Air drying White Ash?

[huskymac]

I know just hang it out the window :monkey:

But seriously folks,

Ive been milling up a lot of White Ash at 1 inch thick for a kitchen I need to build. I try and mill any thing 10 inch's in diameter or larger and like to keep the length 6 to 8 feet just because drying space in my shop is limited. My question is how thin can I CSM and still get good results air drying? I have been lucky enough to find a few logs that have some good solid looking crotches. The first one I milled turned out some really beautiful grain that I plan on making panels out of for some raised panel doors. This got me thinking I sure wish I would have milled the crotch at 3/4" or even 5/8" to get a finished panel around 1/2". I could have got a few more boards, not to mention turning all the beautiful grain into planer shavings.

So can I mill 5/8" crotch and or burls and get them to air dry and still be usable? Any tricks in the drying process?

 

[betterbuilt]

I don't think it matters if its a chainsawmill or a band mill, when your just cutting down through a log your gonna get some cupping. I never bother with 10 inch logs, but as bad as ash warps I'd expect at least 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch of of warping depending on where it come from in the log. I'd cut the outer pieces a little bigger and usually the center two stay pretty flat.

5/8 is pretty thin. I'd try it if I needed some thing that thin. I typically mill 2 inch expecting to get 1.5 to 1.75 inches. I milled some 2.5 inch maple and got 1 7/8 from it. best of luck. I be interested in hearing out how it turns out.

 

[betterbuilt]

This is some ash I cut in the spring. It was cut 2.5 inches. I figure I might get 2 inches if I'm lucky.

 

[BobL]

Aussie wood is known for it's likelihood of warping and checking when milled thinner than 1".

To attempt to control this I have used this simple press arrangement to keep the pressure on drying slabs.

The wood in the press shown above is 2" thick Aussie Swamp Oak (a type of Allocasurina) which is one of the worst for warping, and the press could not stop from warping and twisting.

My best success has been with some 3/4" thick black locust and it came out OK but it was pretty straight grained.

For most crotchwood. I would expect a high pretzel rate at 5/8. My way of approaching to that would be to cut a bunch and see how many you get that are useable.

 

[betterbuilt]

Aussie wood is known for it's likelihood of warping and checking when milled thinner than 1".

To attempt to control this I have used this simple press arrangement to keep the pressure on drying slabs.

The wood in the gizmo shown here is 2" Aussie allocasurina which is one of the worst for warping and the press could not stop from warping and twisting.

My best success has been with some 3/4" thick black locust and it came out OK but it was pretty straight grained.

For most crotchwood. I would expect a high pretzel rate.

Nice contraption BobL. I've had good luck with large ratchet straps on maple and locust.

 

[BobL]

Nice contraption BobL. I've had good luck with large ratchet straps on maple and locust.

Thanks BB. For 1" or less thick stuff I found stickers that were about 12 - 18" apart worked better rather than 24' I use for 2" thicker stuff.

 

[huskymac]

Thanks Guys.

I have only been milling for a few years and most of what I have milled is Ash. I have around 500 bd ft 1 inch thick that has been drying at least a year, some of it more than a year. It seems to be very stable to me. little to no warping and minimal checking. It may be that what I am milling is dead or nearly dead when I mill it. Or maybe and more likely its my drying technique.. As I said before this is destined to become cabinets. I was told years ago while working in a cabinet shop that when gluing up panels It is best to keep the individual boards around 4 to 6 inches and alternate the grain. Looking at the panel edge wise, smile up smile down etc. etc.. With that in mind I slab in the field bring it back to the shop and straight edge one side then split at the pith any thing over 8 inches before it goes on the drying pile. Doing this also makes for a neater more compact stack for drying, maximizing shop space. Smaller boards at least in my mind means quicker drying time.

I think I will try making a few of Bobl s drying clamps and try 1 log at 3/4 inch just to see how it works out. Finding mill able logs is hard around here and I would hate to waist the log, not to mention the shop space for a year or more just to make pretty fire wood.

Im off to mill some more, Thanks again guys!

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I know just hang it out the window :monkey:

But seriously folks,

Ive been milling up a lot of White Ash at 1 inch thick for a kitchen I need to build. I try and mill any thing 10 inch's in diameter or larger and like to keep the length 6 to 8 feet just because drying space in my shop is limited. My question is how thin can I CSM and still get good results air drying? I have been lucky enough to find a few logs that have some good solid looking crotches. The first one I milled turned out some really beautiful grain that I plan on making panels out of for some raised panel doors. This got me thinking I sure wish I would have milled the crotch at 3/4" or even 5/8" to get a finished panel around 1/2". I could have got a few more boards, not to mention turning all the beautiful grain into planer shavings.

So can I mill 5/8" crotch and or burls and get them to air dry and still be usable? Any tricks in the drying process?

IF you are REALLY worried about getting the max amount lumber out of your nicer logs, take it to a band mill, as every 5th board is FREE, because it doesn't get turned into sawdust.

Rob

 

[Ed*L]

IME, milling lumber thin always comes back to haunt you. You will waste more material since it won't clean up where you think it will. In the long run you will be better off milling slighty over 4/4 and it will shrink down 4/4 when dry.

Ed

 

[betterbuilt]

IF you are REALLY worried about getting the max amount lumber out of your nicer logs, take it to a band mill, as every 5th board is FREE, because it doesn't get turned into sawdust.

Rob

I second that! I don't even think about milling a log less than 23 inches around. I drop it off at the bandmill. I save time and money.

 

[huskymac]

23 In diameter

If I only milled logs that big I would have had maybe 2 in the last 2 years. I wish I had access to that kind of size..

All my fire wood and milling comes from a friends farm, he has 2 creek beds and a shelter belt wrapping around 80 acres of corn. He lets me take care of the trees. I get all the dead stands and storm damaged wood. It keeps me in firewood and some milling and he doesn't have to worry about his tree line.

As for taking it to a band miller, where's the fun in that?

 

[betterbuilt]

What I meant to say was any log smaller than 23 inches goes to the bandmill

 

[huskymac]

betterbiult

Taking the smaller stuff to a band mill would be a good way to get the most lumber from any given log. If I sat down and figured the cost of gas maintenance and my time it probably doesn't make any sense at all to CSM. But a lot of the things I do for fun don't really make a lot of financial sense.

My first attempt at milling was on an incredible maple burl. That thing was every bit 3 feet wide and 7 feet tall, around 12 inches thick at the thickest point. Dumb a.. me tried to free hand it with a chainsaw. I got some great bowl blanks and accent wood. My youngest son built a bench in shop class out of some of it. THAT should have gone to a band mill. I waisted a lot of that stuff in the planer.

 

[betterbuilt]

Taking the smaller stuff to a band mill would be a good way to get the most lumber from any given log. If I sat down and figured the cost of gas maintenance and my time it probably doesn't make any sense at all to CSM. But a lot of the things I do for fun don't really make a lot of financial sense.

My first attempt at milling was on an incredible maple burl. That thing was every bit 3 feet wide and 7 feet tall, around 12 inches thick at the thickest point. Dumb a.. me tried to free hand it with a chainsaw. I got some great bowl blanks and accent wood. My youngest son built a bench in shop class out of some of it. THAT should have gone to a band mill. I waisted a lot of that stuff in the planer.

The only way to learn is ask questions or just go for it. The first Slab I made was free handed from a cedar that was planted next to one of the first churches built in America. I pretty much butchered it but I ended up with some nice 2 inch slabs. You know the rest of the tree was burned just to get rid of it.

 

[Mad Professor]

The worst problem with ash is endchecks. Anchorseal the logs the SAME day you buck them. If you trim the ends after milling endseal again.

I do not recommend drying in a shop unless lt's only a bunch of boards with good ventilation. You can air dry outside by placing two cants ( 6X 6 ) on some cinder blocks, then placing 4 x 4 material ca . 18" crosswise. stack and sticker the boards with stickers lined up with the 4 X 4. Cover with some plastic coragated roofing, put wieghts so it don't blow off. If you have lower grade put that on before the roofing to weight the pile and/or band it.

If it is dry/summer set this up in the shade to further prevent checks

 

[oldsaw]

Currently in a debate with my father about a big ash he has on the farm. He wants to bandmill it, I want to CSM it. I'm looking at the cost of gas and oil, and figuring the cost of the "saved" lumber over the charge for the whole job. About 800bft in the tree, so as Rob says, a 20% loss would be 160bft. "Saving" that wood would run somewhat under $3bft. Mathematically, I'd CSM it. Add to that, my example is big logs in a hard to reach spot, although I could get them out.

I'm a cheapskate log scavenger. Don't ask me.

As for drying, Dad has hundreds of bft in the barn that he hasn't paid much attention to. It has all dried quite flat with little damage. I have a few very nice boards from him. Just have to plane the coon crap off of it.

 

[BlueRider]

There are two important things in predicting how much warping a species of wood will have when drying one is the ratio of tangential to radial shrinkage. the lower the ratio the better. By itself this ratio can be miss leading if you think that the lower a ratio a species is the less it will warp. Equally imprtant is the amount of shrinkage.

for instance ash has a r/t of 1.6 and live oak has a r/t of 1.4 which might lead one tho think that live oak would have less warping than ash when drying. However if you look at the percentage of tangential shringage for each species the ash is 7.8 and the oak is 8.9. This means that even though the ratio for the oak is better ballanced it will shrink more than the ash over all and this leaves more room for warping.

throw in internal stress factors for some species or rayflecking and how it affects drying and there are even more than just these two factors that predict how much a board will warp when drying.

Whith all that said I have found ash to be one of the most well behaved hardwoods i have ever milled. If there is a chance of succesfully drying 1/2" thick boards it would be with ash. I would probably be inclined to follow Bobs advise about shortening up the distance between stickers and adding a bit of extra weight to the pile.

 

[huskymac]

Amazing!

The wealth of knowledge and the willingness to share you folks dole up daily!

I haven't been milling long and have only had the chance to put a saw to Ash, Walnut, Maple and one Hedge tree. The Hedge was just for fun I thought I might get some sill plate lumber out of it. The poor tree had a bad lean and a good twist in the trunk. I didn't get any sill plate sizes to dry any where close to straight. So that's my sticker and stacking supply. I also made up a bucket of Hedge wedges smaller ones for milling and larger ones for felling.

But as Bluerider said,the Ash I have milled has done very well. It pretty much stayed the same shape as when I stacked it to dry. Some minor checking on a few boards but nothing over 2 inches. The more severe checks seemed to take place right where you would expect them. Like having a knot or some other feature landing close to the end of the board.


Mad Professor. Your suggestion to not dry in the shop. Is that just concern for excess humidity around the tools? Or is there some other reason?

Thanks again !