Any tips for doing large estimates

[britishArborist]

Hi all,

I've got to do a large estimate, about 30 trees down and damaged over about 4 1/2 acres. I'm used to doing estimates on individual trees, i'm wondering if there are any tips for doing larger estimates. Do you keep track of what tree needs doing what where? do you number them? or do you just look at most and multiply them?

I don't need to take into account removing the debri just cut and stack the brush, cord length logs.

Thanks for any ideas,

Karl

 

[rfwoodvt]

I could use some tips on bidding such jobs too. Seems when I have to bid more than 7 trees on a given estimate I'm always losing the bid. I try to list each tree when appropriate but the number just end up skyrocketing.

And its not like I'm losing out to lot-clearing outfits, loggers or hacks. I'm generally losing out to the two higher profile outfits in town.

ThanX for any input!

 

[Menchhofer]

I believe you answered your own question. Simply price each individual tree and add it up.

 

[TreeJunkie]

Look at the project as a whole and decide how long it's gonna take. Add up the hours and multiply by your hourly rate.

Prett simple really. Works pretty well on jobs 5-10k in size.

 

[pistol pete]

bid the man

I agree with (time X hourly rate), however when bidding large jobs I always take into account the fact that I will have guaranteed work for three or four days. Having one job pay 10,000 rather that 10 that pay 1,000 is better in so many ways (bidding 10 jobs, fuel, drive time, getting lost time, and general down time). So if the job is worth 10,000 when I estimate it I feel it is still profitable at 8,000 due to the time I will save if I get it. When I set out to bid jobs of this size I bid the man instead of the tree. Usually you can feel out a prospective client by asking questions regarding things such as thoroughness. If he wants to do the minimum shoot low If he wants the works shoot him 12,000, you can always come down to 8,000 by removing items or being less than thorough.

 

[Stumper]

For coming up with an actual figure I usually walk the job with a notepad and make marks for each hundred $-1,2,3 slashes for this tree, one mark for those 2 little ones etc. At the end of it all I just total my marks and multiply. If something needs special treatment I'll make notes about it but if there are 35 trees to prune for clearance where needed, deadwood, and minor shaping then I lump them and give a simple prescription and total. -And missing bids on large bids...... is normal. these are the jobs that almost always solicit multiple bids-Surely you didn't want to be cheapest did you? I hate bidding the big ones 'cause i seldom get them-I'm usually in the midle price wise and Harry the Hacker lowballs everyone. I got one a year ago where I was actually the middle bid but the client doesn't play games- The lowballer didn't bid it on time and the highbidder came back and offered to beat mine-The customer -bless his soul-said " I don't believe in playing those games-I wanted your real price to begin with." That gentleman has become a good customer-I've worked for him at his house, done stumpgrinding on a commercial property and worked for his son-in -law.

 

[pbtree]

For coming up with an actual figure I usually walk the job with a notepad and make marks for each hundred $-1,2,3 slashes for this tree, one mark for those 2 little ones etc. At the end of it all I just total my marks and multiply. If something needs special treatment I'll make notes about it but if there are 35 trees to prune for clearance where needed, deadwood, and minor shaping then I lump them and give a simple prescription and total. -And missing bids on large bids...... is normal. these are the jobs that almost always solicit multiple bids-Surely you didn't want to be cheapest did you? I hate bidding the big ones 'cause i seldom get them-I'm usually in the midle price wise and Harry the Hacker lowballs everyone. I got one a year ago where I was actually the middle bid but the client doesn't play games- The lowballer didn't bid it on time and the highbidder came back and offered to beat mine-The customer -bless his soul-said " I don't believe in playing those games-I wanted your real price to begin with." That gentleman has become a good customer-I've worked for him at his house, done stumpgrinding on a commercial property and worked for his son-in -law.

Good post Stumper...

 

[kujoe]

Just finished a big one up on Friday. I was the first and only one they called. I was a little suprised that I got it because I know that had they gotten other estimates, I wouldn't have been the cheapest by far. But I took my time in talking to the people and walking their property and discussing and listening to their wants and needs. They later told my wife who is also my secretary that I was very honest, and that is why they chose me.

 

[Stumper]

Just finished a big one up on Friday. I was the first and only one they called. I was a little suprised that I got it because I know that had they gotten other estimates, I wouldn't have been the cheapest by far. But I took my time in talking to the people and walking their property and discussing and listening to their wants and needs. They later told my wife who is also my secretary that I was very honest, and that is why they chose me.

Kujoe, Congrates onthe job and the compliments but........You were the first and only one they called and they had gotten other estimates.???? Does this mean that someone solicited them and you were the double check to see if the doorknocker was being honest and fair?

 

[fpyontek]

Look at the project as a whole and decide how long it's gonna take. Add up the hours and multiply by your hourly rate.

Prett simple really. Works pretty well on jobs 5-10k in size.

I agree with TreeJunkie. You need to know your hourly rate. You can determine that figure if you know what it costs you to do business each month. Listed below is a good explanation on how to figure your hourly rate.

http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/Obj...0-3287-4CA1-944DC75DE82DC59F/111/159/106/ART/

Thats the easy part. The hard part is to figure out how much time each tree or specific item takes to complete. Add up the times, multiply by your rate, and then add in any other expenses you will incur on this job.

You should to keep notes on how long you thought each tree/item would take and then how long it actually took. Referring back to those notes you should be able to hone your time estimation skills.

Fred

 

[kujoe]

They did not have any other estimates, I was the first and only. I said "HAD they gotten other estimates, I am sure I would not have been the cheapest by far". Guess my grammer stands to be corrected...'If they had gotten other estimates' is what I meant.

 

[Stumper]

kujoe, Your grammer was fine-my reader was skipping. My apologies. :angel:

 

[britishArborist]

thanks for everyones help, as it turns out I got the job.

What i did was walk the whole area and estimated every tree that needed work on, I marked them on a map and gave them each a code and a sequencial number.

S - stump and trunk removal (already lying down)
ST- stump and tree removal (already lying down)
T- tree needs climbing and/or needs to ground level stump

I then estimated the various labor hours, climbing, ground crew, and any equipment hours like back hoe, or exceptionally large chainsaws and I put it all in a spreadsheet.

Took about 4 hours total to do the estimate but I think it was worth it.

K

 

[Redbull]

I hope you added that 4hrs to your estimate. I'll sometimes spend over an hour
one-on-one with a potential customer, usually pays off by a closed deal. On larger estimates though, I would definately try to recoup the time spent on preparation.

 

[Redbull]

Oh yeah, sorry, where are my manners? CONGRATS on getting the job. Hope all goes well.