Advice on starting a couple of white oaks (Quercus alba)?

[MzHopsing]

Hi all! I've been wanting to make room for a couple of white oaks on our woodland because of their benefit to such a wide range of wildlife, but I'm not finding much in the way of information on when to plant saplings. In my web searches, I'm finding several sites that advise growing from acorn, as they apparently do not transplant well. And that saplings have an intolerance for shade. At any rate, if acorn is the way to go, it's too late for this year anyway, but wanted to hear what you guys thought?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Del_]

Gather the acorns and plant them now. Do a lot so you have some selection. Grow them to several feet for several years before selecting those you want.

 

[MzHopsing]

That's the thing, I don't have any acorns, and I think that even if I knew of any white oaks in the vicinity, the acorns are probably gone now, or I'd probably have to fight some squirrel or deer for them. I also can't find any acorns for sale in any online nurseries. I only recently learned that it's better to just go with acorns than trying to transplant a sapling, but I sure can find a lot of saplings for sale at different sites. I'd hate to get a few and then have them not survive... *sigh* The Arbor Day foundation will ship them in November, and others won't deliver until December! I've never heard of planting trees in the winter before (neither has the hubby; we must live under rocks or something ), and like I said, I can't find any information on when to best plant them. Should they be potted until spring and then planted outside then?
No urgency or anything really, as it's probably too late for this year... but help!

 

[Del_]

Plant them now.

If you look you can find them but the won't fall into your living room.

Large white oaks drop thousands.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiLvf3NgtHPAhVBLyYKHeoVDxEQFgg6MAc&url=http://www.museum.state.il.us/exhibits/symbols/tree.html&usg=AFQjCNGF0zfy2s4xSmDhNZTXgNEf89vsPw&sig2=kE6tnunP7_YIGld9fRYQMg

 

[MzHopsing]

Thanks for the responses and the link Del, but neither have given me an answer to my question. The link you included is just about how the white oak is Illinois state tree, and it's history. Repeatedly telling me to 'plant them now' is not helping. I would love to plant right now, but I've told you why I cannot. And yes, clearly white oak acorns are not going to just fall into my living room, into my lap or on my head. Yes, I could wander aimlessly and look for them right this moment, but, in the woods, it's possible I won't get the right acorns from the right species of oak. I could order some sprouts/saplings and have them in a week (or in November, depending on where I order them), but for the third time, my question is: As far as sprouts/saplings, is planting in November or December going to be good for the tree? Or should I pot it, keep it inside, and wait until spring?

Anyone?

 

[ray benson]

https://hort.purdue.edu/ext/falltreeplanting.html
http://www.gardenmyths.com/best-time-planting-trees/
I have saved acorns from Black Oak and White Oak trees. Planted them in the spring, rabbits and critters got them all once they started leafing out. My success rate for growing them to about a foot tall was 100%. But the rabbits success rate eating them to stubs was also 100%.

 

[Del_]

Thanks for the responses and the link Del, but neither have given me an answer to my question. The link you included is just about how the white oak is Illinois state tree, and it's history. Repeatedly telling me to 'plant them now' is not helping. I would love to plant right now, but I've told you why I cannot. And yes, clearly white oak acorns are not going to just fall into my living room, into my lap or on my head. Yes, I could wander aimlessly and look for them right this moment, but, in the woods, it's possible I won't get the right acorns from the right species of oak. I could order some sprouts/saplings and have them in a week (or in November, depending on where I order them), but for the third time, my question is: As far as sprouts/saplings, is planting in November or December going to be good for the tree? Or should I pot it, keep it inside, and wait until spring?

Anyone?

I sent the link so you could identify a white oak. You may find one growing in a residential yard mostly alone. I see lots of them.

If you can't figure out how to get the acorns, then growing them to size is probably out of the question as it takes work and ingenuity.

Chicken wire makes nice cheap barriers for saplings.

 

[ATH]

Try golf courses or cemeteries to see if you can find acorns there.

You can plant seedlings or saplings any time the trees are dormant and you can dig in the soil.

 

[MzHopsing]

Thank you Ray and ATH - This is what I was looking for. For saplings I worry about the replanting "shock" unless I can plant on a more mild late-fall, early-winter day. They're predicting a "normal" winter for IL at least, so I don't imagine there'll be much in the way of deep freezes here. As far as protecting new plants from wildlife, every year I make dozens of semi-dense wire cages made from fencing (mostly my creations, to additionally protect my plants/trees from my weed-wacking hubby), that go up as soon as they're in the ground.

At any rate, I'll keep an eye out as I drive around to see if I can spot a likely candidate and hopefully there'll be some acorns left about, but likely I'll be ordering some seedlings or bare root saplings and going from there.

Thanks you guys.

 

[mohick]

Just now going into the best time to plant them!! always best to transplant in the dormant season, spring sucks for trees

 

[Del_]

Where will the seeds for the purchased seedlings come from?

Chances are, not from your area. This can be not so good.

Provenance:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/03650e/03650e05.htm

 

[MzHopsing]

It's good to know that I have a little time left to get them in the ground, but you bring up a valid point, Del... and the seedlings I'm looking at will be coming from Mississippi. Much, much farther south than I anticipated. From a past visit to Louisiana in February some years back, you southern folks don't have much of a winter down there! Other than being in the northern hemisphere and that we're both east of the Mississippi river, that's about all we have in common, I think.

At any rate, that was a very technical paper you linked to there, Del, but I gathered that it was an introduction or a guide for researchers into a future study of provenance, because I could see no conclusions made anywhere. It's possible I missed them. I'm waiting for a reply from the nursery down there to see what they have to say on this topic; maybe they've had documented successes with other customers in the past that live as far or further north than me, I hope. Who knows. I'm only going to be spending about $20, but I'll be doing all I can to see they survive. Will pampered southern white oak seedlings be able to hack it in the tougher northern climate? Time will tell! And maybe I'll post my provenance results right here on this site!

 

[Del_]

1st. It's not about the $20. you'll be spending. It's about the years of care it takes to get the white oaks established and then the next couple of hundred years or so that they will be living.
2nd. All you need to know about provenance is that you need local seeds or seedlings. The nursery can't be trusted as they stand to profit from the sale.
3rd. I've been a self employed arborist for 30 years. You're not the first person to resist good advice and you won't be the last.

Good luck.

 

[maplegrovetom]

Mz, check coldstreamfarm.net in northern Michigan. They sell small quantities retail, and ship in the fall. Plant them, water them in good, put trunk guards or screen around them to keep the animals away and mulch heavily. They will grow with no problems. They also have swamp white oaks (Q. bicolor) which grow a little faster than Q. alba.