I’m just curious what the results were like. I started using .404 chain on my Pioneer/Partner P45 because that’s what was on it when I bought it. By most standards, it’s a smaller saw to be running .404, but I was really impressed with how long it stayed sharp and after abusing it badly taking out a stump, how little damage was done to it. Now, half of my saws are running .404 chain and I don’t plan on going back. It’s got me wondering though, where’s the cutoff point where the hardiness of .404 is outweighed by the grabbiness of the bigger teeth and the wider kerf that it cuts? How would a 50cc or smaller saw cut with a .404 chain and has anyone actually tried it?
Anyone ever run .404 chain on a smaller saw?
- Thread starter Remle
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Older saws that had 404 on smaller power heads were likely making max power at much lower RPM than modern comparable saws. So making a cutoff point based on displacement alone is difficult. I'll run it when possible, though these days the smaller saws run small spline size sprockets and you need a large spline size to run 404 if using rims.
The Stihl 08 and S10 came with 404...
I’m curious as to just how practical it is. .404 has some serious advantages, and I don’t think the difference in kerf is as big as people make out. .404 is the pitch, rather than the kerf, after all, but there’s also got to be some threshold where running too large of a chain will hold you back. I can’t imagine that my 40V Ryobi could effectively turn a .404 chain. I just suspect that too many rules of thumb are based on conventional wisdom rather than actual trial and error.
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I'm fully invested in my saws as currently setup. Were I to buy a ms500i I would look at a 404 with a 28 inch bar. My 880 with its 404 is very impressive.
My homelite zip does some manglin with 404. But its max RPM is like 5000. and its very torquey. Any other chain would cut too slow.
Matt93eg
ArboristSite Operative
Uncle runs .404 on his Husqvarna 61. Pulls it no issue. He ran .375 for years. Switched to .404 and has no intention of going back.
There is a significant variation in cutter size between the various brands and types of .404 chains. IDR which is big and which is small.
I run Stihl .404 chain on an older 82cc saw (max rpm about 12,500). It cuts a noticeably wider kerf. I would not run it on a smaller saw of the same era.
Ron
Wondering about that as well, running .404 instead of a skip or semi skip 3/8 to keep the load down, assuming the kerf is the same width. Of course the .404 would probably come with a deeper factory raker depth, and it would be pretty rough cutting on smaller wood, so you would have to take that into consideration too.
ML12
ArboristSite Guru
80cc seems to be the cut-off for saws that I have that run .404. Everything smaller is 3/8, not that you couldn't run .404 on the smaller saws, you would just have to sharpen it to a less aggressive hook, and leave the rakers higher. But since I have never tried it I can't really say.
I like .404, seems to be able to take a hell of a beating before losing the edge, compared to some 0.325 that seems to get dull when it even just comes close to wood.
I mill with .404, and wouldn't entertain running anything smaller. My older saws are slowly being switched to 3/8 due to availability mostly.
I like .404, seems to be able to take a hell of a beating before losing the edge, compared to some 0.325 that seems to get dull when it even just comes close to wood.
I mill with .404, and wouldn't entertain running anything smaller. My older saws are slowly being switched to 3/8 due to availability mostly.
stihl86
Addicted to ArboristSite
If a chain had "Rakers", wouldn't it make more sense to put them behind the cutter?
That way they would clean or rake the chips out of the cut.
That's why they call them depth gauges. Mainly because they don't rake anything.
As for the chain, bigger is always better. If the saw has enough power.
That's never a problem with Stihl saws.
That way they would clean or rake the chips out of the cut.
That's why they call them depth gauges. Mainly because they don't rake anything.
As for the chain, bigger is always better. If the saw has enough power.
That's never a problem with Stihl saws.
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Rakers sounds better, and easier to say.
I keep a small supply of .404 around for those few folks running big Stihls. They show up occasionally, desperate for a new chain. One guy arrived up with a 39" Stihl bar that needed .404 and that really caught me by surprise. I had no idea Stihl even made a bar that length.
ML12
ArboristSite Guru
Rakers might just be a west coast phrase, not sure.
404 is a larger kerf, heavier chassis, and a 7 pin 404 rim is about the same size as an 8 tooth 3/8 rim. So if your saw can't pull an 8 tooth rim with 3/8 strongly, I wouldn't bother with 404.
But if you can run 404, it will last much longer in use and between sharpenings vs 3/8. I think Baileys also have skip tooth 404 as well.
Rakers are called rakers because they rake and scrape. Rake=scrape. They rake against the wood to set the cutting height for the teeth.
It's the teeth that actually don't cut if you want to argue semantics. Chainsaw teeth chip. One could say they rake.
But they all rock.
But if you can run 404, it will last much longer in use and between sharpenings vs 3/8. I think Baileys also have skip tooth 404 as well.
Rakers are called rakers because they rake and scrape. Rake=scrape. They rake against the wood to set the cutting height for the teeth.
It's the teeth that actually don't cut if you want to argue semantics. Chainsaw teeth chip. One could say they rake.
But they all rock.
I have 41” medium mount and at least 59” large mount.........maybe 66”. All made by Stihl.
So do I. Where on earth did a 38" Stihl .404 bar come from? I doubt that anyone knows, but it happened. Sorry for the typo in post #13, it was 38" and needed 108 drive links of .404" pitch chain.
Thank you for the cross examination. I have never heard of a 38" Stihl bar until this happened. After he dropped off the bar, I made the chains. I was shaking my head at the time in disbelief, and I doubt I will ever see another one of these bars. I imagine it had a part number, but I confess that I never wrote that down.
As already said, my early 08s / 16" bar has always had .404 and does well with it.
And I got up late and working night shift with too much crazy end of year OT.
Rereading your post I hear a Homer Simpson “DOOH” in my head........lol
Hey.....I’m old.
Digital Out of Home or DOOH refers to digital media used for marketing purposes outside of the home. This excludes TV advertising and radio advertising, but includes digital signage. This is sometimes hyphenated as digital-out-of-home or abbreviated as DOOH.
So, you are saying a 38" Stihl bar with .404" pitch is common these days? Not sure what you mean, but I accept your condition. I'm also too old.
The other day LOML said that I was a model husband. Then I checked my college marketing textbook. It says that a model is a simplified representation of the real thing.
