another big tree next to house

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ArtB

ArboristSite Guru
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
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Location
renton wa
Lots of D Fir near house, 120 to 160 ft tall (transit measured).
Biggest in rear of photo, a few 3 ft DBH.

How many years before I'd expect one to come down on the house?

Crane 'arborist' came by and offered to take all down for the wood. Would you?

Current Picture
 
Looks like they been there a long time and haven’t spontaneously failed yet.

See if you can get the guy to pay you to allow him to remove them lol.

If that was my home I wouldn’t touch them without good reason.
 
If you are really concerned, find a Tree Risk Qualified Arborist here: https://www.treesaregood.org/findanarborist

Pay for a professional consultation. They will give you a risk rating. They shouldn't tell you to keep or remove the trees (unless there is an extreme hazard).

That doesn't look like a new hose, right? How many trees have fallen on it in the past 40-50 years?
 
If you are really concerned, find a Tree Risk Qualified Arborist here: https://www.treesaregood.org/findanarborist

Pay for a professional consultation. They will give you a risk rating. They shouldn't tell you to keep or remove the trees (unless there is an extreme hazard).

That doesn't look like a new hose, right? How many trees have fallen on it in the past 40-50 years?
True that, but...

Another way of looking at it is as those trees age, doesn't the chance of them failing and causing damage increase?
Like the building in Miami?
 
Sometimes (if you’re lucky) a balance between respecting the trees and nature around your property and minimising the risk of any of them damaging your property can be found.

Have a look at all of the trees and identify any that are clearly leaning towards the house. Any that will naturally fall away from the house can be immediately ignored due to a much reduced risk of them damaging the house. There is obviously no definitive because a powerful storm might come along and push a tree over against its natural lean…but planning for such is a waste of time.

Trees will grow towards the light of a clearing so with a modern build amongst smaller trees you will be facing problems in the future…but in your instance it looks like the property was likely built under mature trees…so when the clearing was created the trees had already established a strong vertical attitude.

From the pictures I would expect to be able to identify a relatively sensible woodland management plan that looks after the house within the woodland without clear felling the whole lot.

Having said that, pictures can be very deceptive so definitely engage a local specialist if you are worried
 
True that, but...

Another way of looking at it is as those trees age, doesn't the chance of them failing and causing damage increase?
Like the building in Miami?
Sure....but Doug fir regularly live 500-1000 years. Just for kicks, let's say those are 250...

(I have NO point of reference to age the trees...but doubting they are pushing the 500 number. That is where local expertise is invaluable.)
 
True that, but...

Another way of looking at it is as those trees age, doesn't the chance of them failing and causing damage increase?
Like the building in Miami?
Sure....but Doug fir regularly live 500-1000 years. Just for kicks, let's say those are 250...

(I have NO point of reference to age the trees...but doubting they are pushing the 500 number. That is where local expertise is invaluable.)

If you are really concerned, find a Tree Risk Qualified Arborist here: https://www.treesaregood.org/findanarborist

Pay for a professional consultation. They will give you a risk rating. They shouldn't tell you to keep or remove the trees (unless there is an extreme hazard).

That doesn't look like a new hose, right? How many trees have fallen on it in the past 40-50 years?
They shouldn't tell you to keep or remove the trees? If they write up a report that assigns a tree "moderate" risk and recommends removal, is that unprofessional? Does it matter that the report is used to get HOA permission to cut the tree down?
 
I am in no way a tree pro. So my comments are just another guy. I have several trees 12 to 18 feet from my house and love the shade. Love the wind break but hate critters getting on the roof and now own two pole saws. If someone offered me a chance to remove those trees for free I would get rid of anything within 40 or 50 feet. I know the trees are way taller than that, but I like the space to get a place to drop tree pieces if needed. Getting a pro opinion at the health of the trees is very smart. They might advise trimming for health or safety reasons as well.
 
In our area many of the douglas fir popped up after the logging in the 1870's and 80's making them about 140 years old. In the Northern California coastal forest the douglas fir tend to drop out of the canopy to make way for redwoods. The faster they grow, the shorter their life span. We have these big trees tip over every year. Are firs a known hazard in your area? I've heard of old growth firs getting close to 1000 years old but I highly doubt any of the ones I'm working with are likely to make it that long.
 
Lots of D Fir near house, 120 to 160 ft tall (transit measured).
Biggest in rear of photo, a few 3 ft DBH.

How many years before I'd expect one to come down on the house?

Crane 'arborist' came by and offered to take all down for the wood. Would you?

Current Picture
Whatever makes you sleep better at night, do it.
It's your house and even if there's a risk management assessment made by someone, what happens when the next storm brings one down? Typical response would be "gee, never saw that before" and you have a tree on your house anyway.

Maybe take out the very big ones and the smaller ones can grow into the new open area.

Do what makes you feel comfortable.
 
I like the cautious approach, when we moved into our current house, we took down 6 poplars. All were leaders towards the house or out buildings/power lines. Now we left the majority of trees standing in the property that could hit the house, a few due to property lines, and some other just because they aren't a real worry. I personally would hedge any back that can fall on the house or drop branches, but by no means would I removed every last tree that could hit the house if it's not looking like it would take an act of God for them to do so.
 
They shouldn't tell you to keep or remove the trees? If they write up a report that assigns a tree "moderate" risk and recommends removal, is that unprofessional? Does it matter that the report is used to get HOA permission to cut the tree down?
Correct. A risk assessor's job isn't to tell you how much risk you are willing to tolerate. Their job is to tell you what level of risk the tree presents. It is, in my opinion, NOT unprofessional to assign a "moderate" risk to a tree. It IS unprofessional to recommend removal. Especially with a "moderate risk" tree. An extreme risk tree...that is a different story. The ISA training teaches that if the arborist encounters a tree that is identified to have an immanent risk of failure and there are targets in striking range, that the area should be flagged with caution tape and the owner/manager be notified immediately. Otherwise, it is explicitly not the assessor's place to make those decisions. Part of the report should present mitigation options (remove, prune, brace, etc...) and the resulting risk rating if each of those is carried out.

"Does it matter that the report is used to get...." As a professional assessor, it doesn't matter what the goal is. What matters is what level of risk the tree presents. It is my job to evaluate the tree and report on my observations. To change the report because of the client's goals is, IMHO, a violation of professional ethics. No different than a doctor saying "well, if the goal is to get you a prescription for opioids, I just need to report that your pain is past a certain threshold" rather than diagnosing the pain and exploring treatment options.

Back to the moderate risk tree. I am not saying such a tree shouldn't be removed. I'm saying it is not the assessor's place to make that decision. It is the duty of the owner/manager of that tree or, perhaps an ordinance or HOA rule specifies certain criteria. Even in that case, it is not the assessor's job to state whether a tree meets those criteria.

Example: I was called of assess a (very) large tree that has dropped some large branches. It was on the neighboring property of my client. My client's goal wasn't to have the tree removed, but they wanted to know what level of risk the tree presented. From there, they would take that information to the city because the city has a policy that allows them to force the removal of "dead, decayed, or otherwise hazardous trees." I told my client I am not a lawyer (he told me he is...), and I didn't participate in the writing of that ordinance, so I don't know what all that is intended to mean. I can find at least some decay in 99.99% of trees over 3" in diameter...is that what they meant? Not my place to say. My place is to assign a level of risk. In this example, the likelihood of failure is "probable" and the likelihood of impacting a target is "high". But the tree is received a "moderate" risk rating. How can that be? Because the "target" is a detached garage. The ISA standard says if the property damage would be "low to moderate" the consequences of failure are "minor". The detached garage is not a house. It is in good shape, but nothing to write home about. Relative to other structures, the cost to repair/replace would be "moderate". BUT, there is still a high likelihood that a neighbor's tree will damage the structure of another. Should the city force mitigation??? That is up to the lawyers, not me.

*What if, instead of the detached garage, there was a rundown empty shed. Should the city enforce that the same?
*If instead of the garage, it was a house, the risk rating would be "high". If the "moderate" tree impacting the detached garage is not actionable by the city ordinance, is this tree that would hit a house?
*If the likelihood of of failure was "Possible" instead of "Probable", and the target is a house (leading to a significant consequence), the tree is now a "moderate" risk tree. Should that be treated the same as the "moderate" risk tree that presented a (more likely) thread to the detached garage???
 
Correct. A risk assessor's job isn't to tell you how much risk you are willing to tolerate. Their job is to tell you what level of risk the tree presents. It is, in my opinion, NOT unprofessional to assign a "moderate" risk to a tree. It IS unprofessional to recommend removal. Especially with a "moderate risk" tree. An extreme risk tree...that is a different story. The ISA training teaches that if the arborist encounters a tree that is identified to have an immanent risk of failure and there are targets in striking range, that the area should be flagged with caution tape and the owner/manager be notified immediately. Otherwise, it is explicitly not the assessor's place to make those decisions. Part of the report should present mitigation options (remove, prune, brace, etc...) and the resulting risk rating if each of those is carried out.

"Does it matter that the report is used to get...." As a professional assessor, it doesn't matter what the goal is. What matters is what level of risk the tree presents. It is my job to evaluate the tree and report on my observations. To change the report because of the client's goals is, IMHO, a violation of professional ethics. No different than a doctor saying "well, if the goal is to get you a prescription for opioids, I just need to report that your pain is past a certain threshold" rather than diagnosing the pain and exploring treatment options.

Back to the moderate risk tree. I am not saying such a tree shouldn't be removed. I'm saying it is not the assessor's place to make that decision. It is the duty of the owner/manager of that tree or, perhaps an ordinance or HOA rule specifies certain criteria. Even in that case, it is not the assessor's job to state whether a tree meets those criteria.

Example: I was called of assess a (very) large tree that has dropped some large branches. It was on the neighboring property of my client. My client's goal wasn't to have the tree removed, but they wanted to know what level of risk the tree presented. From there, they would take that information to the city because the city has a policy that allows them to force the removal of "dead, decayed, or otherwise hazardous trees." I told my client I am not a lawyer (he told me he is...), and I didn't participate in the writing of that ordinance, so I don't know what all that is intended to mean. I can find at least some decay in 99.99% of trees over 3" in diameter...is that what they meant? Not my place to say. My place is to assign a level of risk. In this example, the likelihood of failure is "probable" and the likelihood of impacting a target is "high". But the tree is received a "moderate" risk rating. How can that be? Because the "target" is a detached garage. The ISA standard says if the property damage would be "low to moderate" the consequences of failure are "minor". The detached garage is not a house. It is in good shape, but nothing to write home about. Relative to other structures, the cost to repair/replace would be "moderate". BUT, there is still a high likelihood that a neighbor's tree will damage the structure of another. Should the city force mitigation??? That is up to the lawyers, not me.

*What if, instead of the detached garage, there was a rundown empty shed. Should the city enforce that the same?
*If instead of the garage, it was a house, the risk rating would be "high". If the "moderate" tree impacting the detached garage is not actionable by the city ordinance, is this tree that would hit a house?
*If the likelihood of of failure was "Possible" instead of "Probable", and the target is a house (leading to a significant consequence), the tree is now a "moderate" risk tree. Should that be treated the same as the "moderate" risk tree that presented a (more likely) thread to the detached garage???
Seems a bit confusing, but I can understand how the assessments are given, and why you cannot make a call on weather a tree needs removed or not. So after your report, what would the next step be? Do you go over any mitigation plans, or suggestions on how to ease any major risk factors. (As an arborist, not an assessor)
 
Yes...those are covered on the report. I'm also happy to discuss on the ground what that may look like or even consult with someone else if they are hiring another to do any of the mitigation.
 

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