Any tall fast growing trees for clay soil?

[tracyballard]

I live in Amarillo, with compacted clay soil and need tree advice. temps here almost never get below about 10 or so, but the wind blows a lot - the high winds killed a 5 gallon shumardi oak I planted this year.

I'm looking for a tall fast growing tree that will do well around here, or at least grow reasonably well if not fast. I prefer oak, but the local tree guy I talked to said young oaks only grow about 4 inches a year around here - he recommends planting nothing smaller than 10 gallon. I want a huge specimen tree for the front yard and some others to line the strip between curb and sidewalk. any ideas would be great - here's what I'm looking at so far:

Specimen tree - front yard about 25 feet from driveway and house:

maybe a European Beech? - I like the big tall look, but with the shallow roots will it blow over on my house in high winds??

or maybe another Shumard Oak or Bur Oak? what size to plant?

maybe a Eucalyptus Reglans - is that a good idea, or even legal?


for side trees:

I've looked at various oaks - Bur, Red, Scarlet, Black, Pin, Post, Sawtooth Gobbler, Texas Red - pretty confusing. I've haven't had much luck yet except with one Pin oak I got at lowes in a 1 gallon pot for $9.99, it survived the windstorm that killed the shumard. what else?


I don't really like elms, evergreens, bradford pears, fruitless mulberrys, willows, or trees with weak branches. I prefer deep rooted trees but can live with some shallow roots if the tree has other good attributes. I've got a green apple tree and a chinese popcorn tree that are growing fine, but I don't want more of those. thanks for any help.

 

[mini14]

bradford,cleveland pears, sweetgums, redbuds, willows, love pour drainage...just take a look along side a lake u will c what like the water.beeches are beautiful huge trees but u wont c them that big in your lifetime, they are very slow growing.

 

[Backwood]

I am in no kind of way an expert but I do have plenty clay. I have a couple willow oaks in my yard that I am very happy with.
Tree #1 was a small sapling when I built my house 12 years ago and its a very nice full tree now thats 20-25' tall.
Tree # 2 was about 20' tall and now has at least doubled to over 40' tall, was 4 or 5" in diameter when I built my house but a couple more years and I wont be able to reach around it..
I have a white oak also and it has growed at a much slower rate.
Sunshine must be a big help though, was just noticing today that the willow oak trees in the edge of the woods that dont get much sun dont seem to have growed but a couple feet at the most in 12 years.

 

[motoroilmccall]

Like Locust?

 

[computeruser]

My soil (albeit here in MI) is very clayey, and when it dries out during the summer months, it is like an adobe brick. The city planted one of those hybrid Silver Maple/Red Maple varieties between the sidewalk and the street, and it seems to be growing very well in my soil and without any visible roots on the surface, so I presume that it is working its way through the soil at a reasonable depth, as it should.

When we moved in 3 years ago, it was a 4" diameter tree and about 15' tall. It has added a good 3" of diameter and 10-12' in height since that time. I know that everybody %&*#!es about anything related to silver maples, but this tree has really impressed me with its growth, structure/shape, and fall coloration.

 

[S Mc]

You don't describe your style of house and landscaping and this will make a difference in what you want to plant. You also don't mention what the pH is which will also be a determinant.

As an above poster suggested: Locust - Specifically Black locust, Robinia pseudoacacia, fast growing, beautiful bark, wind tolerant and site adaptable. Flowers profusely.

Honeylocust, Gleditsia triacanthos, More subtle than the Black locust but a lovely, open, airy appearance. We have high winds here and ours deal with it very well.

Bald cypress, Taxodium distichum, exceptionally wind firm (according to Dirr). He mentions that they have even survived hurricane force winds.

So it actually would be helpful to know what you look you are trying to achieve. As there are other hardy trees, but may have more of an unkempt appearance (especially initially) than you might find acceptable for a specimen tree in your front yard. Such as the Hackberry, Celtis occidentalis.

For your boulevard trees. How wide/long is the area you will be planting. I urge you to do your research here as it is so very sad to see a tree planted in too small of a space. You might consider English hawthorne, Craetegus laevigata, or Green hawthorne, (one of my favorite as it is different than some of the other hawthornes...super beautiful bark), Craetegus viridis.

You could consider crepe myrtles although they might require more pruning to keep them site tolerant re wind.

Check your area for Oak Wilt. This is a virulent pathogen that attacks, primarily, oaks in the red/black group. So you might want to avoid the highly susceptible species.

Sylvia

 

[tracyballard]

this will be on a 9000 sq ft residential lot, mostly right now I'm looking for some trees to go between the sidewalk and street, and one big specimen for the middle of the front lawn. I like big trees with tall straight trunks and foliage up top. I haven't tested my soil yet, but it is probably a bit on the alkaline side, that's normal around here. Although I have a lot of clay, or caliche, in the soil, it also drains well and there are a lot of rocks mixed with sandy soil on my lot from previous construction by the last owner.

I like the way the locust looks, but don't they have a lot of those big bean pods?

 

[tracyballard]

I'm on the corner, so I need trees for 2 strips between sidewalk and street. the dude across from me has a bradford pear plantation going in his side strip, so I want something a lot better to enhance my view of those crap trees. I have one apple tree growing in this space now, it's about 10 inches diameter a foot off the ground and about 20 feet tall, seems to be doing well. the strips are 4 feet wide by 90 feet for one and about 75 feet for the other.

 

[JeffL]

I dont know about TX, but here in MA the Black Locust has officially made its way onto the state invasive species list. :greenchainsaw:

 

[S Mc]

The Black Locust doesn't have as big of a seed pod (2-4") as say the honeylocust (7-8"). And this is a good time to remind you that you should put in a mulch ring around the tree which will not only benefit the tree but keep maintenance down.

I looked up invasive species in Texas and it doesn't appear that the Bl. locust is on the list. This was a good point from the previous poster to double check.

http://threatsummary.forestthreats.org/browse.cfm?stateSearch=TX#1

Speaking of long fruit capsules...The catalpas can also be a dramatic tree. Both the Northern and Southern are zoned for up to 9. The Southern Catalpa, Catalpa bignonioides, is a bit smaller, which might translate to better wind tolerance.

I would NOT plant a birch (especially a European) in a windy situation. And in fact, I believe you are out of their acceptable zone (too warm) with the possible exception of the River Birch, Betula nigra. Birches are incredibly fussy and the least condition that doesn't suit their perception of an ideal climate tends to put them in a snit.

Sylvia

 

[KsWoodsMan]

I like the way the locust looks, but don't they have a lot of those big bean pods?

They have a smaller pod than the Honey locust at least from my experience.

What is a "alot" ? I cant think of many trees that don't shed some kind of fruit or seed.

Mullberry has good height, form and color in my opinion, They grow fairly quickly and give good shade.

Osage Orange or Hedge makes for a different look. It grows much faster than Oak. Prune it for heigth then let the canopy spread. For a street tree I'd suggest the Wichita or White Shield variety. They are male and don't produce fruit.

 

[S Mc]

I must confess I am a big Bur Oak fan so if you don't mind a medium rate growing tree, this can be a really nice specimen. They are in the white oak family so would be Oak Wilt resistant.

My apologies on earlier misreading your note on European Beech (not birch). European beech probably might not like your heat. They are only zoned for 4 to 7 and I believe Amarillo is a Zone 8 (?). Otherwise, I think they are magnificent! However, they are slow to medium growing with a note in Dirr's book of even slower growing in the South.

A caution on the street trees. You say you live on a corner. Many cities have restrictions on the clear view triangle. Contact your public works dept to see what this restriction (if any) may be. Even if they don't have a written ordinance, do take into consideration what traffic may be coming around the corner that a tree might obscure.

Back to lawn trees, the white mulberry is fast growing and adaptable. Dirr mentions that it is widely used in Texas. Can get 30 - 50' tall and wide.

And there is the American sweetgum, Liquidambar styraciflua. Stunning fall color and interesting leaf shape. The fruit is really cool (mace-like) but this may be a hindrance from a maintenance stand point. Also, depending on the size of your planting area, this tree may not allow you enough lawn area for your preference.

Sylvia

 

[tracyballard]

I must confess I am a big Bur Oak fan so if you don't mind a medium rate growing tree, this can be a really nice specimen. They are in the white oak family so would be Oak Wilt resistant.

My apologies on earlier misreading your note on European Beech (not birch). European beech probably might not like your heat. They are only zoned for 4 to 7 and I believe Amarillo is a Zone 8 (?). Otherwise, I think they are magnificent! However, they are slow to medium growing with a note in Dirr's book of even slower growing in the South.

A caution on the street trees. You say you live on a corner. Many cities have restrictions on the clear view triangle. Contact your public works dept to see what this restriction (if any) may be. Even if they don't have a written ordinance, do take into consideration what traffic may be coming around the corner that a tree might obscure.



And there is the American sweetgum, Liquidambar styraciflua. Stunning fall color and interesting leaf shape. The fruit is really cool (mace-like) but this may be a hindrance from a maintenance stand point. Also, depending on the size of your planting area, this tree may not allow you enough lawn area for your preference.

Sylvia

Amarillo is classically a 6b but really is more like 7a or even 7b. I did read that Dirr says the American Beech is much better for my climate than the European beech. I may try an American beech in the shady north side of the house - do you think 4 feet from the house is too close? will it grow in full shade til it's 15 feet or so?

I am really thinking Bur oaks may be the way to go in front, I like that they have a deep taproot, but I'll probably have to plant bigger ones to get them off to a good start around here, at least accoring to the local tree docs.

I think Locust is out - bad breakage in high winds.

other than oak - maybe a Dawn Redwood, maybe a Pecan, I would try a Black walnut but I also like blackberries. I'm really looking for a tree that looks like a shoot of brocoli - tall and straight with foliage well off the ground, or that can at least be pruned that way.

Also - American Hornbeam - that also looks like a good tree for the north side which is pretty much full shade - how tall does that get? can it grow up above the roof to get some sun?

 

[S Mc]

- do you think 4 feet from the house is too close?

Yes, unequivocably, yes. Absolutely. Yes. 4 Ft is too close to your house for anything except a shrub. And a small to medium shrub.

An American Beech will get 50 to 70' Tall and as wide. Also they like full sun. They also can sucker and form wide-ranging colonies.

Most of the trees you are naming prefer deep, moist, rich soils so check to see if you can offer that in your landscape. If you have access to Dirr's book, that is super. Be sure to read ALL of his information, not just the hardiness zone as there will be subtleties that he relays. For instance, he doesn't recommend the pecan in a home landscape due to disease and insect issues. So possibly ask your local nursery how prevalent some of those issues are.

The American hornbeam is an understory tree so should not mind the shade. It is a smaller tree, 20 - 30' T.

There are actually an almost unlimited amount of choices for your zone, which is not too hot and not too cold. Your initial description sounded much harsher, though. Wind is certainly an element to seriously consider. And when people mention clay, I have a tendency to question drainage, so my suggestions have been narrowed considerably.

A good bet is to drive around and see what is working well in areas such as yours. Then go to your local nursery and see what is available. Of course, they may steer you towards what sells for them and I like to think outside the box and don't mean to suggest you not try something different. But it may help to get you started. You could also ask them about some of the trees you are considering. Ask if anyone they know has one planted, drive by and take a look to see how it is doing and if you like the way it appears.

Sylvia

 

[tracyballard]

I may try to get Dirr's book, I've checked his website but I would rather read a book. I did manage to pick up a tree book on ebay for $1 plus $4 shipping, it's called Manual of the Trees of North America (Exclusive of Mexico), Vol. 1, by Charles Sargent (I wonder what that covers, A thru M?).

most of the trees you see around here are not that interesting, either elms, conifers, or big huge trees that I think are fruitless mulberrys. Most of the nice oaks you see are at rich peoples houses, cemeteries or apartments - places that can afford pro's to take care of their trees, and probably planted big trees to start with.

So far it looks like I'm going to try some Bur oaks of 10 gallon size or bigger, maybe another Shumard, and maybe a Dawn Redwood or some other odd choice.

do you think the American Beech would be unwise for the main front yard tree? It would be about 25 feet from the house, 20 from the driveway. would it grow very fast if I keep it watered, say, a foot or so a year?

 

[S Mc]

A general rule of thumb on rating the growth of trees is: under 1 ft - slow, 1 to 2 ft - medium, and over 2 ft - fast. So if you are satisfied with at least 1 ft. then this opens up a lot of selections.

Whatever choice you make, water appropriate to ITS needs. Overwatering can damage the tree just as under watering can. Also, when you choose your specimen, pick a reasonable sized tree. A tree will take approximately 1 year per caliper inch (the diameter of its trunk) to settle in. You may see little actual change until the tree has reestablished itself in its new site. So in reality planting a smaller tree may yield a larger tree quickly. Example: a 1inch tree will settle in in one year and start putting on diameter growth. A 4" tree will take four years to settle in prior to putting on significant diameter growth. So at the end of 5 years your 1" tree may well have caught up and exceeded the growth of the 4" tree. And, the 1" tree would have been cheaper to purchase with a higher chance of survival.

I applaud your thinking outside the box and wanting to go with something more unusual or dramatic. Too many times we see the "same old, same old" with no imagination. There are an innumerable amount of choices out there. We just have to look.

If I had a place to put a Dawn Redwood, I would plant one in a minute. Just conceivably one of the coolest trees I have seen. And its history is astonishing. Fossil remains document its worldwide distribution back about 100 mil years, thought to be extinct, only to be found in the mid 1940s and redistributed worldwide. At one time (15 mil years ago or so) native to North America. How incredible is that.

How is the drainage in your landscape? You mentioned you had clay, but have you taken a soil profile or nutrient count?

Trees don't have to cost a lot to take care of, they just take a little fore thought. Choosing the appropriate tree for your site and situation will go a long way to minimizing those costs. There are some trees that are magnificent that require very little maintenance.

For example a Ginkgo biloba. Cool tree, zero maintenance, virtually pest free.

Sylvia

 

[JeffL]

For example a Ginkgo biloba. Cool tree, zero maintenance, virtually pest free.

Sylvia

Just dont end up with a female, I've heard rather rotten stories of the smell of their fruit.

 

[stihl sawing]

I have all red clay here and have several different kind of oaks. They all grow well. The water or willow oak grows fast. The only problem with it is raking leaves. They are skinny and hard to rake the blower even has trouble with them. They also don't burn as well cause they are packed tight in a pile when you rake them.

 

[pdqdl]

Female gingko trees produce huge piles of awful smelling fruit. Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be a problem until the trees get rather large. When falling on the ground, the fruit ruins all happiness downwind with the redolent odor of dog feces/human vomit/rancid butter. The active agent of the foul odor is a simple organic chemical found in all the foul odors mentioned above: butyric acid.

VERY oddly, my biggest customer has a stand of about 30 fully mature trees. Last year, someone was neatly raking up and HARVESTING these nasty little stink bombs. It turns out that the nuts are edible, and highly prized in some circles. maybe I will try them out this year.

Great story with more details: http://www.unh.edu/neeg/ginkgo.html

 

[ATS/TexasTree]

Tracy

Getting advice from all over the country - much of it good but you should go
to the source in your area for advice.

Call Brian Scott at the Amarillo Texas Forest Service and listen to his suggestions. He's a great resource.