I see angled downward back-cuts once in a while. Usually on a few trees in somebodies yard or along a road. The cut usually starts 8"-10" above the notch and angles down to just behind to create a hinge. I'm not a logger but cut alot of trees and have never saw the need for this cut. Am I missing something?
angle back cut
- Thread starter yooperman
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sawinredneck
Addicted to ArboristSite
No, you are not missing anything, it's a poor tactic, and bad practice!
I tried it once on a co-dom Hedge tree and everything that could go wrong, did go wrong!!
I was worried about barberchair, by the time I got done screwing everything else up, that was the last of my concerns!!!
Make a nice open face cut if you are unsure, then learn to make a nice horizontal back cut and live to be a happy, healthy old age!
I tried it once on a co-dom Hedge tree and everything that could go wrong, did go wrong!!
I was worried about barberchair, by the time I got done screwing everything else up, that was the last of my concerns!!!
Make a nice open face cut if you are unsure, then learn to make a nice horizontal back cut and live to be a happy, healthy old age!
country boy
ArboristSite Operative
I also have seen guys cut that way before and never understood the effectiveness of it either. But like you maybe they new something that i didnt.
gink595
Addicted to ArboristSite
I bet 90% of the trees I see cut around my parts are just as you described, I have never quite grasped the concept of it. From my inexperienced experience. I make three cuts typically, It's safer for me and everyone else around (I made a single cut on a tree and lost controll of it and dropped it on a friend in a skid steer.)
mimilkman1
ArboristSite Guru
This is the second thread I've read today referring to the "barberchair." What exactly does a tree do when it barberchairs?
opcorn:
Kyle
opcorn: Kyle
gink595
Addicted to ArboristSite
This is the second thread I've read today referring to the "barberchair." What exactly does a tree do when it barberchairs?
Kyle
The tree starts falling faster than you can cut, than it splits towards the middle of the trunk and kicks back towards you. kinda leaving a chair looking scenerio. Always used to happen to me on heavy leaning tree. Now I make my facecut and then bore in the center of the trunk and cut opposite direction of the face notch. All the holding wood is gone at that point and allows it not to B-Chair.
sawinredneck
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thanks for the link, Very informative.
treedog54
ArboristSite Member
angled back cut
See the county and home owners use alot .Was told by several of them that I had to ask . THAT WAY IT WONT FALL BACKWARDS. Looking at me like I didn't know anything .Those kind of people why try to explain anything to .Just a waste of my time .I just call them county notches.Kinda like an open face directional felling notch ,ONLY DIFFERENT.
See the county and home owners use alot .Was told by several of them that I had to ask . THAT WAY IT WONT FALL BACKWARDS. Looking at me like I didn't know anything .Those kind of people why try to explain anything to .Just a waste of my time .I just call them county notches.Kinda like an open face directional felling notch ,ONLY DIFFERENT.
windthrown
361 Junkie
Angled back cuts are not good for several reasons. One is that wedges will lever the wood of the stump away from the cut and the stump wood tends to de-laminate or split more than hold. Another is that the log and stump can barberchair, or split out and roll. Another reason not to do it is that you can overcut the hinge, cut through the hinge or miss the hinge entirely. Then what do you do? It is about as bad as a Dutchman's cut in the face. Not good. Too many variables that make felling more uncontrolled.
With a straight backcut that is one to two inches above where the face cuts meet, you get tight wood perpendicular to the wedges that will hold, and you can cut to the proper depth and correct the cut, if needed. Your saw will also be perpendicular to the tree, and is easier to lever into the back cut that way (the saw will actaully want to do that naturally if you are dogged in right). You can also space more hinge on one side or the other for falling a tree more one way or another. Generally, with large diameter trees, they will pop off the hinge, and often times kick back over the stump once they are level with the ground.
I have messed with a lot of angled cuts felling a lot of smaller trees, and generally I do not advocate angled back cuts, except for 4 inch or less diameter trees. I angle the cuts on those becasue it is easy to push them over once you cut them 80% through the trunk with only the one back cut, and the front of the tree acts as the hinge. Anything bigger and I cut a notch in the face and back cut level. Sometimes I cut at an angle if the tree is leaning, and go perpendicular to the tree rather than level to the ground. Supposedly you should go level to the ground, but I dunno. I like wedges and cuts perpendicular to the tree, and not always level to the ground. The saws tend to be better at that angle as well, dogged in an me levering on the handle.
With a straight backcut that is one to two inches above where the face cuts meet, you get tight wood perpendicular to the wedges that will hold, and you can cut to the proper depth and correct the cut, if needed. Your saw will also be perpendicular to the tree, and is easier to lever into the back cut that way (the saw will actaully want to do that naturally if you are dogged in right). You can also space more hinge on one side or the other for falling a tree more one way or another. Generally, with large diameter trees, they will pop off the hinge, and often times kick back over the stump once they are level with the ground.
I have messed with a lot of angled cuts felling a lot of smaller trees, and generally I do not advocate angled back cuts, except for 4 inch or less diameter trees. I angle the cuts on those becasue it is easy to push them over once you cut them 80% through the trunk with only the one back cut, and the front of the tree acts as the hinge. Anything bigger and I cut a notch in the face and back cut level. Sometimes I cut at an angle if the tree is leaning, and go perpendicular to the tree rather than level to the ground. Supposedly you should go level to the ground, but I dunno. I like wedges and cuts perpendicular to the tree, and not always level to the ground. The saws tend to be better at that angle as well, dogged in an me levering on the handle.
This is the second thread I've read today referring to the "barberchair." What exactly does a tree do when it barberchairs?
Kyle
See thread "When a good plan goes..." For a good picture of one and why it happened to me.
Harry K
