6800i rebuild question (an eBay story ...)

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Molecule

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I bought a "parts saw" on eBay, from a pretty clever seller, who alleged that since he wasn't mechanically inclined, and couldn't get the saw started, he thought he'd sell it "for parts or repair." Said, it "had compression" on hand cranking, and it was a Makita DCS-6800 -- the pictures were dark and small, and at the angle they were taken from, it was difficult to draw any conclusions on the condition ... of the saw. But I apparently didn't care. To make a long story short, I jumped on it, figuring that I could probably tweak it nice, and maybe have me a new toy. A week later, the saw arrived.

Boy, this seller, an eBay hooker named "Tim," or "Elliot" or something, from a place called Lakewood, must have seen me coming. This was a parts saw alright ... as in, some very ingenious eBay-hooker took the scrap parts from several saws, and made himself up a parts saw special. (The only other option is that this one saw suffered an amount of abuse which goes beyond the record books.)

As an indication of the abuse the saw has had, the shoulders on the bar nuts are almost completely rounded, and the threading in the crankcase wall for the chain catcher bolt has been completely stripped. One of the two long muffler screws was an original torx, the other was a hex head substitute. The muffler side screw was just missing. Remove the flywheel cover (secured by 2 original torx screws, and 2 hex head substitutes), and the flywheel has a broken fin. Pull the engine off the frame, and the handle bar is bent (but usable) and one of the two front anti-vib lugs is sheared straight thru. The clutch shoes are polished 360°, and the brake band is worn down to paper thin (and its edges razor! sharp). Not even a bubble of oil rises from the oil pump from hand cranking. The rails on both sides of the 18" Makita bar (a GB pro-top) are T'd out, scalloped, and heat burned. And, the saw "has compression," just like the hooker said ... but ahhah!, only in the lower end! D#%! The cylinder has no compression whatsoever! There is no way that saw was ever used as a saw with that little compression. In fact, it takes more effort to pull the piston back down out of the cylinder than it takes to push it up into the cylinder! The piston is so badly scored, and the rings so lock-frozen-burned-in-embedded into the ring grooves at the exhaust port (plus 20° on either side), that there is no resistance on the upstroke and no compression at the top. Zilch.

Hmm, composite "parts saw"-? Hmmm, it needs new flywheel ($100), new piston and clyinder ($170), new clutch, chain brake, anti-vib connector, maybe new oil pump. Not to mention, the "few markings" which the seller alluded to (which I figured were maybe dings and scratches) turn out to be 1" by 4" "ownership gouges" in the rear handle footrest, and again in the metal clutch cover (having different numbers also). So the saw ain't clean, like the darkened pictures suggested. D#%! I must have been real horny or something for a 6800. Looks like I got my first burn on eBay, so it may as well have been a good one. ... So, what to do?

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I think the scoring of the piston was caused when "the owner" stuck a screwdriver or chisel or something into the exhaust port, after he snapped a fin on the flywheel, maybe to to pull the clutch. The top of the piston has a 1/16" deep gouge at the lip, and there is a snag in the top opening of the exhaust port in the cylinder wall, at exactly at same place. So, some kind of hard sharp object was jammed into the exhaust port, and then the crank was leaned on. I'm guessing that the last time the was started, the flame front "got around" to the side of the piston at that ding, where it quickly cooked the side of the piston at the exhaust port ... the side wall heat then accelerated into local seizure and buildup of more heat and carbon grunge, which further ground up the piston walls, and heat-compacted the metal-carbon grunge into the ring grooves, seizing the rings and killing compression (in the cylinder that is-- lol).

My first goal is to just get the thing started if I can ... so I rekkon I need me some compression. I tried straight 2-cycle oil. Hopeless! The gouges in the piston are too deep! Air just blows right by them. Amazingly, the cylinder walls are scratched up, as in not perfect, but they are not nearly as bad -- being of a *much harder material than the piston. So, I took some emery cloth to "polish" (LOL) the grunge and stuff off the cylinder walls just above the exhaust port. I also "smoothed" down the nick in the top lip of the exhaust port opening. (How much damage can I do to a cylinder that is probably going to be chucked anyway.) To free up the piston rings ... I tried heat (to no avail) and "circumferential pushing" where I inserted a solid copper spacer into each ring gap and then tried to mechanically squeeze the excess circumference around the piston to the seized up area, so as to push the ring out of the groove (also, to no avail). Those rings are heat seized into their grooves or something.

Anybody have any ideas on how I might free up the seized rings, so I can maybe get this thing started ... or, should I just ... heave it and call it a lesson learned? (Or, anybody have a used but serviceable type 'A1' piston for a 6800? Just about anything will do.) What should I do next? (I don't think I'm going to hassle with trying to "get justice" on eBay ... I'd rather get the saw running if I can.)
 
If it were me, I'd put it back on ebay, but include the description you just gave here. Even as it is, some nut on Ebay will probably give $30 or $40 for it. I sold an incomplete, non-running sachs dolmar 133 on Ebay for almost $200, and the people who got it were satisfied. Go figure.
 
I almost bid on that saw. I'm not happy you ended up with it, but I'm glad I didn't. Is the muffler in good shape? I could use a muffler. Is there anything that is good on it yet? Is the gas tank okay? I'd give you $50 if the tank and muffler are okay, if you ship it to me.
 
I have made some risky eBay deals in my day, but all well so far. My ms 290 I paid $50 for. they said a tree fell on it but it ran good. The top handle, airfilter cover and bar cover were broke,hole in the gas tank. Jb welded the tank new handlebar and duct taped air filter cover untill I got a new one and it was a new saw Never replaced bar cover works fine.

031 $75 condition?? low compression when I got it piston cyliner good 1 ring stuck cleaned it reassebled it viola 150lbs new carb kit fuel line and it pulls the ridiculos 32inch bar it came with.

Stihl 046 I just bought have not got yet. $150 turns over spark low compression. missing bar cover airfilter cover and filter. but otherwise looks great. New piston cyliner expected, new max flow air filter kit and bar cover and I got a fresh saw with low hours on the bottom end. I believe it was blown up by a "amateur" probably used without airfilter or straight gas. I will update with progress. High expectations.

I am only 16 New saws are not in my budget. If I can get a $300 fresh 046 I will be as happy as they come. :blob2:
 
Are you talking about this saw?
6800

First, I would make your case with the seller, maybe he'll take it back or at least refund some of the price. He might not want a negative if it's avoidable.
If he's not receptive, give him some nasty feedback.

You have to remember that when you are gambling, you have a good chance of losing ;) And that's what buying saws on Ebay, on the chance of a quick fix, is. On the up side, you already got an offer for $50 for some parts, and you could probably part out the rest, to ease a little pain. Before you put any $$ into it, I'd have the bottom end checked out. You could also shelve it and wait for another one to come up in running but smashed condition and then combine the two.

Did I tell you about the 55R I got for parts off Ebay, well it's a 51 once you get the 55 plastic off it ;) It was the ole " it was running fine when put away last season" pitch, Horsechit! But I was after the 55R plastic anyway, which was good, so no harm no foul. The piston was cooked, it had some hammer alterated muffler from some other saw and because it was shipped full of gas and oil, there is now a huge sign in my post office admonshing such things. I might add I'm getting the evil eye when I go in there, lol!!!

BTW, why do you need to get the ring unstuck? That's now junk, you need a new piston set at a minimum.
 
The rubber mount buffers are worth $25 if they are in good shape. They fit almost every larger Sachs-Dolmar saw for years back.

All this talk is making me nervous about the 115 I bought that had good compression and ran great a year ago but won't start now. Of course, I paid for it two weeks ago when I won the auction, have emailed the seller twice wondering where it is, and have heard absolutely nothing yet :angry:
 
I'd just put the new parts in and keep it. might be worth it.
Do the rubber buffers fit the 120 series?
 
I think I'm going to give it a try.

(Trimmmed: yup! that's the saw. 130 for the saw + shipping.) I emailed the seller, basically juxtaposing his ... what shall I call it ... remorseless puffery ... against his good conscience. Dead silence. If he ain't got one of the latter, I don't rekkon that I'm gonna send him the saw, hoping that he will then return my money. And if his soul is so wounded that he imagines the world is waiting just to hit him over the head with a crowbar (or do something else with it), I don't rekkon he's going to send me a refund, in the hope that I would return the saw. In any case, I need a 24" saw with a full wrap handle, and this saw can be rebuilt to fill that need. It's just going to cost a little more than a new one. One thing, it weighs a little less than the 64-7900! and I don't mind the old fashioned frame. So, I'll start with a piston set, and some gaskets and screws.

The cylinder has a burn spot in it, about 1/4" to the flywheel side of the exhaust port (hmmm .. fan side is probably cooler). I steel wooled and emery clothed it down pretty good ... I think (famous last words) ... but if it chunks up a new piston after a few hours, I can always put on a piston-clyinder set. Any tricks to revitalizing a slightly burned cylinder wall? There are also some small vertical grooves in the cylinder wall extending from the top of the exhaust port up to the top of the head, so I'll definitely have to keep an eye on things there.

As to thee lower end, the connecting rod is certainly tight, and I going just take a leap to find out about the seals. (Boy, wouldn't that be my luck.)

Based on the remaining height of the "nubble" on the oil pump (measuring 0.055"), can anyone estimate how many hours/years etc. the lower end might have spent driving the pump? It doesn't look like it's had that much wear, so that's a little uplift. (Man, the geometer who figured out how that little pump would actually pump bar oil was a genius. Just thinking about what is going on there makes me dizzy!)

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The plunger gear doesn't look like its centered ... possibly indicating that the nubble is worn down ... anyone know if this is what a healthy oil pump looks like?

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When I order a piston set, does anyone know how to order a spare parts piston for an "A" cylinder. The parts lists just show one part number. Or is the spare piston a generic one size fits all A, B or C cylinders, which might be a little smaller in diameter, and therefore ideal for the speed bumps that are left on the cylinder walls. Anyone know?

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*Also, anyone have any suggestions on the best way to put that dern little spring clip back in to hold the wrist pin? Man, them little things ... when they jump off your pliers, they some kind of fly off into outer space ... alot of stored energy and no weight = high escape velocity. I rekkon the gap should not line up with the little depression where you can get your needle nose pliers in there to get it out, but ... how to get it back in ... any suggestions ...

There was a nice looking Dolmar 120 which sold just after the Makita. Didn't look like a rental unit, which most Makita are, so it looked clean. (Oldsaw-addict: for your work in process, I uploaded a link to the service manual for your 120 in case you don't have one.) The pics are repeats of the above.
 
Last edited:
trimmmed said:
Are you talking about this saw?
6800
.


Molecule,

You never said if this was the saw in question. You stated the pictures were bad. If the saw posted is the correct saw then I see nothing wrong with the pics. They appear to be clear. As for the engine damage it is tough to picture that and you must rely on the seller which obviously lied.. You mentioned the torx screws that had been replaced with hex heads. Have you ever purchased a T-27 head screw ? They run $1 each from Stihl and I can buy a box of 100 hex head 5mm X 20mm for $10. It is tough to spend $1 for a item that can be bought for $0.10. I am in no way defending the seller I am just pointing out a few things.

Bill
 
Bill -- I mentioned to Trimmmed in my post, that's the saw. And, you're right, there's nothing wrong with the pictures ... until that is, they are compared with the actual product. (I am assuming that you haven't seen the actual saw?) ... The second eBay picture shows the chain cover side ... and it looks like the side plate has had less than normal use. But the actual one looks like the attached image ... it has the regular "few markings" of happy use, and it has the tell-tale gouge markings of a rental inventory control number.

Then, look at the "exciting and vital" picture of the "carb." Then look at how oddly the picture was framed ... so as to put the topic of the picture, the carb and the air-filter/cover, off center and down at the bottom. That framing just happens to leave out a different 7-digit number, whatever it is, which had been gouged into the plastic handle-footplate. Had the carb photo been centered on the carb, at the same level of detail, the bottom edge of the picture would have included some of the numbers which had been carved into the footplate. Uh Oh! That would have offered a clue that the saw was probably not an owner operated saw, but was rental inventory or something. Since the numbers gouged into the footplate are different from those gouged into the side plate, I left to wonder, "Why two numbers for the same saw? The next purchaser will be confronted with the same problem! (I'd gladly show the footplate marking, but it's too high off my scanner, and I don't have a digital camera. FYI: the numbers on it are "7420-717 / SER"
 
I believe E-Bay offers a garantee in such cases of fraud or such to settle disputes.

Did you contact E-Bay ?

At least E-Bay can take this guy off and he will not be screwing someone else on E-Bay in the near future.
 
Lobo said:
I believe E-Bay offers a garantee in such cases of fraud or such to settle disputes.

Did you contact E-Bay ?

At least E-Bay can take this guy off and he will not be screwing someone else on E-Bay in the near future.


HA!!! You can think that! Ebay just cares about collecting its fees.
 
Did the seller have a history of selling chainsaws? I try to stay away from gambling when the seller doesn't have a history selling the type of product I'm interested in. It might be difficult in that case to prove intent to defraud, as the seller just can claim he didn't know, and that may be the truth.
 
Not RIPPED OFF

The auction STATES "I am SELLING FOR PARTS OR REPAIR".

This was a G & L auction....... Gamble & LOOSE. Take your lumps and move on.

Part or repair is what your got...
 
Is there an inexpensive way to pull a flywheel ?

suitable for parts or repair is exactly what I wanted ... that part of the deal squares just fine with me ... but then there's the : "wont start ... but has compression [but only in the lower end--sucker]." And then, there's the "few markings" while including photos which effectively conceal the markings, and then when the saw arrives they are very prominent features of the saw, and indicate a probable life of the saw as a rental. And then I get a saw which is not "a rental saw" but a composite parts saw made up of damaged parts from saws with two different "inventory numbers." There is plenty of room for the seller to have been a little more on the up and up with the eBay community, especially about the compression. Maybe he's acting dumb, or, as a cutout for a buddy ... who knows ... I'm way past it now ...

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shoot ... I was hoping to open a fun thread where the topic was not about eBay horrors, but about rebuilding a saw from eBay ... I've decided to repair the saw, so ...

Anybody know how I can pull this flywheel without purchasing a $60 Makita flywheel puller? (Their puller screws into the 20-22(?) mm threaded spindle and then screws out against the crankshaft.) Can I use a heavy brass mandrill and put a nice whack to the crank, using the mass of the flywheel to loosen it up, without hurting bearings etc.? any other methods?
 
I'd try the brass rod and hammer. It might pop loose. The puller would be a better idea, as far as keeping the impact out of the bearings, but I don't think I've hurt a saw yet using the impact method. If you can hang the weight of the saw from the flywheel, or get a little pry bar or screwdriver behind the flywheel, it will help. Just be very careful to be against something solid.
 
only thing i take excepyion to is whether this guys so clever or not..
its a stupid man that never learns to at least try an be honest..
but i guess parts saw means take as is.. still that bad ,he should have said totally used up parts .. SAW. . iguess it could be called an saw..
 
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