Another Tree ID

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Dogsout

Can't Fix Stupid!!
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
590
Reaction score
412
Location
Iowa
I appreciated all the help with the last tree ID that I posted on here and hope someone can nail this one for me. My first year cutting wood to burn so my ID skills leave a lot to be desired. The live ones with leaves I think I do OK, but take the leaves off and I am pretty much clueless. It is standing by two ash trees but I don't think it is ash. My best guess is elm, maybe? One other quick question, this was a live tree last summer and it some how had a complete winter kill and did not put a leaf on it this year. If it has been standing dead all summer and I could get it processed within the month any chance it could be burned yet this winter? ( I have a OWB)View attachment 192712View attachment 192714
Still looking for my first STANDING tree to cut down and I hope this is a good one seeings how it is 3 blocks from my house.
 
Yeah, looks like an elm to me also.

Probably not a winter kill, more likely a typical Dutch Elm Disease kill... green one year, dead the next. Usually the year before death the tree will be a bit light on leaves and/or half of it will be dead. Looks like the right fork of the tree has been dead for a couple years 'cause the bark has started to fall off in places. You'll probably find that the main trunk is a good bit wet, but once split it will dry fast. It isn't a red elm, wrong bark and structure... probably an American Elm, possibly one of the imports.

You're gonna' need a hydraulic splitter and then a hand ax to separate the splits... a maul will just bounce off that stuff.
 
Hope you have a hydraulic splitter..or about 9x's the weight of that tree in effort,sweat, and time. Might be close to home but that's gonna be the easy part of the battle!
 
OK so elm it is thanks to all that responded. Haven't found anything that my 35 ton Speeco couldn't power its way through, so I think I am good on the splitting aspect of this. Good firewood correct? Would everyone agree with WHWS that if cut and split in the near future that it could be burnt yet this year? Keep in mind that most of the logs will only be quartered for my OWB. It makes a difference where I stack it if and when I bring it home.
 
Last edited:
I guess that depends on what you consider, or how you rank, "good" firewood. The "white" elms aren't on the top of the list as far as firewood goes, with American Elm being just a bit better than Siberian Elm. But, standing-dead and close to home I'd take it in a heartbeat, it is better firewood than any native Iowa pine or fur and a damn sight better than Box Elder, Poplar or Cottonwood, etc...

I burn a lot of standing-dead elm; "white" elms during the warmer times, saving the Red Elm for the really cold nights... I'd say that standing-dead "white" elm made up 80% of what I burned last winter, and it went straight from being felled to the wood stove, with no seasoning time... but most of that had been dead for some number of years. I did fell one in October that had only been dead one year (it was in the yard) and only gave it about 2-weeks seasoning time... wasn't quite enough time, the splits from the main trunk were still a bit wet.

What you'll probably find is that everything above 15-25 feet is bone dry and ready to burn now... gravity has pulled most of the moisture out. But starting around 15-25 feet you'll start finding damp wood, getting progressively wetter as you get closer to the ground... it's the sponge effect of the dead wood pulling moisture from the ground, but only as high as gravity allows. The good thing is that "dead" wood will give up its moisture much, much faster than "green" wood; get it split this month (the sooner the better of course) and stack it where it'll get lots of air and some sun if you can and it will be just fine come October... maybe [shrug] allow some of the lower trunk (wetter) pieces a bit more time, use for late October-November burning. Remember, here in Iowa we usually have good seasoning weather until Thanksgiving, sometimes as late as Christmas... southern Iowa later than that, maybe all year.
 
Not awesome wood, but dries fast once split, and does burn hot when dry. The BTU rating is a tad better than soft Maple, but not as good as Red elm or Hackberry. 35 ton will work well, but will still have stubborn fibers. Worth cutting... Enjoy...:cheers:
 
Spider, Hedge thanks for the replies. A couple of questions. Even dead will it still be a bear to split? I guess my next wood investment should be a hatchet correct? Great information because I am sure that I would have raised my blood pressure to an unsafe level had I not been for warned what to expect. It is great to use the boards experience then to have to experience a lot of this for yourself. (If that makes any sense.)
 
Spider, Hedge thanks for the replies. A couple of questions. Even dead will it still be a bear to split? I guess my next wood investment should be a hatchet correct? Great information because I am sure that I would have raised my blood pressure to an unsafe level had I not been for warned what to expect. It is great to use the boards experience then to have to experience a lot of this for yourself. (If that makes any sense.)

Might be handy to have, and dead is a little better than green, but your splitter will handle it... Go get that tree!!!
 
Agree--Elm

After you cut it down and buck it to lengths, stack it, and and let it dry for six months or so. Then split it when the bark starts to fall off. Otherwise, it will be stringy, handg together, and drive you nuts.

Good firewood when dry and burns without sparks. You have to wait on it.
 
Be Patient...

Hmmmmmmm.......
Never had elm spark when burning, wet or dry.
And "white" elm is stringy, wet or dry... the only thing I've found to reduce the stringiness when splitting is to do it when the rounds are frozen solid... like around 0-degrees or below.
Just let elm dry, WS. I split a cord of it this morning. Bark fell off while doing it. Very little stringiness. Tough, yes, but it split beautifully. Dry as a bone and 85 degrees F in the sun.

Elm just takes patience. I bucked and stacked these rounds late last fall. Finally ready to split. They will now dry for late September's first burn. :msp_biggrin:
 
Just let elm dry, WS. I split a cord of it this morning. Bark fell off while doing it. Very little stringiness. Tough, yes, but it split beautifully. Dry as a bone and 85 degrees F in the sun.

Elm just takes patience. I bucked and stacked these rounds late last fall. Finally ready to split. They will now dry for late September's first burn. :msp_biggrin:

You got more patience than I got Doc... I'm a dry wood fanatic... I can't let anything sit in rounds... I just gotta open it up and see what's inside... I even split 6" and 8" rounds once... Bark is my enemy!!!
:amazed:
 
Are the siberian Elms a native tree? Or were they brought here? And what are the noticeable differences from what we commonly call American Elm?
 
Siberian Elm...

Are the siberian Elms a native tree? Or were they brought here? And what are the noticeable differences from what we commonly call American Elm?
Read carefully:

"Invasion of the world’s worst tree
—SUSANA VINCENT
If you’ve noticed some sprightly, leafy saplings thrusting skyward at an astonishing rate around your property since last summer’s copious rains and abundant winter snow: Beware. If you’re even thinking about watering them in anticipation of nice shade trees like you had back home: Beware. Beware if you have a septic tank or a wall or a roof or a vehicle; beware if your allergies are worsening each year; beware if you enjoy long views; beware if you’re concerned about wildfire.

The army of trees clogging the arroyos around the Village of Placitas and marching unimpeded along the highway is an official nuisance tree called the Siberian Elm. For those who remember the bosque fire of 2003 which burned nearly four hundred acres straddling the Rio Grande, the Siberian Elm is part of the deadly triumvirate of alien trees that fueled those flames. According to the USDA, “The spread of salt cedar (Tamarix ramosissima), Russian olive (Elaeagnus angustifolia), and Siberian elm (Ulmus pumila) has contributed to the continued degradation of riparian ecosystems. These exotic species are highly invasive and will continue to spread, not only along riparian habitats, but also into abandoned croplands and other sites. All of these species strongly modify their environment by displacing native plant species, using great amounts of ground water, increasing the risk of fire, blocking stream channels, etc. They also reduce the abundance and diversity of wildlife species.”

From the Rio Grande to the Upper Sonoran/Piñon-Juniper Zone of the Sandias, the Siberian Elm is pursuing its invasion on a frightening scale, sucking up water, inviting wildfires, crowding out native plants and wildlife forage, and destroying property. It hosts the stinky Elm Leaf Beetle, which likes to overwinter in houses. It makes stinky firewood. Even its shade is unpleasant, dropping gloppy stuff on the heads or hoods of those beneath. (I can’t tell you what the gloppy stuff is, but any lifelong Albuquerque resident will attest to its existence.) My own car has been glopped, my septic tank invaded, my wall broken; the beetles have shared my bed. I have nightmares about a juniper down the road, encircled by elms, getting its life sucked out like a fly’s by a spider. So pay attention.

The Siberian Elm, not to be confused with its smaller, benign cousin, the Chinese Elm (Ulmus parvifolia) survives both extreme drought and extreme cold. It’s so tough that if you cut it down it sprouts from the roots like heads on the monstrous Hydra of Greek myth, and even small seedlings cut your hands when you try to pull them. It is a greedy, thirsty tree, its roots working their way into septic tanks and wells, and it easily overwhelms native and garden plants. Its branches are brittle and easily broken by wind and winter storms, endangering buildings, cars and humans. The deadfall is highly flammable.

What’s more, the Siberian Elm reproduces prodigiously. Its seed pods, white and coin-like, are borne by wind and tires and feet and are capable of sprouting between patio bricks and chinks in foundations; they are a nuisance in themselves, clogging drains and forming dunes against doors and windows. This year they’ve sprouted in dense colonies, especially on disturbed ground near roadways and construction sites, but individuals sprout wherever the wind blows. The seedlings are sneaks, tending to hide within other plants and grow undetected for a month or two until they’re five feet tall and practically indestructible.

Elms are both male and female; unlike the one-seeded juniper, they all produce pollen. While many locals blame junipers for their allergies, the Siberian Elm is the greater culprit; nearly everyone is allergic to the pollen.

There’s no easy way to get rid of these trees; rumor has it that they can survive a nuclear blast. You can carefully burn the seeds. You have to poison rampant seedlings. If you cut down a large tree (that is, before it falls—the species is notoriously short-lived) you must drill holes in the stump, fill them with appropriate chemicals and monitor them vigilantly. The most effective ways to, uh, neutralize a Siberian Elm are girdling—removing a section of bark in a complete circle around the trunk; and frilling—axing downward, making shallow cuts to just below the bark, and applying a chemical labeled “frill application.” Frilling takes advantage of the tree’s circulatory system (phloem) to send the chemical to the roots. You’ll still have to cut the tree down before it falls on someone, but at least you won’t have to worry about regrowth.

Resistant to Dutch Elm Disease which de-treed Main Streets all over America, the Siberian Elm was imported from, yep, Siberia, as a replacement. It was brought to Albuquerque in the 1860s by Mayor Clyde Tingley to create an “oasis in the high desert.” A hundred years later, the tree had earned the nickname “Tingley’s Folly,” the seed pods “Tingley’s Snow.” Now the tree is a serious federal, state, county and community problem, and control measures are urgently needed. It’s been illegal to plant Siberian Elms in Albuquerque since the city’s pollen ordinance of 1996. Tijeras has organized battalions of volunteers to fight the invasion. New Mexico is addressing the infestations on federal, tribal and state holdings. You can contact local agricultural extension services, the state and the USDA for information. A petition to the County Commission to designate our area “a noxious weed control district” is the logical first step in getting assistance.

The Siberian Elm is dangerous around structures, especially schools and roads; it is hazardous to respiratory health and water systems; it tempts wildfires, hosts nuisance insects, and alters entire life zones. It’s designated a noxious weed and exotic invader in at least twenty-five states and continues to spread aggressively. It’s described by horticultural writer Dr. Michael Dirr as “one of, if not the, world’s worst trees.” So, once again—beware. If you allow it to grow on your property, you’d better buy more homeowners’ insurance."

If you find it, cut it, burnt it, and thus get rid of it.
 
I appreciated all the help with the last tree ID that I posted on here and hope someone can nail this one for me. My first year cutting wood to burn so my ID skills leave a lot to be desired. The live ones with leaves I think I do OK, but take the leaves off and I am pretty much clueless. It is standing by two ash trees but I don't think it is ash. My best guess is elm, maybe? One other quick question, this was a live tree last summer and it some how had a complete winter kill and did not put a leaf on it this year. If it has been standing dead all summer and I could get it processed within the month any chance it could be burned yet this winter? ( I have a OWB)View attachment 192712View attachment 192714
Still looking for my first STANDING tree to cut down and I hope this is a good one seeings how it is 3 blocks from my house.

YOUshould make your avatar bigger!
 
They are imported, I don't think they are as bad as what Wood Doctor's post makes them out to be. Although they do pop up readily in disturbed fields. I built a house last summer, and have had quite a few pop up in my new yard (along with a bunch of cottonwoods) this spring and summer. I just mow them over. I am letting one go just for curiosities sake. It has grown to about 3ft over the summer so far. Round-Up will kill them when they are small too. These are the trees that get topped around here and then grow back just as full as they were before you top them although their branches are much weaker than they were before. So it isn't suggested to top them unless there is no other alternative. They aren't the best of trees, but I burn them a lot so I don't think they are as bad as what some people make them out to be. Just my opinion though.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top