600-yr Old Oak - Can It Be Saved?

[sloomis]

This supposedly 600-yr old Oak tree was used as a survey mark by G. Washington when he surveyed Virginia (now West Va.). My landlord put this driveway over its roots. They said the tree "filled with water in the hot summer and limbs exploded off, so they topped the tree, put a roof on it, and slowed down the damage". Obviously, this tree is doomed...any ideas about saving it, or is it a slow death? I read that oak trees are sensitve to root damage...this one survived the major floods of 1934 & 1985, but not the road-building of 1989! See picture, and thanks in advance!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Most likely in for a slow death.

I would move the picnic table and maybe put soem deadman anchors in to the field to guy it. regular dead wood removal.

There may be some root zone things that can be done to help prolong the decline.

Your best bet is to have a consulting arborist take a look at it.

find one here http://www.asca-consultants.org/

 

[sloomis]

Thanks, John Paul - I guess that has to be a sorry tree to see. I emailed an arborist like you suggested. I don't have much money, but the tree just makes me sick, especially as it is the only old growth tree for miles. But a big ole racoon likes to sleep in the rotted out place there, so it's useful as a house for him.. and it's still pretty, in a sad way. Thanks for your help.

 

[sloomis]

Can anyone out there tell me - is it the way they built the road and pushed dirt over the roots that damaged the tree?

How could it have been done better?

Thanks..

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

It is the soil compaction removing the pores between particles. This is where the roots get water. The percolation of water through the soil is what causes gas exchange. Trees need 8-10% oxygen in the soil to survive.

Then there is thge creation of a hydrological boundry, the soil gets so compact that water cannot move through. This can be created by a truck tire moving across an area just a few times. then getting filled in with top soil.

 

[WRW]

Avoidance of the root area entirely is best. Just saw where JPS answered that soil compaction is the problem.
Is that the Potomac in the background? and did it make it up into the tree? Damages from floods that were not addressed at that time could have contributed to the decline of that tree...as could the weather patterns of late. Trees also do have a life expectancy.

 

[sloomis]

WRW - Yes, the big flood (South Branch of the Potomac) of 1985 probably came 10-12' up on the tree. But the owner says all the branches on the new road side started exploding off soon after 1989 (road built), and the top died, and water entered after they topped it.

How far from the tree should the road have been built in order to save the tree?

I take it from John Paul's reply that any car using the road would be hurting the tree - I guess it's oxygen-starved?

If you have no other choice for a road other than over roots, could you build a bridge, or something so the pressure is posts and not all over the road?

Sherri

 

[Jay Banks]

When you build a road/driveway you need to stay out of the critical root zone. This is a formula that takes the diameter of the tree and equates to a disatnce you should stay away from the tree.

1 inch of diameter = 12 inches of radius from the tree.

 

[sloomis]

I have a greater respect for the fragile nature of things...and how we need to know more than how to rent a backhoe!

Thanks, Jay, for the formula. Too bad they messed it up, but now I know to tell people to get an arborist! Don't Harry Homeowner on the trees.

Thanks to WRW for the water damage scenario.
P.S. what is the average life of an oak tree?

John Paul S. : Are deadman anchors guy lines? Would they go into the ground on the healthy side of the tree?

If anyone wants to use this picture as an example of how-not-to, please feel free. And thanks again for your expertise!

 

[Jay Banks]

Sherri,
Are you near Charlestown?

 

[sloomis]

No - I am in Green Spring, close to Romney, WV & closer to Cumberland, MD. I'm in the Eastern Panhandle. The arborists seem to live farther away! Pennsylvania is 10 miles away, Bedford, PA is close.

Well, probably nobody barters except here in WV..but if you know any arborists who would barter tree care for free weekend B&B on the south branch canoeing & fishing let me know. Bill and I would cook some awesome food.

 

[WRW]

sloomis,
700+ years are possible under ideal conditions, though that's not an average.
I apologize for my confusion regarding the chronology of the decline, I read your first post as nearly immediate loss of limb, and may have read more into your description than was there. Oaks are susceptible to flooding.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I would burry the anchors on the feild side of the three with at least a two point system. failur is usualy towards the dead roots (think of standing without your toes).

I would use a dynamic system that does not require drilling like Cobra (sold by our sponsor) or Libra (easier to install).

It is possible that things could be done with theis tree to help it outlive any of us (even kids like Matt! Oh Bob's got more years on me then I do on Matt so I better stop that .)

 

[Mike Starner]

Gentleman please.....

Not only is this tree not savable, its down right hazardous. It should have been removed by Abe Lincoln.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Hazard is defiable by the clients aceptable risk tolerance.

You have to see the tree up close to be able to do a risk evaluation.

Yes it will decline and fall apart, but the desision maker knows this already.

 

[Mike Starner]

I don't belive that you can be subjective on whether or not this tree is hazardous. You can't lead homeowners, that are following this thread, to belive that they can decide what is or isn't hazardous. I know that if I did that at the academy all of the hazard trees that I have removed would still be barely standing.I think that the ethical thing to do is to steer this man away from trying to save this tree. To let this old tree go with some dignity, and protect the dog and kids from an accident.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

We cannot be the decision maker. Only the client can do this. We can state our concerns word our reports so that our liability is covered, but if they want to try make it last a while longer then that is what we are hired to do.

Besides, what is a diginfed tree? All the very old ones in European cities ahev been busted up by wars, storms and human abuse.

If the client understands that the tree is in decline and that limbs are falling, that roots are going, bu still wants to try to carry it along, then there is no ethical problem here. They bare the risk.

In your position the Acadamy (ooo they would be upset if they knew you were using a small "A") you are operating to your employers level of risk tolerance. One of my errors at MCC was not realizing that they have a VERY high level there, and my insistance on tree removal was anathema.

 

[coydog]

If I cut down every tree that I deemed potentially hazardous the majority of my favorite old trees (not to mention historic) would be gone.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

When it comes to making a hazardous tree safe, perhaps keeping people and pets away from the tree is the best.

Perhaps planting some nasty thorn bushes in a pattern around the tree or fencing the area somehow or putting up a little caution sign, whatever it takes. Maybe a cute little picket fence around it with a little plaque.

I would not spend a bunch of money on this tree, yet because of it's historic significance, I would not want to cut it down either.

 

[Jay Banks]

It is hazardous, the target already exists as a picnic table.

Imagine a family having a Sunday afternoon lunch!