Have not been a fan of using oils branded this way, not that I don't believe they meet spec's and do the job. It's just that whole contracted out to the real oil company with the best bid, and them working with a small profit margin, and the profit kick back to the company on the label. No real basis here... just seems open to lesser quality, or still top quality... just higher cost of the product due to the ability to suck in people sold on this being the only oil for their product.
Amsoil in your chainsaw?
- Thread starter StihlyinEly
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huskystihl
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sounds to me like your shop sells klotz. I appreciate the fact that you work in a performance shop or whatever it is, but I can tell ya that I run saws for hours a day. I'm not here to say that amsoils the greatest thing on earth or that klotz or stihl isn't but I can tell ya that my t- handle sees more hours in a week than most guys saw will see all year. My last new saws were ran from day one on sabre at 75/1 as well as the backups and the backups to them. I switched from ultra due to carbon issues mainly spark arrestors cloggin way before their time as well as pistons carbed up on new saws. Like many others 100/1 scares the heck out of me but my saws have seen some 90 deg 10 hr days where the saws only stopped to refuel with no issues. I switched to amsoil simply because i've ran it in my wifes volvo from day 1,she's a traveling sales rep. I switched to amsoil at that time because are mechanic couldn't keep up on oil changes and recomended it for 25,000 miles between them. That was 235'000 miles ago. I figure if thats not proof in the pudding I don't know what is. I'm sure klotz is good oil but most auto parts stores would look at you like you had an arm growing out of your head if you asked for klotz, because like 99% of the public they've never heard of it. I would like to add that if there was to be a problem in a saw I would have seen it in one hot july day let alone more than.
I run Saber Pro in my saws, blowers, weedeaters, mowers and snowblower. No problems at all but I run it at 50:1...no way would I run any oil at 100:1 premix. Use the Interceptor in my sled for the last couple of years too.
Floteck....going on about castor oil. It has good properties for a two stroke lube, but it doesn't burn off as clean as you think...lots of gums and comes out of pre mix suspension at lower temps. With that said, I don't have experience with the Klotz oil you talk about...
Floteck....going on about castor oil. It has good properties for a two stroke lube, but it doesn't burn off as clean as you think...lots of gums and comes out of pre mix suspension at lower temps. With that said, I don't have experience with the Klotz oil you talk about...
huskystihl
Addicted to ArboristSite
I would like to also add to my previous post that I actually seen an increase in engine performance simply because of the motor running cleaner. I don't know where you get more oil= more power? I can make a new saw run pretty weak at 10/1 versus 50/1. Sorry but that statement doesn't ring true, theres a fine line between running rich and bluhhh.
swyman
ArboristSite Operative
I use Amsoil series 2000 2 stroke racing oil. Was a Klotz fan for years till a co-worker brought in a piston from his son's dirtbike from a season of racing. No top of the piston was clean and on the underside there was oil residue sticking to the bottom of the piston in as bright of red as what's in the container before use. This was after a season of racing motocross every weekend, and they would usually do the ironman on Sunday. Made a believer out of me, have been running it in all my 2 strokes. 32:1 in my Stihl 460 with no smoke. No I am not a dealer or have any ties to Amsoil.
lngbeard
ArboristSite Lurker
I have a point that seems to have been missed. Oil in the gas provides the lubricant. The gas itself is the coolant. More oil in the gas retains more heat. I run the leanest (gas/oil not air/fuel) mix I can without the plug turning white. Never had a fuel related failure. More oil does not equal better engine performance, just adds excess heat. As long as the oil wedge is maintained between metal parts any more oil is waste.
swyman
ArboristSite Operative
Never thought of it like that but you make sense. I was running that rich because I thought it would lubricate better and keep it cooler> HMMM.
More Oil-More Power
Lots more info out there, just need to look.http://www.bridgestonemotorcycle.com/documents/oilpremix6.pdf
http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbike/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=400487
porsche965
Addicted to ArboristSite
Great links, sheds a new light on mixes.
dingeryote
Blueberry Baron
Just for ####s and giggles, I am gonna mix up some classic Castor bean oil 2-stroke mix at 32-1 and run it in my 455 for a weekend.
I for one am sick of all the hype and nonsense.
Castor oil is Organic and a renewable resource. Global climate change started about the same time folks switched to non castor oil 2 stroke mix...coincidence? Nope!!!
Burn the Bean oil....it's what the planet craves.
Stay safe!
Dingeryote
I for one am sick of all the hype and nonsense.
Castor oil is Organic and a renewable resource. Global climate change started about the same time folks switched to non castor oil 2 stroke mix...coincidence? Nope!!!
Burn the Bean oil....it's what the planet craves.
Stay safe!
Dingeryote
huskystihl
Addicted to ArboristSite
Nope not the case at all. Sorry But the I need to mix the fuel at 32//1 is old timer thinking. Just like any old time mechanic will tell you that no motor oil will last 25,000 miles. My wifes dad is just the type i'm talking about but then I gave him the results from an oil analysis that a lab did on my powerstroke at 20k that said I should try getting 30k out of it. Even my old time stihl shop stresses not overmixing. He even sells and very much believes in opti2 which is a 100/1 mix. Yhe more oil more power thing is down right not the case. My truck calls for 14 qts so I guess 18 qts will make it run better?
porsche965
Addicted to ArboristSite
Agree.
2 stroke is different than 4 stroke.
Read post 48. It is a proven fact not baseless testimonials.
oneoldbanjo
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well I read the 2 articles in Post 48....and they were informative. I am not sure how much of that relates to chainsaw use. The PE250 was supposed to be run with a 20:1 mix......our chainsaws at 50:1. They used Bean Oil.....I use synthetic. The PE 250 engine was not being run at full load and full throttle on the dyno as it is not made for sustained full throttle use/and the chainsaws are made to be run continously at full throttle. The PE250 has 4-5 times the displacement of our chainsaw, trimmer and leaf blowers.......the results could very well be different in our applications.
One thing I did find interesting is this statement from the second article:
"One of the things you should do, is run high octane gas with any two-stroke mix. When all of the two strokes (the old days) were developed, they all used Castrol petroleum oil at a 20:1 ratio and found that 92 octane gas had the octane reduced to 72 with presence of that much oil. Modern oils won’t affect the fuel quite as much, but if you started with 86 or 87 octane regular fuel, you can see where you’ll end with a very low octane mix."
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Good point.
bullittman281
ArboristSite Operative
Ok guys I can't take the amsoil BS any more. I'm sure is a good oil but lets use some common sense here. Just to point out an example my current fuel mix is a synthetic, TC rate, Motul scooter oil mixed heavier than 32:1 Probably a lot heavier. (I'm trying to get rid of it.) Normally I run Bel-Ray in everything. Once I get the carb Dialed for the days conditions and altitude the saw DOES NOT SMOKE!! I used to work for the municipal parks department and I mixed the fuel for the leaf blowers at 8:1 or heavier because we had crap oil and I could. once underway they too DID NOT smoke. The spark plugs did not fowl. The spark arrester survived just fine too. In all likeliness if a a stoke smokes the mixture is too rich, and if it does happen to smoke a bit WHO CARES? Run some oil in there and enjoy top ends that give long service lives.
Lets talk Amsoil economics. Why are we mixing 100:1 or going 25K on an oil change? It certainly isn't for longevity is it? It certainly isn't for power is it? If less oil made more power then 200:1 would be better yet and no oil at all would be king-daddy. It must be because the oil cost too much? Even a low-cost, quality chain saw cost more than 200$. Will you save enough $$$ mixing 100:1 to off set repairs or buying another saw? Probably not. Another example. The engine in my pickup would cost me $6000 or more to R&R. Just for parts and machine work. There is NO WAY I'm gonna run my oil beyond manufacture intervals. Period. Don't be a cheapskate and dump some oil in your fuel. Your piston will thank you.
Bullittman
Lets talk Amsoil economics. Why are we mixing 100:1 or going 25K on an oil change? It certainly isn't for longevity is it? It certainly isn't for power is it? If less oil made more power then 200:1 would be better yet and no oil at all would be king-daddy. It must be because the oil cost too much? Even a low-cost, quality chain saw cost more than 200$. Will you save enough $$$ mixing 100:1 to off set repairs or buying another saw? Probably not. Another example. The engine in my pickup would cost me $6000 or more to R&R. Just for parts and machine work. There is NO WAY I'm gonna run my oil beyond manufacture intervals. Period. Don't be a cheapskate and dump some oil in your fuel. Your piston will thank you.
Bullittman
oneoldbanjo
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thank you for your opinion.......I don't agree with most of it. If you have never used Amsoil Saber......you really have no basis to comment on it. No one....even Amsoil........ has required you to run it at 100:1 and they suggest other mix ratios are fine. I use Amsil Saber and it is a great oil. I started to use it in my trials motorcycle mixed at 100:1 when the other oil I was using at 80:1 was oozing too much unburned oil out the exhaust. I called the national importer of the motorcycle and he is a 5 time national champion and he said they had run Amsoil Saber at mixtures of 125:1 with no problems (Trials bikes are low revving and water cooled). I ran the Saber at 100:1 in my trials bike and it ran much cleaner - and I have Poulan Leaf Blower that I am not that fond of and I started using the 100:1 Saber mix in it just out of curiosity. The leaf blower has been using the 100:1 Saber mix for 2 years now and runs great and I started using this same mix in my Kawasaki and Stihl string trimmers and they are both running great as well. For my chainsaws I am stilll using a 50:1 mix......and will probably continue to do that until I learn something different.
I honestly believe that there is nothing magical about Amsoil Saber - except that I belive it is made with a lot higher concentration of lubricant and less solvent to thin the oil out. The Saber oil is only made for "pre-mix" applications and it is too thick for injector systems. The extra thickness of the oil over the Mobil 2T that I had been using became obvious the first time I poured some out in my measuring cup - it is much heavier than other 2 cycle oils I have used. If Amsoil added solvent and thinned the mixture out and recommended you use it at 50:1 - I am sure it would be far less controversial.
As to the cost of oil - I really don't think anyone here is using Amsoil Saber in order to save money - those of us that use it just really like it and think it is a very good oil at whatever ratio we choose to mix at. (I don't use Amsoil in my cars and won't comment on extended oil change intervals). It is however surprising to me how much cost the oil does add to the cost of "mix" for a 2 cycle. Currently a gallon of premium in this area is $ 2.78 ($0.70 a quart) and a quart of good synthetic oil is about $ 9.00. If you mix 50 quarts of gas ($ 35.00) with a quart of oil ($ 9.00) the cost of mix is $ 44.00 or about $ 0.88 a quart....which is $ 3.52 a gallon! If you mixed at 100:1 the cost would be $ 0.79 a quart of mix...which is really only $ 0.09 a quart savings and is not significant.
Those of us that have used Amsoil Saber don't consider that this is Amsoil BS......Amsoil Saber is not for everyone and you obviously have your own opinion. I will however point out that no one has ever posted anything negative about Amsoil Saber on this site that has ever used it. No one has ever had an engine failure or problem that has ever used the oil - the only negative comments have come from those who have never tried it. Prior to my using the Amsoil Saber in my motorcycle I agreed that running at a 100:1 mix was crazy....and some of my early posts on this site showed my ignorance on this subject. Now that I have used Amsoil Saber I am convinced that it is a quality product and can be used safely at 100:1 for extended periods in some equipment.
I do agree with you that most engine problems on this site (excess smoke, oil fouling, carbon deposits, etc) are probably caused by too rich of fuel/air mixtures more than oil mix issues - and I also believe that most engine seizures are not oil related and are caused by too lean of fuel/air mixtures that are caused by air leaks, leaky fuel lines, old gas, etc. Most modern oils mixed at "normal" ratios will allow an engine to run for a very long time.
Go ahead....buy some Amsoil Saber and try it......you might change your opinion!!!!!
porsche965
Addicted to ArboristSite
:agree2:
bullittman281
ArboristSite Operative
Hey guys. I'm sure Amsoil makes a fine product. I never claimed they didn't. I just think their marketing claims are ludicrous. Why you would want to starve an engine of oil is beyond me. This includes extended oil change intervals. I generally buy my cars after somebody had them on the extended drain plan. I buy cheap cause they need a motor. They probably ran the cheapest oil too but even if an oil stays in grade and the additives don't get all used up there is still gonna be more trash floating around in the oil the longer it is used. Filters cannot catch everything. Like I've said oil is cheap compared to rebuilds. It is your stuff though so have at it.
Bullittman
Bullittman
porsche965
Addicted to ArboristSite
???? Still waiting for an engine to meet Engine Armegedon! 19 years of Mack Trucks with Amsoil, extended oil changes. Racing Porsche engines double the life of oil using Amsoil. Boats, Four Wheelers, Jeeps, Pickup trucks, small inexpensive engines like Stihl and Husky Chainsaw engines, not ONE, NOT ONE engine loss. I better head to Vegas, the luck just keeps on coming with Amsoil!! If I wear an Amsoil shirt I bet I could break the house!! LOL!!
I have put my beliefs to the test with expensive engines, not just $1000 chainsaws and the stuff has worked for me for over 30 years.
I will say that I do take Amsoils recommendation and run a lower ratio of 64:1 instead of 100:1 in my chainsaws. Just more added protection in my opinion. To put this ratio in comparison to Stihl Ultra I suppose it would be like running Ultra 32:1 or so. Just my opinion.
Don't know what else to say about Sythentic Oil but it is better. If it wasn't Stihl would not have finally came out with it.
I have put my beliefs to the test with expensive engines, not just $1000 chainsaws and the stuff has worked for me for over 30 years.
I will say that I do take Amsoils recommendation and run a lower ratio of 64:1 instead of 100:1 in my chainsaws. Just more added protection in my opinion. To put this ratio in comparison to Stihl Ultra I suppose it would be like running Ultra 32:1 or so. Just my opinion.
Don't know what else to say about Sythentic Oil but it is better. If it wasn't Stihl would not have finally came out with it.
