Another “this stove vs that stove”

[U&A]

Hi guys,

Iv been a member for a while now but have not contributed for a while either. Browse here and there and that has been it for a while.

I grew up with a smoke dragon wood stove in a big old house. We are getting a stove for our “new to us” house this summer. We have 20 acres of woods full of maple, oak, hickory and some big pine on the outskirts.

The 2 stoves i have narrowed it down to based on my personal preferences are

PE super 27
PE summit

The stove I chose will get a blower but no outside air kit at the moment.

house to be heated:
Mid/southern michigan
Built in the early 70s
Insulation is not bad. Not great
Raised ranch
Entire house is 2,000 square feet

The original house is shotgun style raised ranch and there has been an addition on each end that go perpendicular to the original house.... so its actually shaped like the #1

I originally was focusing on only heating the parts of the house we “live” in durring the day...( kitchen, living, dining, hallway = 1300 sqft) but am wondering if i can get heat down the long hall to the master bed part of the house.

Im just worried of the usual wood stove worries. The small one will not be enough and the big one will run us out of the living/dining room area.

Im not sure it is a good idea to do a small fire in the big stove frequently with the way the new EPA stoves are designed to burn up the wood gas/smoke from a lazy fire. (Am i wrong about being worried about this) But i know the small one will be run like it should. .... Full hot runs.

So main questions:
Would the super27 be enough stove for the full 2,000 sqft?

Will the super 27 be enough stove for everything but the master bed side of the house ( house without master bed side is about 1300sqft)?

Will the summit run us out of the 1300 sqft side?

Will the summit even get heat to the opposite side of the house?

Is it safe to run the summit wide open flue frequently to send more heat out the chimney to knock the heat down a bit in the house when needed?

Side note: master bed side has its own small furnace. So there are 2 furnaces in the house. A new furnace would cover the full house easy peazy.

Thoughts?
I know.... its a lot

 

[MountainHigh]

Hi guys,

Iv been a member for a while now but have not contributed for a while either. Browse here and there and that has been it for a while.

I grew up with a smoke dragon wood stove in a big old house. We are getting a stove for our “new to us” house this summer. We have 20 acres of woods full of maple, oak, hickory and some big pine on the outskirts.

The 2 stoves i have narrowed it down to based on my personal preferences are

PE super 27
PE summit

The stove I chose will get a blower but no outside air kit at the moment.

house to be heated:
Mid/southern michigan
Built in the early 70s
Insulation is not bad. Not great
Raised ranch
Entire house is 2,000 square feet

The original house is shotgun style raised ranch and there has been an addition on each end that go perpendicular to the original house.... so its actually shaped like the #1

I originally was focusing on only heating the parts of the house we “live” in durring the day...( kitchen, living, dining, hallway = 1300 sqft) but am wondering if i can get heat down the long hall to the master bed part of the house.

Im just worried of the usual wood stove worries. The small one will not be enough and the big one will run us out of the living/dining room area.

Im not sure it is a good idea to do a small fire in the big stove frequently with the way the new EPA stoves are designed to burn up the wood gas/smoke from a lazy fire. (Am i wrong about being worried about this) But i know the small one will be run like it should. .... Full hot runs.

So main questions:
Would the super27 be enough stove for the full 2,000 sqft?

Will the super 27 be enough stove for everything but the master bed side of the house ( house without master bed side is about 1300sqft)?

Will the summit run us out of the 1300 sqft side?

Will the summit even get heat to the opposite side of the house?

Is it safe to run the summit wide open flue frequently to send more heat out the chimney to knock the heat down a bit in the house when needed?

Side note: master bed side has its own small furnace. So there are 2 furnaces in the house. A new furnace would cover the full house easy peazy.

Thoughts?
I know.... its a lot

I had same question for my house, and chose Summit, and am glad I did. Would rather have too much heat than too little in a hard winter. My Summit idles down pretty well, even on an oversize tile flue.

That said, your decision might still be different because of the layout of your home. Mine is 1250 sq ft on each of 2 floors - level entry with stove at ground level in centre of home. Convection gets some of the heated air upstairs quite easily. However, in your home, pushing warm air down hallways and around corners without some ducting and fans might be more difficult.

When it gets real cold out you will love the power of the summit burning dry wood. When it's milder, I just keep my loads small and load more often when I don't need the power. If it runs away a bit and get's too hot, you can always crack a window or open a sliding door. No worries about spending money on heating the outdoors Larger firebox of the Summit makes for bigger loads to get through the night better as well. My Summit runs 24/7 all winter and nothing feels better than sitting 12 feet away when it's blizzard conditions out,and frankly, it's never chased me out of the room where the stove is yet, although most of our living space is on the upper floor. Wifey watches her TV downstairs around the corner 15' from the stove nightly and never complains about being too hot! However, if you want to feel the uber heat, you situate yourself looking directly at the front glass - that can get pretty darn hot after a while when the stove is really cranking.

As for how hot to run it,just get one of those pipe thermostats (that magnetize to single wall pipe) and place it about 18"above the stove. You'll soon see where the sweet spot for clean secondary burn is. Do a hot burn once per day and always run dry seasoned wood and your chimney should be fine to clean once per season.

One more thing,you definitely want an outside air source - without it you will eat up the oxygen in the room and get dried out like a prune - living space is not healthy without a fresh air source to feed the combustion chamber as well as feed the lungs of the occupants. Even with a fresh air duct at the back of the stove, we always leave windows cracked an inch for some air flow across both sides of the house on both floors.

Hope this helps.

 

[MountainHigh]

I just spotted your floor plan. How big are your dining room, kitchen and living room, approximately 1000 sq ft? Looks to me like no matter what kind of stove, you will need a way to move some of the heat around into the bedrooms and other end of the house. You might try a large fan in the hall way to draw heated air away from your living area, or I've heard of people drawing heated air into existing duct work via a cold air return then pushing it around using their existing circulating fan.

I'm guessing if you can't move some hot air out of the living area and you're dealing with only about 1000 sq ft living area not including the hall, then the super 27 might be a better fit.

http://pacificenergy.net/products/wood/super/super/

 

[U&A]

^^^

Mountain high,

The living room, kitchen, dining and hallway rooms (minus the master bed addition) is about 1300.

 

[U&A]

In the end my goal is to cut the heating bill down best i can so i dont want to have to run fans 24/7 to get heat to the other side of the house. Not sure the cost of running a box fan or a tower fan all day but i rhink that would be enough to move it down the hall to the other side. Every day i change my mind but im currently thinking super27 with a blower and let the heat stay on the kitchen side of the house. That will help keep the main furnace from running so much.

Then tomorrow ill change my mind.... LOL.

From what im finding a box fan may only cost $20 MAX to run per month 24/7.

 

[anlrolfe]

Do you have a basement? Take the chill off that and the whole house feels warmer.
Best if you have a bilco door to bring wood down otherwise this arrangement $uc#$

 

[U&A]

Sucks?

Please explain.

Floor plan for distributing heat?

Or you just dont like the stove upstairs because you have to clean up a little more? I dont mind that part. Its part of the gig.

 

[Mad Professor]

Hi guys,

Iv been a member for a while now but have not contributed for a while either. Browse here and there and that has been it for a while.

I grew up with a smoke dragon wood stove in a big old house. We are getting a stove for our “new to us” house this summer. We have 20 acres of woods full of maple, oak, hickory and some big pine on the outskirts.

The 2 stoves i have narrowed it down to based on my personal preferences are

PE super 27
PE summit

The stove I chose will get a blower but no outside air kit at the moment.

house to be heated:
Mid/southern michigan
Built in the early 70s
Insulation is not bad. Not great
Raised ranch
Entire house is 2,000 square feet

The original house is shotgun style raised ranch and there has been an addition on each end that go perpendicular to the original house.... so its actually shaped like the #1

I originally was focusing on only heating the parts of the house we “live” in durring the day...( kitchen, living, dining, hallway = 1300 sqft) but am wondering if i can get heat down the long hall to the master bed part of the house.

Im just worried of the usual wood stove worries. The small one will not be enough and the big one will run us out of the living/dining room area.

Im not sure it is a good idea to do a small fire in the big stove frequently with the way the new EPA stoves are designed to burn up the wood gas/smoke from a lazy fire. (Am i wrong about being worried about this) But i know the small one will be run like it should. .... Full hot runs.

So main questions:
Would the super27 be enough stove for the full 2,000 sqft?

Will the super 27 be enough stove for everything but the master bed side of the house ( house without master bed side is about 1300sqft)?

Will the summit run us out of the 1300 sqft side?

Will the summit even get heat to the opposite side of the house?

Is it safe to run the summit wide open flue frequently to send more heat out the chimney to knock the heat down a bit in the house when needed?

Side note: master bed side has its own small furnace. So there are 2 furnaces in the house. A new furnace would cover the full house easy peazy.

Thoughts?
I know.... its a lot

What is "other" heat for the house?

If it's forced air, and the intake/return is near stove you can run the blower on the furnace (without using furnace) to circulate the heat from the stove to far away rooms. When you do this close the outlets in the rooms near the stove. This will also heat the basement and keep your water pipes happy on those sub-zero days.

 

[U&A]

2 Smaller natural gas furnaces

 

[Davej_07]

Have you considered a wood furnace add on? Remember that a wood stove is a “space heater” and the space you are trying to heat may not be feasible.

 

[U&A]

We have a handful of power outages every year. A lot of times it is for a couple 2-4 days. Id prefer a stove that could still heat without having to use a blower.

 

[U&A]

Id like to create a 2nd option for heat vs completely replacing one for another.

 

[U&A]

May not seem like it but i think you guys helped me answer my questions.

Thank you for the input and guidance

 

[blades]

for info 2000 ft ranch bedrooms on one end stove in living room about center in house - 4 bedrooms 3 along outside wall one between living rm wall and another bed room -3 on outside wall always at least 10-15 degress cooler than rest of house with the furtherest one 20-25 cooler hard to make the heat travel down the long hall which is t shaped. fans used to draw cold air down hall and feed to living room. as it was just me it was fine, mix in a wife and children it would not be sufficient. Furnace control in hall closer to livingroom vs far end of home. Cycling the furnace fan does not help as the heat loss through the unheated and nonisulated duct work in the basement ( which was not insulated as well) dispersed said heat in to infinity. avg basement temp all winter apx 50 degrees. location WI.
Wood furnace basement working on a gravity system- as I was growing up- about the same temp dispertion wise upstairs but basement warmer of course again not an insulated basement or duct work just that great big old octopus of a furnace
Ideally a second stove in an alcove in the hall on that bedroom end would make a big differance ( code forbids solid fuel appliances in bedrooms. also solid fuel appliance should be apx 10 ft from cold air return again a code thing.)
just some info from my former place. ( on the other hand never had a ng bill over $50 all winter including all distribution charges)

 

[U&A]

What stove sir ^^

 

[blades]

Englander nc 30 with the bigger blower on it , mixed hardwoods 3 or more years css . temp differental on coldest nights . house sealed up pretty good. attic insulation at max. walls ? some in there but typical for a 1960 build. double hung windows all replaced with energy efficient units doors from the 60's yet. max usage was 4 full cords ( 128 cf ea. ) Sept/ Oct - May. One year was still firing in first 1/2 June. -10 and 30-40mph winds would mostly have to fire the ng unit for a bit just to take chill off. Fill before leaving for work at apx 6 home at apx 6 , ng set for 65. Considering the bills the ng unit didn't fire much when I was gone also the HW , stove and Dryer were ng- Oven was electric.( remmeber I am single)
Will be installing NC30 in current place main floor, 90's build-2200 sf, 6" side walls-ranch, windows bad at present. better layout for heat distribution. pellet stove will be installed basement, this place on LPG - hw and furnace- rest electric, $$$ ouch , currently about $330 /mo heat + elec. Out in the middle of nowhere 50 mi. from the urban area. Wind really rips out here. lot a work ahead of me .

 

[anlrolfe]

Sucks?
Please explain.
Floor plan for distributing heat?
Or you just dont like the stove upstairs because you have to clean up a little more? I dont mind that part. Its part of the gig.

The part about hand carrying wood through your house and into the basement. A bilco door makes this so nice.
I've heard of people sliding wood through a basement window. This sounds good but hand carry is for the birds.

 

[MountainHigh]

2 Smaller natural gas furnaces

If the wood furnace idea using existing duct work doesn't sound good to you, then my thinking is same as yours, run with the right sized free standing convection wood stove for your main living space (which sounds like super 27 size to me), and then use some trial and error to see if anything works to move some heat down your hallway.

The layout of your home means you may always have to use 2 heating sources if you want things toasty warm at both ends of your home but don't want to rely on existing gas furnace duct work and/or a wood burning furnace. As you have no doubt been thinking, at least having a wood stove in your main living space will take a bite out of existing furnace bills, and provide a good backup during power outages.

 

[U&A]

Having a “professional” installer come out for a quote. My insurance company really wants me to have it done by “professionals”. It will be nice to get another opinion on the proper placment and stove.

 

[homemade]

My vote is for a wood furnace in the basement. Duct it to both ends.