Advice wanted for pulling a tree over using a cable.

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Stihl Alive

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I know a guy that wants me to pull down a very rotten tree for him. Not for money, I just owe him a favor. Is anyone willing to give me some advice on how to properly use steel cable to complete such a task? I know most of you don't care too much for me after the whole "I'm gonna spike pines in my free time" saga. But this is a relatively harmless job, no targets at all, as long as I KNOW HOW TO USE CABLE PROPERLY. I'm purchasing a 200 ft reel of cable, some thimbles, and some rope clips. I think I've got the jist of using a thimble and rope clips on the "come-along" end, but I'm unclear about how the cable should be properly fastened to the tree. I could put a rope on it and probably snatch it down with a 4X4, but I want to learn some basic cabling techniques if anyone is willing to share their knowledge.



thanks in advance,
 
I have made up my own cables to pull trees, or trucks. If it is 3/8", which it should be, at least, then you only need two cable clamps on each end. I figure about 6" back from the thimble. Here is how.

1) put on the cable clamps very loosly, bend the cable and slide the clamps over it.
2) insert the thimble, push one clamp up to it, it can be hard as it will want to slide back.
3) tighten it up a bit with a wrench or ratchet.
4) do the same with the other clamp, leave it about 11/2" from the end.
5) put some pull on the cable, it will make the thimble true.
6) tighten up the clamps to the correct torque.

I have put a hook at one end and used a shackle at the other, have a cable with two eyes also. What you can do is to get the cable up the tree, one end, then use a shackle to attach it to its self. Make sure the pin goes through the thimble, and doesn't run open on the line.

Test it before you use it. Do not let it kink, and so on.
Good luck/Jim
 
Why not just knotch it and watch it? You are gonna need a throwball and throwline to set the cable high enough...If its as rotten as it sounds, i wouldnt wanna be trying to set a line in it, unless nessasary....pulling a line up into it is gonna put some force on the tree itself. Are you using a winch? Little confused as to why you just wouldnt cut the tree down, aka notch and watch. Cabling a tree as I know it is installing a dynamic or static line in a tree to aid in support from wind/snow and other forces. So your using a cable, to pull a tree down?
 
clearance said:
I have made up my own cables to pull trees, or trucks. If it is 3/8", which it should be, at least, then you only need two cable clamps on each end. I figure about 6" back from the thimble. Here is how.

1) put on the cable clamps very loosly, bend the cable and slide the clamps over it.
2) insert the thimble, push one clamp up to it, it can be hard as it will want to slide back.
3) tighten it up a bit with a wrench or ratchet.
4) do the same with the other clamp, leave it about 11/2" from the end.
5) put some pull on the cable, it will make the thimble true.
6) tighten up the clamps to the correct torque.

I have put a hook at one end and used a shackle at the other, have a cable with two eyes also. What you can do is to get the cable up the tree, one end, then use a shackle to attach it to its self. Make sure the pin goes through the thimble, and doesn't run open on the line.

Test it before you use it. Do not let it kink, and so on.
Good luck/Jim
Click to expand...

I think I get what you're saying for the most part. What I'm trying to do is figure out how to use my 200 ft cable when I don't need 200ft. On this job I shouldn't need more than 50 ft. So I get my thimble and clamps installed on the bottom end, then what about the tree end. What is a shackle? I was thinking some way to throw the cable into the tree with a line and weight, then I guess clamp the two parts of cable together somewhat close to the tree. Then I could determine exactly how much cable to use while still having the whole 200ft intact. What am I missing from what you told me?




BTW, thanks for the advice.
 
JS Landscaping said:
Why not just knotch it and watch it? You are gonna need a throwball and throwline to set the cable high enough...If its as rotten as it sounds, i wouldnt wanna be trying to set a line in it, unless nessasary....pulling a line up into it is gonna put some force on the tree itself. Are you using a winch? Little confused as to why you just wouldnt cut the tree down, aka notch and watch. Cabling a tree as I know it is installing a dynamic or static line in a tree to aid in support from wind/snow and other forces. So your using a cable, to pull a tree down?
Click to expand...

I could just notch and watch.or I could notch and pull it over. I just want to get some advice on using cable, so when I cut a larger tree, and need the cable to help with direction (which I will be using almost all the time for the immediate future).

I just want all the cabling advice about parts and petchniques I can get, even for a small, seemingly safe job like this.



PS: I called the local tree service (Out on a Limb) to see if I could work with them some of my days off. I went to grade school with the two brothers that run it. One of them fell out of a tree yesterday so they said no for now until they get all that straightened out.
 
Stihl Alive said:
I think I get what you're saying for the most part. What I'm trying to do is figure out how to use my 200 ft cable when I don't need 200ft. On this job I shouldn't need more than 50 ft. So I get my thimble and clamps installed on the bottom end, then what about the tree end. What is a shackle? I was thinking some way to throw the cable into the tree with a line and weight, then I guess clamp the two parts of cable together somewhat close to the tree. Then I could determine exactly how much cable to use while still having the whole 200ft intact. What am I missing from what you told me?




BTW, thanks for the advice.
Click to expand...

There is no bottom end, only two ends, they need two clamps and one thimble for each end. A shackle, sometimes called a clevis, is piece of metal shaped like a U, with a pin that goes through the two ends.

As far as using a 200' cable when you only need 50', well, that depends on a few things. Like are there other trees around? Do you have blocks, can you possibly put your truck another place further away, things like that.

Main thing is not to kink the cable.
 
clearance said:
There is no bottom end, only two ends, they need two clamps and one thimble for each end. A shackle, sometimes called a clevis, is piece of metal shaped like a U, with a pin that goes through the two ends.

As far as using a 200' cable when you only need 50', well, that depends on a few things. Like are there other trees around? Do you have blocks, can you possibly put your truck another place further away, things like that.

Main thing is not to kink the cable.
Click to expand...


thanks for helping me man. I'm going to keep asking, when you get bored just let me know and I'll give you a break.

What I want to practice on this tree is setting a proper cable, to assist the tree in falling in the right direction. on the ground I will have one end with a thimble and two clips. this is what I will hook the come along to. What would happen if I wrapped the cable around the tree and used two or three wire rop clips to bind the cable together close to the tree? disaster? this would leave tons of slack cable on the ground but would it be sufficient? I think what I'm getting at is do I need to have the cable end to end, and have a thimble and clips on both ends? But that would require a finite length of cable, right?


everyone here knows I'm a rookie. I thought this would be a perfect time to learn something about cabling with little to no risk.
 
How much room do you have, like describe the area, can you go into nieghbors yards or what?
Cable is easy to kink, then its nfg.
You can use trees as blocks, a block is another word for pulley.
 
clearance said:
How much room do you have, like describe the area, can you go into nieghbors yards or what?
Cable is easy to kink, then its nfg.
You can use trees as blocks, a block is another word for pulley.
Click to expand...

there is a house (trailer) about 15 ft behind the tree, and the tree is leaning away from the house. Other than that its open field. I'm somewhat familiar with using a tree for a block (did it a few days ago with a rope). Getting this tree down is not the issue, I'm pretty sure I could take it down with an axe and about 20 minutes. Cabling is my main concern. in this case, how to properly secure the cable to a tree. Maybe I was misleading in my first post. This tree is truly a no brainer. with a small back cut I'm sure it could be pulled down by hand with a rope. I'm trying to learn how to secure cable in the tree and on the ground (tree, truck, etc..) and I thought this would be perfect to practice on. I also have several isolated healthy trees I will be able to practice on next week. Not take downs, just practice.
 
Securing the cable-get the cable up over a branch and around the trunk. Take the shackle and put the long end of the cable inside it. Then take the pin and put it throught the thimble (other end). Tighten the pin.
 
clearance said:
Securing the cable-get the cable up over a branch and around the trunk. Take the shackle and put the long end of the cable inside it. Then take the pin and put it throught the thimble (other end). Tighten the pin.
Click to expand...

that's it? just tighten the pin to put pressure on the cables? is that secure enough to pull/guide, heavier, healthier trees?


thanks for the help
 
Stihl Alive said:
that's it? just tighten the pin to put pressure on the cables? is that secure enough to pull/guide, heavier, healthier trees?


thanks for the help
Click to expand...

The pin puts no pressure on the cable. The shackle should be decent, like "Crosby". Also, the saddle of the clip is on the live part of the line, not the short end. 3/8 i.w.r.c. 6x19 cable will not break unless you are putting more than 5 tons pull on it.

Stihl Alive-look around on the net, type in words like shackle, wire rope, rigging accesories, stuff like that.
 
clearance said:
The pin puts no pressure on the cable. The shackle should be decent, like "Crosby". Also, the saddle of the clip is on the live part of the line, not the short end. 3/8 i.w.r.c. 6x19 cable will not break unless you are putting more than 5 tons pull on it.

Stihl Alive-look around on the net, type in words like shackle, wire rope, rigging accesories, stuff like that.
Click to expand...

http://www.treestuff.com/store/cart.asp?delwish=5

here's what I'm getting today. I'm still confused about the shackle. How does that secure the cable to the tree?
 
Why do you need so much power? Can the rotten tree take all those forces? The higher line goes the more leverage; and you only need enough generally to tip tree. If line goes up 50' from compressed side of hinge (as pivot) and has a 1000# pull on it; it places 25tons of pressure on hinge, is tree that much off balance?

In using cable, the weight of the cable can keep pulling during first folding, but in using rope, elasticity can have same factor to consider. Can set with line with krab to eye, and line down back spine of tree and locked off above cut. Can so much cut (even back without face) be placed so it doesn't need as much high/high risk line tension?
 
I'm lucky. I got a buddy with a CAT 966G loader for that kind of thing. Forget pulling/pushing the tree over, you take the whole thing, roots and all. Calm down I only do that with old fubar trees that were never taken care of. Like the previous comment, search the web for shackles, wire clamps and blocks. Preferably, search for pictures so you know what it looks like. If all else fails, go visit one of your local steel erector or crane service company. I'm sure somebody would be more than happy to show you the proper way to use cables, blocks, and shackles for rigging purposes.
 
cableend.jpg


The 'pin' is threaded and screws into the shackle. This cable really should have had a 'thimble' inserted in the loop but...

To fasten to the tree?...depends.

If you can climb it or use a ladder:

1. I put a loop of chain around the tree and the shackle through a chain loop.

2. Or put two or three loops around the tree and then the shackle over the free end of the cable.

Can't climb or ladder?:

3. Throw line and pull cable up, shackle around cable, pull cable and it will pull the shackle up the cable and against the tree.

Problem with #3 is that it _will_ kink the cable if you pull hard on it.

I would not do one 200 ft cable, Make up several shorter cables and use them end to end as needed. I carry around 200 ft of cable in 50 to 75 ft sections, tow straps, chains and 3 snatch blocks. Have used every one of them on occasion on one 'pull'.

Harry K
 
Never Saddle a Dead Horse

I am not sure but the clamps in the picture may be on backwards. There is a saying to remember, never saddle a dead horse. You have the u-bolt, the saddle and the nuts. The saddle should not go on the dead side of the line, which is the side of the eye with the end of the line. The live side is the longer side.
A kink will weaken the line but the saddle wont. You want the saddle on the live side of the eye which takes most all of the strain.
 

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