Best Bar for Alaskan CSM

[Islander]

Hi Folks,

My first post on this forum. I am in awe of the skill and experience of this group. I've read hundreds of posts and responses, and learned a great deal. Keep up the good work!

We had a nasty storm this August, and it took down about 15 trees on our property. For years, my wife and I have been cutting firewood every year, and end up making firewood from nice straight ash logs because we have no way to get the logs out of our woods. This year, with all the down trees, we decided to try milling some lumber with an Alaskan Mill. Most of the logs are ash, with some basswood and box elder. Most are 12-18".

We have a post-HD Makita 6401, which I know is low on power for milling (I've been looking for a reason to upgrade to a 7900 if needed). I figure I'd start with some low pro ripping chain and see how that works. I hope this combination is acceptable for the 4-5 logs that are ready to go...I should probably take it slow starting out anyway.

My question is...I'm ordering some ripping chain and a 28" bar from Bailey's. I'm trying to decide between an Oregon Power Match and Windsor Speed Tip bar. Any thoughts on which brand is better for milling?

The Windsor bar appears to be a little narrower width (not thickness). Seems like that might be more tolerant to parallelism error of the bar with the rails. It also seems like the sprocket plate is shorter, which might be more clamp-friendly where the Alaskan clamps to the bar. However, both points are pure speculation...and I have no data, just pictures.

Are there other considerations I should think about? Anyone have direct experience one way or the other? Should I expect both to last about the same?

Thanks!

 

[TedChristiansen]

Islander,

I'm sure others will chime in with their favorite solutions to the wood cutting "problem," so I'll offer mine.

I started with the Logosol TimberJig and Husky 385XP, used it for about 1 year and cut about 1000 bf of 4/4 lumber with it. Using a CSM is a good solution for me (no place to store a bandmill), but pushing the saw through the wood and working on the knees was killing me. So I upgraded to the Logosol Woodworkers Mill. I have been very pleased with it.

Ted

 

[wdchuck]

Welcome to AS.

I have a similiar csm setup, using the GB, with a stihl 460 and 20" PowerMatchPlus bar that has seen plenty of use, also a 24" stihl ES bar, for ash the same size that you are working with, like a knife through butter. That 6401 will mill those logs just fine, turn your oiler up, back out the H screw about an 1/8 turn, to enrich the saw, take it easy, get the starting end of the log up about 2-5* higher than the finish end so you are milling downhill slightly, and you should be all set.

Milling specific chain will give you a smoother surface than regular chain, and the bars you asked about should work out well also. Each experience teaches the most.

 

[woodshop]

My question is...I'm ordering some ripping chain and a 28" bar from Bailey's. I'm trying to decide between an Oregon Power Match and Windsor Speed Tip bar. Any thoughts on which brand is better for milling?

Welcome to this part of arboristsite.com. Obvious but I will say it anyway, make sure you order a bar with same gage as the chainyou are getting

I have been using the Windsor speed tip 36" (.063) with my 395 on my csm. I did manage to put a kink in a Windsor bar one time, but was my own fault, so can't blame the bar. I think they are cheaper price than the Oregon bars.

 

[carvinmark]

Welcome to AS. I have used both and they are both fine. Just be patient while milling and don't push to hard, let the saw do it's job. Glad you will be getting more than fire wood out of the logs.

 

[BobL]

G'day Islander - welcome to our playhouse.
I agree with the others except for . . .

. . . but pushing the saw through the wood and working on the knees was killing me.

I don't understand why so many alaskan users still do this. I agree with wdchuck, unless the log is large, it generally takes little effort to roll it onto a couple of 8" blocks and then get a jack under one end and lift and chock that end so the top of the log is at hip height. No working on your knees and the amount of push need drops substantially.

 

[Islander]

Thanks for the warm welcome and advice!

Thanks for the help on this. I'll go ahead and try the Windsor bar. I had looked at GB bars, but it looks like they only have .058 in the 24-28" lengths. I'm planning to use the Bailey's Low Pro ripping chain which they only have in .050.

I'll also make sure to turn up the oiler and richen the mixture a little. I also like the idea of the downhill milling...will work on a rig for that.

I'll post some pictures after I get started...but I may have some more questions before that...

Thanks again everyone!

 

[lazermule]

I went with the 20" Carlton hard tip and a bailley ripping chain on my Husky 61 and it mills beautifully. I milled some ash the other day and it did well.

 

[aquan8tor]

For what its worth, I do NOT like the carlton "premium hard tip" made by tsumura; I've used this little bar the least of any that I have and it has the most wear on the rails. Me no like. I'm sticking with oregon or windsor from now on. The 20" carlton hard tip that I have has worn really well.

 

[BlueRider]

woodsman pro vs oregon

I replaced my worn out 42" oregon roller nose with a woodsman pro and I have been very happy with its performance. The other bar I have is a 32" stihl sprocket nose, sorry but I cant remember the lettter designation. the woodsman pro has less flex and lasts 2x longer between dressings. I kow the woodsman pro is over kill for the length you are interested in but for anything longer then a 20" I would definately consider it as an option. in the end I think I have made back the difference in initial cost in less maintainance labor and longer bar life. less flex and better suface quallity are just bonuses.

 

[Islander]

Sprocket or Hard Tip...Cheap or Premo?

lazermule, Thanks for the feedback on the Carlton Hard Tip.

Makes me wonder if a sprocket nose is a good thing or not for milling. It seems like the addition of a rotating sprocket might introduce some vibration or instability that could effect surface finish. On the other hand, the hard nose certainly adds friction that subtracts power.

Has anybody done a controlled comparison between sprocket tip and hard nose for surface finish and/or milling power?

BlueRider, I looked at the WoodsmanPro bars, but was quickly hit with sticker shock (2X+ the price of Carlton or Oregon). My thought was to try a cheaper one as a starter, and perhaps upgrade when I go to a longer bar. However, I will also need more power at that point, so kind of a package deal. I'd need some bigger, nicer logs to justify the cost.

Thanks again everyone for your help...most appreciated!

 

[Railomatic]

I have found the best bar for milling to be the Cannon superbar, you can change the tip and drive sprocket to a 325, which will give you a much faster cutting speed and a lot better finish.

Davy.

 

[Islander]

.325 Ripping Chain?

Railomatic,

Thanks for the advice on the bar. I had looked at the Cannon bars, but was turned off by the price. Seemed like more quality than I need. However, if you can swap sprockets to a .325, then that's another story. I could not find a .325 bar with the H1 mount for my Dolmar. Can sprockets be swapped like that on other bars?

I assume you grind a regular .325 chain into a ripping chain? I don't see any .325 ripping chains from Bailey's...

Do you use a Narrow Kerf chain? If so, does the bar really need to be NK for milling? I was also looking at the 3/8 x .043 low profile narrow kerf (Oregon 90SG) chain as a possibility. Problem here is no .043 bars to fit my Dolmar. Also would need to grind off the safety links.

My current plan is to use the WoodsmanPro 3/8 Low Profile ripping chain. How does that compare with a .325 chain (Low Pro or regular) for speed and surface?

Thanks!

 

[aquan8tor]

lazermule, Thanks for the feedback on the Carlton Hard Tip.

Makes me wonder if a sprocket nose is a good thing or not for milling. It seems like the addition of a rotating sprocket might introduce some vibration or instability that could effect surface finish. On the other hand, the hard nose certainly adds friction that subtracts power.

Has anybody done a controlled comparison between sprocket tip and hard nose for surface finish and/or milling power?

BlueRider, I looked at the WoodsmanPro bars, but was quickly hit with sticker shock (2X+ the price of Carlton or Oregon). My thought was to try a cheaper one as a starter, and perhaps upgrade when I go to a longer bar. However, I will also need more power at that point, so kind of a package deal. I'd need some bigger, nicer logs to justify the cost.

Thanks again everyone for your help...most appreciated!

I've never done a side by side timed comparison, but I can tell you that a hard tip will not cut well if you keep the chain tight, which you need to do if you're milling. Its going to heat up like CRAZY if you try to keep it tight doing a big log, IMHO. I'm only thinking of the physics behind it, mind you; I haven't tried milling with a hard tip personally. Hard tip bars need to run with a fair bit of slack in them. If you're going to do this with a bigger bar, you need a sprocket tip, no question. I love my carlton hard tip for cutting firewood, though. Man does it wear well, too. If I wanted, it could also handle .404 or .325, as it has a pretty big radius tip and no sprockets teeth to keep me from running whatever I want on it. Good bar. It definitely uses some power, but I don't worry so much about ruining the tip if I hit some dirt with it. Chains are easy enough to sharpen. I don't want to have to replace a tip. As soon as I run a few more sharpenings through my 32" loops, I'm going to get a .325 tip and a little spool of .325 chain for milling. On the other hand, I may just get a new bar, as I have a bunch of .063 chain for the 42" bar; it sure would be simple to get a different mid sized bar in .063 so that I can break up some of the larger chains I made to use for milling with a smaller bar...

When I got the 32" bar I was thinking I could use lo profile chain on it, but I found it is really impossible and a little dangerous to use on a larger bar. I should've thought about keeping all the chain the same gauge from the beginning if I'd been smart. I haven't seen larger bars except the woodsman pro which was really out of my price range when I bought the 42" oregon. Just my $.02. Didn't mean to thread hijack.

 

[BobL]

I've never done a side by side timed comparison, but I can tell you that a hard tip will not cut well if you keep the chain tight, which you need to do if you're milling. Its going to heat up like CRAZY if you try to keep it tight doing a big log, IMHO. I'm only thinking of the physics behind it, mind you; I haven't tried milling with a hard tip personally.

BIL Mill uses a 42" hardnose and it doesn't seem to be that big of a deal whether the chain is tensioned up to the bar or a touch slacker - it seems to cut at about the same rate with other factors, like how much resin is sticking to the chain that controls cut speed. If it is over tensioned it seems to heat up quickly and expans the chain a bit more - not good for either the bar or chain. Starting with a slightly slacker chain, the chain still heats up (a bit slower than the previous case) indicating fthat riction with the timber is a major cause of heat. If I start with a slightly slack chain by the time I get to the end of a 12 ft hardwood slab it appears the chain could even come off the bar. If you adjust the chain at this point and then let the CS sit the chain will definitely be over tensioned when its time to start the next cut. This is where water cooling seems to be very effective since the chain tension can be kept relatively constant. This and the fact that teh water keeps the bulk of the resin off the chain are the main reasons I'm persisting with the water cooling.