Another hot DHT 35 ton? Ideas

[blades]

A lot of the box store units have a problem associated with the return line and the tank, in as much as the return line is located too high or is simply dumped back in the axle tank from top either way it allows for a bit of air to get mixed into the oil. On some it is pumped in the side but the flow rate causes turbulence at the top of the oil level again possibly mixing some air with oil. In a worst case scenario an over filled tank will foam out the fill port. A small expansion /fill tank( 1-2 gallon) mounted higher the main tank in some fashion connected to the original fill port solves this. This gives you a completely full main tank as any expansion backs up into the aux tank and it also acts as a bit more area for cooling, eliminates any possibility of air mixing and adds an area for any air from any other source a place to dissipate. Other areas that are friction culprits- hard lines that are less than 1/2" internally, right angle fittings that are restricted to 3/8" or less internally, even straight fittings again restricted internally to 3/8". Haven't seen any box store units running 3/4" so the comments here are based on 1/2" materials. When I rebuilt my splitter I paid particular attention to the friction points and the oil tank system- my unit in original condition would give you a first or possibly a second degree burn if you came in contact with the cylinder. It now will run all day without any extreme heat issues.

 

[mohick]

If anybody worries about 180* on hyd system, you might as well hang it up and quit, or go mind screw something else. that is just high end of medium heat. AS far as gas boiling ? so what gas used to boil in old tractors working hard in the summer worst it ever did was vapor lock them sometimes!! some people worry about the dumbest stuff!!!!!!!!!

 

[blades]

First not that many here are versed in Hydraulics, second this stuff isn't built by JI Case or pick a brand. It is chi-com sourced as such you can figure parts and pieces to be of minimum spec, and that may or may not cause issues down the road. I just had a splitter here in the shop for repair- customer ripped the wedge off the beam- totally built and all parts sourced state side- cold weld no penetration. So I can't completely knock Chi-com stuff, but I can see the short cuts and bean counter caused difficulties in box store built to a price/profit point items. One of these days someone somewhere will sue a mfg because they burned their hand on a hot cylinder and the mfg will lose because it is unguarded and not labeled. I don't write the rules just saying.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

When I first bought my Blockbuster it had no cooler. Was told it'll get hold enough to melt the thermostat that's in the tank and burn the paint... and that was "normal".
I had one of my guys get a pretty bad burn from the conveyor motor. To the point it blistered.
I asked my Dad about it (almost 35 years experience on industrial hydraulic systems) and he said NO, it wasn't ok!
Ended up getting a cooler for it, and all's well.

 

[M.R.]

Gentleman, permit me to expand a bit on post #10 ...pictured is where a half coupler (small circle w/ X).will be welded in to install the gauge......the circle is the gauge diameter...the eyebrow above it will be a shield or hood out of 5"" pipe ...Murphys Law something going to drop or fall on it at some point.
This will tell one when to turn the 3 way full port valve to get the cooler oil from the long side of the tank into service... give or take half the oil capacity (2 gals.) Isn't transfering or dissipating enough heat. & with use time will tell here If the tank capacity may have to be increased.

 

[blades]

IMOP-If the axel is the tank look where your return line is - right at the very top- and then just below it and bit off to one side looks to be the suction line for the pump. So with it set up like that, if the tank isn't completely full ( no air at top of tank ) the incoming oil will splash around some gathering air bubbles maybe not a lot but some which causes a lot of friction and air bubbles compress lowering your splitting force + causing a bit of cavatation in the pump ( more friction). Then with intake for the pump being so close most of it is being recycled very quickly with little time to dissipate heat. I would be very surprised if there were any type of baffle in the tank or a directional barb inside at the return line port. If possible it would be nice to move the return line to the other end of the tank about 1/2 way down the face at least.

 

[struggle]

I was at hydraulic repair place in our bigger town and talked to their guy who has been there forever (owner) his though was adding another tank of just a couple of gallons under the tung and then adding a line return line into the other tank off that one would increase volume and lower temps. He felt that was a better option than adding a cooler to help bring temp down. He said like others have said above 160 isn't very good for anything as it will push into the 180s fast. He didn't suggest it was that alarming ether at 160.


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[Metalmole]

One thing that will add to the temp of any hydraulic set up is having the pressure set too high for what you are doing....I set my pressure around 2200-2500, it stays cooler....as someone said on the posts, heat is one of your systems worst enemy,s...

 

[blades]

last night on the way home stopped at Lowes, DHT 22t splitter there on the floor $1399, Not what I was looking for just noticed it ( needed a primer button). So I looked at the plumbing- up close. Just like the OP,s picture. So I what I posted before goes - return line too high on tank , the unit is picking up air in the oil, as there isn't away to fill the tank full enough to prevent this with out using a small aux tank unless it is piped inside the tank which I doubt. There is room on the fill side to add a bracket and mount a tank connected to the fill neck. This would then become your fill point and expansion area the original tank could then be completely topped off. Likely this would be enough to drop the temp to a more sane operating temperature range. Eliminating air entrapment in the oil which is likely the primary culprit of the excessive heat.
Question to the OP, have you ever had oil foaming out the fill port? or seem to have constant oil film at that area? both are indicative of air entrapment.

 

[M.R.]

My take on the temperature issues w/ my 35T is... that the inlet & outlet are to close together & the same oil is being recycled thru the system .. not having x-ray vision
to know if there is a inside cross flow tube/
pipe to transfer/circulate to the long side of the tank. (which in manufacturing would be a
very minimal added cost...as would welding in a threaded fitting w/plug)
Which a retro fit for longer durations of
run time.... by the addition or option of a 3-way valve that that once reaching operating temps could be turned to achieve a more equal flow thru the axle tank. Make sense?
.
.
Summertime running a 30" bucket on a 580K loading out of the pit ...one could
fry an egg on the cylinders....warm & hotter can be good to the point of cooking
the moisture out of the system...

.............. on edit
The tank measurements > < are 4"W X 6.5 H X 36" L
4.o3 gallons....the inlet & outlet are 4.25"
& 8.75" from one end.

View attachment 536360 View attachment 536361 Gentleman, permit me to expand a bit on post #10 ...pictured is where a half coupler (small circle w/ X).will be welded in to install the gauge......the circle is the gauge diameter...the eyebrow above it will be a shield or hood out of 5"" pipe ...Murphys Law something going to drop or fall on it at some point.
This will tell one when to turn the 3 way full port valve to get the cooler oil from the long side of the tank into service... give or take half the oil capacity (2 gals.) Isn't transfering or dissipating enough heat. & with use time will tell here If the tank capacity may have to be increased.

 

[M.R.]

In the last 2 pictures. ...
By elevating the long axle side is keeping
the top return line submerged, no air entrainment
this way..... Recon one could go far enough to gain
a natural thermal flow, if one had 3 hands to keep
the block in place & starvation of the engine oil likely
be possible.
The benefits to me w/ the additional costs of
the 3 way valve is getting the cycle speed up
quicker.
The drawing with a piece of aluminum pipe or
Slip rolling a sheet then welding stiff backs / fins
on ... the clamping between the ports of the cylinder
this like the electrical heat sinks will transfer heat off / away
from the cylinder... extra tank capacity be a better option.
Thanks blades for such a in depth explanation for the layman.

 

[DHT]

Guys,

Love reading your threads.....thanks for the purchase.

Couple of comments:
1) If you have a cylinder leak please call customer service. We have found that the quality of the hyd fluid used is, by far, the single biggest factor in leaks in the front seal of the cylinder. Or a nick on the cylinder rod.

2) As many of you noted....the return line is at the TOP of the tank. But, you are all wrong as to why. First there IS a tube inside the tank that directs the return fluid to the bottom of the tank, it is long and sweeping. This prevents 'airation' of the fluid. The reason the return is at the top is to keep as many welds, and tank seams above fluid line as possible, thus reducing the likelihood for a pin hole leak. And this keeps the filter base higher off the ground and less likely to be damaged when towed.

3) If there is air in the system it is usually the result of a loose fitting and you will see the bubbles, or milky looking hyd fluid in the clear suction tube from the tank to the cylinder. Hose clamps between the tank and pump are the most usual culprits.

4) These things do get warm but would not worry about cooling as long as you are using quality fluid. We have done tests with very large coolers, and unless there is a good breeze, on a hot day you must have a fan on the cooler. I think we have posted pictures of this set up in the past. You can fill this unit to just about the tippy top because our vent cap is raised up a few inches and the return tube in the tank directs the fluid to the bottom. This certainly helps with cooling.

Cheers....DHT

 

[blades]

Thanks for the internal tank explanation.

 

[deadtrees]

For DHT. If you find that quality fluid is so important, do you have recommended brands? To the consumer, one pail of hydraulic oil looks as good as another. You may not want to get into brand war but how are we supposed to judge quality?

 

[cantoo]

deadtrees, price is usually a good starting indicator for me. I don't ever plan on changing the oil in mine so I bought a good quality oil to start with. I built my own tank and made it a big one. Mine still gets hot but I blame it on hose and fitting restriction more than the oil. I have a 4x36" cylinder so moving a lot of oil and I usually split for long periods of time with no breaks other than refuel or push rounds to the splitter. I think this is the oil I used for my splitter. I use the same stuff in my Kubota and all my attachments like grapples etc. Spirax. It's on sale for a f bucks off once in awhile so I pick up 5 gallons then to have on hand. Not sayin it's the best but it's what I use.
http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/shell-tgh-hydraulic-oil/A-p8337164e

 

[DHT]

For DHT. If you find that quality fluid is so important, do you have recommended brands? To the consumer, one pail of hydraulic oil looks as good as another. You may not want to get into brand war but how are we supposed to judge quality?

Like others have said, cost is generally a decent indicator. We have found the Shell Tellus hyd fluid is a decent balance of quality v. cost. There are some other premium fluids out there which may or may not be better, we don't have a big enough sample size to say either way. The cheapest stuff at your farm store is, literally, the bottom of the barrel.

 

[NSMaple1]

I'm not buying the 'cheap oil' thing. We've run all kinds of hydro things on 'farm store' oil for decades with zero issues.

 

[cantoo]

NSMaple, Lots of old farm stuff didn't run real high pressure or real high temps either though. Now though with lots of skid steers etc running hydraulic everything oil quality is more of a concern. My tractor uses 1 oil for everything so I prefer the better oil for it. The few dollars extra it costs is cheap insurance for my pricy tractor.

 

[Andyshine77]

I'm not buying the 'cheap oil' thing. We've run all kinds of hydro things on 'farm store' oil for decades with zero issues.

While I believe quality oil isn't a bad idea, it shouldn't make a big or even perceivable difference, and most of it comes from a few select blenders anyway. Do you really think these off brands own refineries or blending facilities?

I've ran TractorSupplies all purpose hydraulic fluids for the past 10 years without issue, I changed the fluid this year "the first time in 10" and it was honestly a total waste of money, the old fluid looked new. If you have issues it's likely poor quality components or bad design, it's not the fluid.

 

[NSMaple1]

Plus - how many people change the hydro oil in their splitter? And when? If its 'cheap oil' related, then that's on the oil they put in it at the factory. Or, a certain oil should be spec'd in the manual. Not just type, but brand. And an ordinary wood splitter shouldn't be stressing oil like other hydro gear does.