ATV won't start!

[fields_mj]

So did you ever fix it? What was the culprit?

It's a carb problem. I tore it partially down last week and found a lot of varnish build up under the oring for the main jet and the oring on the bowl. Everything else was spotless. Upon recommendation from one of the guys here, I took a look at the setting for the pilot jet. After writing down where it had been set, I backed it out. It was filthy, AND it was missing the spring that goes inside. I didn't look real good at it, but there's supposed to be an oring in there too, and I'm not sure if it was or or not. My purpose was to clean it out, and it wasn't until after I put it back in and looked at the parts drawing that I realized that pcs were missing. Now keep in mind that I paid over $100 to Rissler's Extreme ATV's here in Brazil IN back in August or Sept to go through it, tell me why I was having so many starting problems, and fowled plugs, and to fix it. When I picked it up, they said it was the carb. I specifically asked if they had cleaned it and put a kit in it, and they said that they had. I now know that this was a load of crap because the missing pcs are part of the carb kit, and there were other parts that are a part of the kit that were in bad shape. I've cleaned them all now, and it's all back in good shape except for the missing parts, so I'm waiting on those to come in. In the mean time, I put it all back to the original condition, and installed it yesterday morning. I had a couple of issues with the float, but after I got those worked out I was able to start the machine. It ran a little rough, probably because of a combination of the choke setting and the pilot jet setting. I shut it down and wasn't able to start it again, so I shut the fuel off and drained the bowl, and now I'm waiting on the parts so that I can get it back together correctly and then get some help getting the carb adjusted correctly.

 

[RAMROD48]

I cant speak about the missing parts BUT the repeat of the varnish and dirty carb IS YOUR PROBLEM...not the guy who cleaned it in August...shelf life of fuel is 45 days and your not using your machine enough...either start using it more, or prepare to have this happen often...

 

[fields_mj]

I cant speak about the missing parts BUT the repeat of the varnish and dirty carb IS YOUR PROBLEM...not the guy who cleaned it in August...shelf life of fuel is 45 days and your not using your machine enough...either start using it more, or prepare to have this happen often...

On one hand, you are correct. I don't use my machine very often, and that is going to cause these kinds of issues. However, there's no way the areas that I'm talking about had been cleaned any time within the past 12 months. There were several areas on the carb that had some varnish build up, and they cleaned up with out much effort. That's what I would expect given the circumstances. There were a few other critical areas that had extremely heavy buildup. These areas A) were not cleaned by Risslers, and B) many of these parts should have actually been replaced since they are part of the standard carb kit for this machine. To make things a little worse, they also stripped the heads on the cover for the throttle cable. So, instead of replacing 3 M5 screws and adding an extra $3 to the bill, they just put them back into the carb as best they could and left it for me. As I pulled the carb off the machine, this was my first clue as to what I was about to find.

Had I not specifically asked if they cleaned the carb and put a kit in it, and had they not answered yes, then I would be completely satisfied with their work (except for the screws). As it is I paid over $100 for someone to do a half hearted job of cleaning out a carb, and putting a new plug in the machine. Even by the time I deduct the $5 for the plug and a little for the cleaning materials, the bill was still over $100. So I probably paid $50 an hour in labor for someone to do a half hearted job on my machine. Something I just did for the first time, and looking back, I could have easily done it with my eyes closed. I don't mind paying good money for a good craftsman to work on something for me, but I'm just not convinced that there are any craftsmen left these days.

 

[hanniedog]

Fields have you tried going up to the next heat range of the plug. Have an old Honda BigRed that fouled plugs in a heart beat. Ended going up either one or two ranges but solved the problem.

 

[OH_Varmntr]

It's a carb problem. I tore it partially down last week and found a lot of varnish build up under the oring for the main jet and the oring on the bowl. Everything else was spotless. Upon recommendation from one of the guys here, I took a look at the setting for the pilot jet. After writing down where it had been set, I backed it out. It was filthy, AND it was missing the spring that goes inside. I didn't look real good at it, but there's supposed to be an oring in there too, and I'm not sure if it was or or not. My purpose was to clean it out, and it wasn't until after I put it back in and looked at the parts drawing that I realized that pcs were missing. Now keep in mind that I paid over $100 to Rissler's Extreme ATV's here in Brazil IN back in August or Sept to go through it, tell me why I was having so many starting problems, and fowled plugs, and to fix it. When I picked it up, they said it was the carb. I specifically asked if they had cleaned it and put a kit in it, and they said that they had. I now know that this was a load of crap because the missing pcs are part of the carb kit, and there were other parts that are a part of the kit that were in bad shape. I've cleaned them all now, and it's all back in good shape except for the missing parts, so I'm waiting on those to come in. In the mean time, I put it all back to the original condition, and installed it yesterday morning. I had a couple of issues with the float, but after I got those worked out I was able to start the machine. It ran a little rough, probably because of a combination of the choke setting and the pilot jet setting. I shut it down and wasn't able to start it again, so I shut the fuel off and drained the bowl, and now I'm waiting on the parts so that I can get it back together correctly and then get some help getting the carb adjusted correctly.

Just to be correct on the verbage (it's a good idea to know in case you call the shop sometime and explain what you found), the pilot jet is not what you adjusted. The little screw on the bottom of the carb consists of the screw, a spring, a tiny metal washer and a tiny o-ring. That is referred to as the pilot screw or fuel screw. If you tell them you adjusted the pilot jet they might look at you funny.

What was the screw set at? It should be between 2 and 2 1/2 turns out from a soft seat. By soft seat I mean you screw it in until it just stops.

On one hand, you are correct. I don't use my machine very often, and that is going to cause these kinds of issues. However, there's no way the areas that I'm talking about had been cleaned any time within the past 12 months. There were several areas on the carb that had some varnish build up, and they cleaned up with out much effort. That's what I would expect given the circumstances. There were a few other critical areas that had extremely heavy buildup. These areas A) were not cleaned by Risslers, and B) many of these parts should have actually been replaced since they are part of the standard carb kit for this machine. To make things a little worse, they also stripped the heads on the cover for the throttle cable. So, instead of replacing 3 M5 screws and adding an extra $3 to the bill, they just put them back into the carb as best they could and left it for me. As I pulled the carb off the machine, this was my first clue as to what I was about to find.

Had I not specifically asked if they cleaned the carb and put a kit in it, and had they not answered yes, then I would be completely satisfied with their work (except for the screws). As it is I paid over $100 for someone to do a half hearted job of cleaning out a carb, and putting a new plug in the machine. Even by the time I deduct the $5 for the plug and a little for the cleaning materials, the bill was still over $100. So I probably paid $50 an hour in labor for someone to do a half hearted job on my machine. Something I just did for the first time, and looking back, I could have easily done it with my eyes closed. I don't mind paying good money for a good craftsman to work on something for me, but I'm just not convinced that there are any craftsmen left these days.

As far as the metric carb screws they stripped, I often refer to them as butter screws because they are soft as butter.

These screws have Japanese Phillips JIS 4633B-3/1991 and DIN/ISO standard 5260 screw heads heads on them, which is shown by a little dot stamped on the head of the screw. There are only 2 screwdriver brands that I know of that correctly fit a JIS screw. One is a SnapOn, and the other, Katun, is a company who gets them from SnapOn.

If you use any other screwdrivers, chances are you will strip the heads. I always use a impact driver to remove those screws, throw them away and replace them with socket head screws.

Good luck!

 

[Walt41]

Fields have you tried going up to the next heat range of the plug. Have an old Honda BigRed that fouled plugs in a heart beat. Ended going up either one or two ranges but solved the problem.

I was thinking the same thing and wondering if the right plug was there in the first place. Just because you get work done at a dealer does not mean it is always right, it is always good to reference the owners manual.
We have two old (1984?) three wheeled hondas that we use for runabouts at the tree farm and we have good luck running non-ethanol 91 octane gas with a splash of sea foam in the tanks, they use so little gas due to short trips that the cost is not a big deal. We also replaced the motor oil with Royal Purple synthetic and gearbox with Mobil 1 gear lube because they sit outside at all times, even in the snow.

 

[fields_mj]

Just to be correct on the verbage (it's a good idea to know in case you call the shop sometime and explain what you found), the pilot jet is not what you adjusted. The little screw on the bottom of the carb consists of the screw, a spring, a tiny metal washer and a tiny o-ring. That is referred to as the pilot screw or fuel screw. If you tell them you adjusted the pilot jet they might look at you funny.

What was the screw set at? It should be between 2 and 2 1/2 turns out from a soft seat. By soft seat I mean you screw it in until it just stops.



As far as the metric carb screws they stripped, I often refer to them as butter screws because they are soft as butter.

These screws have Japanese Phillips JIS 4633B-3/1991 and DIN/ISO standard 5260 screw heads heads on them, which is shown by a little dot stamped on the head of the screw. There are only 2 screwdriver brands that I know of that correctly fit a JIS screw. One is a SnapOn, and the other, Katun, is a company who gets them from SnapOn.

If you use any other screwdrivers, chances are you will strip the heads. I always use a impact driver to remove those screws, throw them away and replace them with socket head screws.

Good luck!

Thanks for the correction! The screw was set at 2 turns out, but like I said it was missing the spring, and possibly the washer and o-ring. Haven't had it back off yet to check. I suspect that my adjustment is currently off a little, but we'll see.

Yes, the screws are junk, and from what I've seen they should be swapped out every time. The fact that they were not replaced really clued me in to the quality of work that I had paid for. I have a set of drivers from Brownells that I use to work on my firearms. I found that the #2 Phillips tip fit the screws very well. I suspect that the Snap-On set is less expensive though, as mine was over $100 when I bought it over 10 years ago.

The plug is what the manual calls for. It is an NGK DR8EA. I don't mess with engines much, and I have no idea what the next hotter plug would be. I do have a new ignition coil for it that I need to bolt on, but I have a feeling that it's not going to do much for me. At this point I think that I have 2 problems. One is old fuel (I have replaced with fresh gas, but this will be an ongoing problem that I will have to address), and the other issue is the carb.

 

[aleman]

The next hotter plug would be a NGK DR7EA...