Better or worse than Alpine Butterfly knot for inline loop attach ?

[preventec47]

I stumbled across this on youtube and has put some doubt in my mind about using alpine butterfly knots inline for attachment.
I like the looks of it but thought perhaps I should use whatever has prooven to preserve the most strength of the rope.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

Looks like a fine knot. Can be loaded pretty much just like an Alpine butterfly. Probably comes apart just as easy or easier...

I can tie an AB knot a lot faster though. Three loops over the hand, third one in the middle approach and the AB is tied in 10 seconds. I can't wrap that many times that fast.


I think either knot would be fine.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Nothing wrong with that knot, just uses a lot of rope, slower to tie, and not bi- directional like a butterfly... why would it cause you to doubt a butterfly? That knot is tried and true.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Done similar, kinda a fig8 on steroids.
1way compared to the B'Fly, but think easier untie.
Seems B'Fly is made to pull perpendicular to the main end to end pull, and we distort to pulling inline.
>>this seems to want to be pulled inline, lays more Naturally to such service.
Could jam stick in to keep rope from seating so tight, and thus easier untie after remove 'pin'.

 

[preventec47]

Nothing wrong with that knot, just uses a lot of rope, slower to tie, and not bi- directional like a butterfly... why would it cause you to doubt a butterfly? That knot is tried and true.

I realize the butterfly is tried and true but if there was another knot that was stronger, in extreme situations it would be worth the extra time it takes to tie it if you get more strength.

 

[preventec47]

Could jam stick in to keep rope from seating so tight, and thus easier untie after remove 'pin'.

I have thought about using some kind of stick or pin before in a knot that would be easier to untie
after you pulled the pin out. Do they make pins or sticks just for that ? I was thinking of how a tapered
nail punch would be good because of the taper but we would need something smooth ideally made
from the same material as the felling wedges. Or maybe a big 20 penney construction nail would work well.
In the case of this featured knot, where would you put the nail ?

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

I realize the butterfly is tried and true but if there was another knot that was stronger, in extreme situations it would be worth the extra time it takes to tie it if you get more strength.

IMO, if you feel your load is going to be so close to the ropes breaking strength that having a slightly inferior strength knot is going to be the difference between success and failure, you should get a stronger rope.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

IMO, if you feel your load is going to be so close to the ropes breaking strength that having a slightly inferior strength knot is going to be the difference between success and failure, you should get a stronger rope.

I feel like this is a point we should discuss the difference between breaking strength and working load limit, and cycles to failure...

 

[501Maico]

Done similar, kinda a fig8 on steroids.
1way compared to the B'Fly, but think easier untie.
Seems B'Fly is made to pull perpendicular to the main end to end pull, and we distort to pulling inline.
>>this seems to want to be pulled inline, lays more Naturally to such service.
Could jam stick in to keep rope from seating so tight, and thus easier untie after remove 'pin'.

That's what I was thinking. A directional figure8 with more coils.

 

[JRM]

Done similar, kinda a fig8 on steroids.
1way compared to the B'Fly, but think easier untie.
Seems B'Fly is made to pull perpendicular to the main end to end pull, and we distort to pulling inline.

I learned about the alpine butterfly in rescue training. It is intended to be used from all directions. Here is a good description of it.

https://www.animatedknots.com/alpine-butterfly-loop-knot

Load can be safely applied: from the loop to either end of the rope; between the two ends with the loop hanging free; or to the loop with the load spread between the two ends.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Used a lot, kinda easy pattern to find way to once understand things, or even just intro'd to fig.8,9,10 type builds etc. (Life on a Line)
But is nice to see formal recognition from reputable source, with ratings, etc. and even in a rope that may be more troublesome in B'Fly use.
>>also a fair B'Fly alternative to have in kit, even if just 1 way vehicle.

 

[pdqdl]

If you need a great midline knot that is stable in one direction only, try the man harness knot.


This has been my go-to knot for many years. It ties very fast and easy, and never binds up when pulled hard. Once set firmly, it holds in both directions, too. It will collapse down and choke off the loop if pulled in the wrong direction prior to being properly set.