a little help repairing two Echo CS-305 saws?

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808pants

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All the Echo saws I've seen in the shop seem to be made pretty good. All the ones I've run seem to lack alittle power CC for CC compared to other top brands but is power everything? I've seen a bunch of old Echo's still running quite well after many years of use. Longivity and reliabilty should be included when judging a product, not power alone. Biggest problem with Echo is Home Depot. For every Echo dealer,and they are far and few in between, there are a 100 Home Depots selling Echo and not backing them up with parts and service. Sadly without Home Depot Echo would probably be out of business, with Home Depot their name gets alittle tarnished from lack of service and parts. The Echo product itself from all the ones I've seen seem to be made quite well.

Gotta concur with the above - I really liked my first CS-305 for occasional almost-safe one-handed operation and other feats, until it developed an erratic too-high idle while under warranty. Depot referred me to the authorized repair place. Six weeks later, it came back to me, with the repair tag and bag-o-parts telling me they'd replaced the plug/filter/gas-filter. Hell, I coulda done THAT... And guess what? Same crappy running.

Unfazed, I returned it with Depot's sympathy. I eventually bought another one, too, thinking that diagnosis might be easier if I had two - a good one to swap out known good parts from when needed, plus I needed a second lightweight saw for some extreme hillside work.

Well, one way or another, both saws ended up being run without air-filters - unintentionally - and sucking in considerable crap in that process. (It's easy not to see this condition, since the carb/air-box opening faces the tip of the bar on this model.)

When "saw A" did this, it quit running before I noticed the missing filter. I first sprayed out the air-intake box & carb throat with brakleen (volatile solvent-cleaner in a spray-can, but not specifically for carb-cleaning). I tried starting it, but no joy. I then pulled the carb out, looked into the valve and saw that, predictably, a little chunk of wood had lodged in there, keeping the valve from sealing. "Eureka," right? Got it back together after considerable futzing with a gasket that wouldn't stay in place, and repeating this carb removal/replacement to get the throttle-linkage working right, it fired right up. But since it was already well after dark and I didn't want to annoy neighbors, I stopped after just a few seconds of running, well-satisfied that my long-winded repair effort was not for nothing.

Next morning, I put a new filter on it and went to fire it up, still glowing from my repair success. Normally, full choke followed by two solid pulls gives a "cough of life," and then with choke off, it will start right up. This time too, the choke-cough happened, but on taking the choke off and pulling again - nothing. Back to THAT again?

Sweat-soaked and cussing up a storm, I gave up again, fifteen minutes later, and set the saw aside. No combination of throttle/choke seemed to do anything anymore, other than the occasional teasing choke-cough.

Saw B (identical) was still running fine... until yesterday. I keep it up on the steep hillside which I am slowly clearing of trash trees, and I had used it on a bunch of cuts the other morning...when I noticed, to my horror, that the filter-cover and filter were just gone. I had no idea how long that might have been the case, but the air-box was well-peppered with debris, the filter-cover and filter apparently having vibrated off at some point. Still, it was running pretty well, though the idle seemed to be varying and maybe too high. I fired it up one last time, just to verify that it was still going to run OK if I just cleaned some of the crap out and put a new filter and cover on it. It ran well enough, so I put it away for the day & my next trip up the hill.

Next day, I headed up the hill with a new filter/cover, and a can of brakleen, planning to spray out the air-box before putting the new filter in place. I sprayed it out, holding the carb intake lowest, to minimize the amount of solvent that might get into the carb (and perhaps momentarily affect running or starting.) I wish now that I had tried to start it first, but I didn't have any real fears about it not surviving the simple cleaning it needed...but suffice it to say that it is now behaving identically to the first saw - coughs on the second pull with the choke on, but beyond that, no life signs.

I am beginning to wonder if the brakleen solvent can somehow do more than I would have thought to harm something I would not have expected to be hurt by even the brief exposure...but that may be unrelated.

Anyway, what's a good diagnostic?

BTW, not knowing much about two-strokes, I was surprised to see that the intake on this saw leads through the reed-valve and directly into the crankcase...is this a typical design? On that same track, is it possible/likely that I've sucked in enough wood-chip debris to affect the bottom-end of these saws?
 
I'd pull the mufflers and see if the pistons are damaged, and since it sounds like the filters vibrated loose I'd check and make sure all the bolts are tight - on the intake/carb, cylinder, etc... It could be an air leak. Have you cleaned the carburetors, when I say clean I mean have you disassembled them and thoroughly cleaned them? I don't think the Brakleen would hurt anything, but I'm not 100% sure. Also, did you check to see if there were wood chips stuck in the reed valve assy? I'm sure others will chime in with other ideas....

Although there are several different types of intake configurations on different saws, on all 2-stroke engines for that matter, Fuel always goes through the bottom end first, then up through the transfer ports to the cylinder to be ignited. The fuel/oil mix has to pass through the crankcase in order to lubricate the cranksahft and main bearings. It's very important that 2-stroke bottom ends are air tight, leaking crank seals, worn bearings and loose intakes and cylinders can all cause leaks.
 
one down, one to go - stumbling through Echo saw repairs

Thanks, mattinky - I got one saw going now.

Even with the overly-detailed description I posted, I neglected to mention one annoying detail. The primer-bulb had burst in "saw A", so I put that part on my "to order" list and temporarily joined the pump's clear "in" tube to the black return-to-tank tube, and had expected the saw would run, albeit maybe poorly. I figured those pumps are a relatively new innovation (at least I don't recall them on saws from when I was a kid) and that I could probably get it to run at least somewhat without the pump - and would be able to watch the clear line to see if my assumption was wrong. And though there seemed to be fuel in the tube if I held the saw at the right angles, obviously it wasn't running, as I was complaining before.

So without much to lose, I decided to pull the good primer off saw B...and yeah, it made a difference. So even if there's fuel in the clear line, it apparently doesn't mean things are purging/flowing right, though I don't quite see why that bulb would make a difference as long as there's enough gas to start the thing up - the bulb doesn't do anything actively, only when priming, right? Hmmm...

Saw "B" is another matter.

Looking at the reed-valve, should the reed be tight and fully-closed when relaxed, or might it be intended to be just slightly open? Mine is probably 1/32" or so from closed - I can tap it closed with the end of a screwdriver and it clicks shut. (I know, I could open the good saw up and check that one...) There wasn't any chunky debris holding this valve open, as there had been in Saw A.

If that's not it: well, I did take off the muffler; it was a little grungy, but nothing cloggy, really. Cleaned some small particulate off the screen, watched the piston move a few cycles, and reinstalled it. It still did the choke-cough thing, with no other sign of wanting to start.

And I'm leery of getting into the carb unless it's vital. My thinking is this: the barrel is spotless (after cleaning), and I figure that there couldn't have been much if any contamination from the missing air-filter-debris, since - and correct me if I'm wrong - there's no vacuum pulling IN to any of the jets or other fuel-related openings that would tend to pull debris into them; if anything, the fuel-flow would tend to keep crap OUT of these ports, right? I have the fear that I'll start destroying fragile gaskets and such if I do get into the carb - in fact, if someone says my reed-valve is normal and it's just gotta be my carb, then I'd first swap in the carb from Saw A than get into this one, just to diagnose properly. Wrong thinking?

I also managed to break the carb gasket in two, so I gotta get one of those on the way here before I can reassemble right...'less I start using some sealant...

Might there be a concern about gross levels of debris in the crankcase? I can't see much in there, but I know it went in - will it tend to blow/wash through anyway?

Mahalo,

'pants
 

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