Big log versus many smaller ones, which yeilds more splits?

[turnkey4099]

I have to ask PA Plumber this question. The long 42"+ dia. log as shown in the first two Pics had to be rolled somehow before you could buck the logs into separate pieces as shown in the last Pic. Otherwise, the chain hits the ground as you saw and it is ruined (or dulled immediately). If the long log was not rolled, clearance still had to be obtained between the saw chain and the ground to complete the cut.

How did you accomplish this mission?

I make several cuts almost all the way through then "baby" the last inch with the chain barely moving to free up a section of 2 to 4 rounds, roll them and finish cutting them apart. A wedge driven hard into the cut will sometimes lift a log enough to finish the cut clear of the dirt. A chain is not instantantly dulled by touching the ground. A chain Looses sharpness rapidly when hitting dirt but several cuts can be made before a touch up is needed.

I also "cheat" a bit. Since I always carry at least 2 saws I will use one that already needs a touchup to finish a cut on the dirt.

Then it is a rare log that does not have clearance under it at some point in its length.

Harry K

 

[ropensaddle]

I make several cuts almost all the way through then "baby" the last inch with the chain barely moving to free up a section of 2 to 4 rounds, roll them and finish cutting them apart. A wedge driven hard into the cut will sometimes lift a log enough to finish the cut clear of the dirt. A chain is not instantantly dulled by touching the ground. A chain Looses sharpness rapidly when hitting dirt but several cuts can be made before a touch up is needed.

I also "cheat" a bit. Since I always carry at least 2 saws I will use one that already needs a touchup to finish a cut on the dirt.

Then it is a rare log that does not have clearance under it at some point in its length.

Harry K

Good point I usually just use this!

 

[turnkey4099]

Good point I usually just use this!

Now _that_ is cheating!

Harry K

 

[Wood Doctor]

Now _that_ is cheating!

Harry K

I agree, Harry. When I cannot roll the monster log, what I sometimes do (and perhaps should not) is to use a really sharp chain to make all of the bucking cuts and stop when close to the ground. When all the bucking cuts are made, I remove the sharp chain from the bar and use an old one to finish off the cuts. Sometimes I can complete the job before the old chain can't cut through butter.

Then there is another option. I get out a shovel and dig underneath the kerfs before I complete the bucking cuts, knowing that the ground is going to put me out of business. Takes time, but sometimes it works.

Frankly, I still do not know how PA Plumber finished off those huge rounds on the mammoth log. Must be his secret. Regardless, I'd like to see other members of this forum offer their opinion on how they think he did it. :monkey:

 

[wvlogger]

I agree, Harry. When I cannot roll the monster log, what I sometimes do (and perhaps should not) is to use a really sharp chain to make all of the bucking cuts and stop when close to the ground. When all the bucking cuts are made, I remove the sharp chain from the bar and use an old one to finish off the cuts. Sometimes I can complete the job before the old chain can't cut through butter.

Then there is another option. I get out a shovel and dig underneath the kerfs before I complete the bucking cuts, knowing that the ground is going to put me out of business. Takes time, but sometimes it works.

Frankly, I still do not know how PA Plumber finished off those huge rounds on the mammoth log. Must be his secret. Regardless, I'd like to see other members of this forum offer their opinion on how they think he did it. :monkey:

maybe he cut them almost all the way through than found a spot that he could make a complete cut because the log was off the groung just enough than rolled it and finished. or he put blocks of wood under it every soo often so he could make the cuts

 

[ropensaddle]

I agree, Harry. When I cannot roll the monster log, what I sometimes do (and perhaps should not) is to use a really sharp chain to make all of the bucking cuts and stop when close to the ground. When all the bucking cuts are made, I remove the sharp chain from the bar and use an old one to finish off the cuts. Sometimes I can complete the job before the old chain can't cut through butter.

Then there is another option. I get out a shovel and dig underneath the kerfs before I complete the bucking cuts, knowing that the ground is going to put me out of business. Takes time, but sometimes it works.

Frankly, I still do not know how PA Plumber finished off those huge rounds on the mammoth log. Must be his secret. Regardless, I'd like to see other members of this forum offer their opinion on how they think he did it. :monkey:

Two words cant hook.

 

[mdotis]

Monster log

On a log the size of PA Plumber's, I have in the past cut almost all the way through them and then taken a steel wedge and maul and was able to break off the last few inches of holding wood on each cut. That way I was able to break them without getting the chain in the dirt. You do however have to watch so you do not hit the wedge with the saw if you cannot break the blocks all the way off.

 

[BIG JAKE]

Post #3 is this thread answers it definitively. Case closed.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=132442

Agreed! You have way too much time on your hands. What your volume experiment doesn't account for is bark. There'd be alot more with the smaller pieces. The volume difference in bark would have an impact on the total BTU comparison between the two loads. Whether or not it would be significant is the question. I prefer the big rounds though. Less bark, more pure wood-trouble is I'm getting older. What I could lift in my 20's is disappearing slowly. So now I just noodle more! Good experiment Curly

 

[logbutcher]

Post #3 is this thread answers it definitively. Case closed.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=132442

:yourock:
I forgot how good your work was. Nice clean intelligent approach. Reps well deserved C².

Now for another challenge: illustrate for the great unwashed the diverse Btu value of species--by weight, by density. I'm always looking for a way to show firewood values in my programs. e.g. oak vs spruce.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Two words cant hook.

Wait a minute. You say that you can use a cant hook to roll a 42" diameter log on flat ground that's 40 feet long and might easily weigh over 12 tons?

You and what army? Please advise.

 

[ropensaddle]

Wait a minute. You say that you can use a cant hook to roll a 42" diameter log on flat ground that's 40 feet long and might easily weigh over 12 tons?

You and what army? Please advise.

Me,my self,and I! Yes it can be done but you have to know how and have the right gear!

 

[PA Plumber]

I have to ask PA Plumber this question. The long 42"+ dia. log as shown in the first two Pics had to be rolled somehow before you could buck the logs into separate pieces as shown in the last Pic. Otherwise, the chain hits the ground as you saw and it is ruined (or dulled immediately). If the long log was not rolled, clearance still had to be obtained between the saw chain and the ground to complete the cut.

How did you accomplish this mission?

We've been away for a few days, but back now.

A few years ago I read, somewhere on this forum, that you can watch the chips change color when you are getting near the bottom of the log and getting into the bark.

That's exactly how these were cut. Watching for chip color changes, pulling out so the nose was just catching the outer bark, and then roll out the round.

There wasn't any cutting part way and rolling this one over.

I may have some more pics of another log we worked on at this same cutting location. I'll see what I can come up with.

 

[PA Plumber]

Here's a smaller one. I would guess around 28". No rolling here.

 

[o8f150]

i personally don't care for anything over 20". anything bigger then that i am just able to handle it by myself

 

[CountryBoy19]

While this isn't exactly the discussion at hand here I think it affects a lot of the people here that scavenge their wood.

1 major thing to consider when looking at what size firewood is desirable is how much additional work is involved. For me, I normally scavenge tree-tops from places that have been logged. Normally the bigger diameter that is left the more wood I get for the work in clearing the brush from the treetop. It is a lot of work to de-limb the tree and clear the brush out of the way to buck the firewood. So when I get a treetop that starts at a 28" log etc compared to a 12" log, I get a lot more wood for a little more work.

Also, I get more wood for the trips to the truck I make. Sometimes I have to carry the wood 20-40 yards and it's a lot less work for me to wrestle (or even roll) a big round to the truck rather than a small round or even 2 or 3 4-5" rounds.

So essentially, I get more wood from the "bigger rounds" because that normally means there is more of the tree left on the ground, and I don't have nearly as much de-limbing to do near the big rounds as I do near the tree-top.

 

[Wood Doctor]

We've been away for a few days, but back now.

A few years ago I read, somewhere on this forum, that you can watch the chips change color when you are getting near the bottom of the log and getting into the bark.

That's exactly how these were cut. Watching for chip color changes, pulling out so the nose was just catching the outer bark, and then roll out the round.

There wasn't any cutting part way and rolling this one over.

I may have some more pics of another log we worked on at this same cutting location. I'll see what I can come up with.

I figured you never rolled that huge log. Well then, it looks like my idea also works, in addition to yours--looking for the chips to change color. Sometimes the bark is either too thin or my eyes are too weak to rely on that, so I either (1) dig underneath the huge round or (2) make all the bucking cuts 95% down with a sharp chain and change to an older sacrificial chain to finish the log off. That old chain usually has small teeth from repeated sharpenings and is on its last leg.

Thanks for the tip on the color change. I'll watch for it. My next big log is a 32" dia. walnut log about 12' long and the outer portion is sapwood that has a major color change from the heartwood. Your color change tip should work well with it.

 

[PA Plumber]

Another thing that comes to mind is that you can kinda feel where the tip of the saw is if you are...


Wait for it...





Yep...



One with the "Forest."


Okay, so maybe "One with the Force" sounds better.