over hang,,but not worth it to me..........

 

[Taxmantoo]

What is the question?......not trying to be a smartass but neither one of them look particularly difficult jobs. Sometimes seeing things in a pictures take away the scope of the job.....Robb

First one didn't seem difficult to me, but the fact that it dropped three branches (two of them huge) since Christmas makes me fear that I might get squashed like a bug.

I've never tried to cut anything like the 2nd one, so I thought I'd take advantage of the forum's combined experience. In the past, waiting for the leaners to fall has served me well, but this one's got orange paint on it from the timber buyer that was in there five years ago. It was leaning then exactly as it is now. Don't know the details, but mom and the buyer didn't reach an agreement on that tree, so it still sits there.

 

[Mike PA]

That first one really doesn't seem too hard. If you think it can't take pounding wedges, pull with a rope. I wedged a few over this weekend that looked like that, but kept an eye up and never slammed the wedges that hard.

The second tree is harder, but it doesn't look that dangerous. You can fence post it like someone said (which I hate), or you can cut it off the stump and pull it out with a truck. Getting it off the stump isn't that bad, as the butt will probably just drop straight down. Cut some on the top, then finish with an undercut. Whenever I do this, I stay on the most protected side of the tree (side least likely for roll). If I am too nervous about cutting it, I'll notch the butt and do a back cut and leav the tree on the stump and finish the drop with a chain and truck. Usually works well, but sometimes I leave too much wood too pull, so I have to trim a little more off. Your best tool is in your head. Make sure you use it and fully consider all forces, actions, and reactions before you start.

 

[edisto]

Back when I had to clear space in the middle of nowhere for a helicopter to land, and didn't have to worry about aesthetics, I'd make the first cuts the same as you would for a fence-post, and then I'd start dropping other trees on it.

I always got lucky and got the leaners down before I ran out of trees, but it can be a fast way to make a bad situation worse as well. I'm pretty sure it is not a recommended practice, but it made sense to me.

I once hung up a tree with about a 2.5' - 3' diameter, then dropped another on it (same size), then another. The 4th biggun took them all down at once, and the earth literally trembled.

 

[2dogs]

That first tree looks pretty straightforward. Main thing you need to do there is assess whether there's a safe side to cut from. It looks like to me the rotten branches above hang out over your walking path where the camera is in the first pic, so you should be able to get into the sides of it fairly safely to make your felling cuts.

The second one looks like it's hung up pretty good. You'll either end up fenceposting it down or cutting the butt and winching it out, provided it's not hung up so good that it can't be pulled.

Never heard the term fenceposting before. The first tree, if a road is close, I would put a bull line in the tree and give it a few hard pulls before I cut it. Maybe limbs will come down or maybe the whole tree will pull over. It not then I would just fall it normally. Kepp your wedges snug but be careful pounding.

BTW a spotter is good to have but you won't be able to get out from under a falling limb if you are not watching it come loose. Look up info on Sim Kimb, esp the video.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/projects/hazard_trees/Soft-Limb-Synopsis-1-30-06.pdf
http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/safety/council/newsletters/may06/may06.html

The second I would cut it low and see if it falls. If not then roll it, if that doesn't work pull the butt with a vehicle or a come along. If that doesn't work then I would cut angle chunks out of it till it is on the ground. Is that fenceposting?

 

[2dogs]

Back when I had to clear space in the middle of nowhere for a helicopter to land, and didn't have to worry about aesthetics, I'd make the first cuts the same as you would for a fence-post, and then I'd start dropping other trees on it.

I always got lucky and got the leaners down before I ran out of trees, but it can be a fast way to make a bad situation worse as well. I'm pretty sure it is not a recommended practice, but it made sense to me.

I once hung up a tree with about a 2.5' - 3' diameter, then dropped another on it (same size), then another. The 4th biggun took them all down at once, and the earth literally trembled.

But if you did run out of trees you need a dozer to clean up the mess. Then there is the papaerwork. Life would be easier if you could sling load a D6.

 

[deerlakejens]

Please explain the fencepost term.

 

[Mike PA]

Please explain the fencepost term.

As I understand it, it is cutting the butt off a hung tree so that the butt falls into the ground. Gets the tree more vertical with each cut, and as the tree falls, it jabs into the ground, kinda like a fencepost.

 

[edisto]

But if you did run out of trees you need a dozer to clean up the mess. Then there is the papaerwork. Life would be easier if you could sling load a D6.

I sure would have spent a lot fewer nights stuck in the bush if they could have gotten a D6 in!