big logs 3120 best mill

[undercut]

If i want to make large slabs and will be using my 395 or 3120 what is the best mill to get? I was hoping to be able to slab the really big ones like 5+ feet in diameter. I have a 42 inch bar for the 3120 and a 36 for the 395 currently. Can you cheat and come in from both sides when you get to a thick point or will i just need some mega bar . I really am sick of giving big wood away or seeing it go to fire wood or mulch. I will probably look into one of those skill mill/lucas style mills some day but for now i am really interested in making some large slabs for a bar top or really interesting one peace wood project. What are you thoughts on really good mill set ups for large slabbing? I am getting itchy, i actually milled some black walnut freehand a little while ago. I think i need to get me a mill.
Thanks in advance.

 

[BobL]

If i want to make large slabs and will be using my 395 or 3120 what is the best mill to get? I was hoping to be able to slab the really big ones like 5+ feet in diameter. I have a 42 inch bar for the 3120 and a 36 for the 395 currently. Can you cheat and come in from both sides when you get to a thick point or will i just need some mega bar . I really am sick of giving big wood away or seeing it go to fire wood or mulch. I will probably look into one of those skill mill/lucas style mills some day but for now i am really interested in making some large slabs for a bar top or really interesting one peace wood project. What are you thoughts on really good mill set ups for large slabbing? I am getting itchy, i actually milled some black walnut freehand a little while ago. I think i need to get me a mill.
Thanks in advance.

I'm really glad to hear you want to reduce wood waste but before worrying too much about the sort of mill required to mill 5 ft wide slabs you may want to think about how you are going to physically handle them. They don't exactly walk off the log into your drying shed by themselves. A tractor/forklift is almost mandatory for this sort of thing.

A 42" bar on a conventional mill will allow you to cut a max of 38". How wide a bar are you planning? Also, with two extra cuts you can still mill a 38 x 1.4 = 53" diameter log. You can also mill a 60" diam log with a 42" blade but it will required 8 wasted cuts and of course you are still restricted to a 38 final width.

 

[undercut]

handling

I have a new holland skid steer and a john deer back-ho, i think i am going to get a boxer mini skid steer also but as of now i was hoping to use the skidsteer mainly. It need a new carb but i have been keeping it running with a little starter fluid and choking the hell out of it on starts the back ho runs great but i usually don't bring it to jobs. I plan on the mini skidder for most applications in the future. It should be able to lift 1000lbs. One thing i can say is i probably could use some forks, for now i think i will be using ropes or slings to move slabs. unless you have some ideas of what i could use. All i have is a bucket on the new holland. I have a 42 inch bar now for the 3120. i have two new ripping chains also. They have a slight angle on them i read some where you have to file them square to take the slight angle off. I will buy what ever bar you think i need to mill nice larger slabs. I feel like the 42 should be easy enough to handle but then again i am a novice at milling so i am sure i will be in for surprises. I have to take a 4 foot dia maple down soon. Maybe i should start smaller and work my way up then it will be easier to get a system down and when i move up to really wide slabs i will have some theory behind me. What mills do you suggest for the 3120 for 3-4 foot diam logs?
Thanks for helping out.

 

[undercut]

two things i forgot to mention

i was thinking of slinging/roping off the bucket on the skid steer.(just to clear that up) i could maybe get slip on forks?
the other thing was i was thinking about getting a smaller guage bar for less waste. going smaller than 63 guage a good idea on a 42 in bar? what can you get away with 58 or even 50? some shop here said that i can snap chains just going down to 58 guage on the 3120, but these guys don't even cut wood. they just sell stuff ....

 

[undercut]

more i forgot on chain

I like full chisel fully packed and round ground for regular tree work. the ripping chains i got are round chisel skip (i believe) and round ground. Is this type the best? I would guess i would like full chisel fully packed and round ground just with the squared up angle cutter for milling since i love that for all around cutting. The round chisel is supposed to be more forgiving but i like filing razor sharp, letting the saw fly through the wood. i have an obsession with keeping my chains sharp. set me straight on chain type.. thanks again

 

[woodshop]

i was thinking of slinging/roping off the bucket on the skid steer.(just to clear that up) i could maybe get slip on forks?
the other thing was i was thinking about getting a smaller guage bar for less waste. going smaller than 63 guage a good idea on a 42 in bar? what can you get away with 58 or even 50? some shop here said that i can snap chains just going down to 58 guage on the 3120, but these guys don't even cut wood. they just sell stuff ....

Aggie might be around soon on this one, he is the one to ask about what chain for long bars. I have only used .375/.063 on my 36 inch granberg mill. You can use smaller stuff, 3/8LP for shorter bars, but my personal opinion is anything more than 24 inches coupled with anything more than a 60cc saw you are looking for trouble. A broken chain is a weapon till it finds something to stop it. Hopefully not your arm or face.

 

[undercut]

safety first

What ever it takes to be safe is fine. I think i would prefer the smallest i can get away with but i am definately up different opinions on what people like. How do you like that granberg? What is the largest dia you can mill with that set up 34 inches? I didn't quite get the thing about eight wasted cuts and you can larger slabs. If some one could explain that also that would be appreciated. Thanks...

 

[Haywire Haywood]

I think you will find that semi-chisel chain is the best bet for milling. Round or square chisel is going to dull fast from what I've read.

Also, changing the gauge of the chain you run from 63 to 50 will not reduce waste. That is simply the thickness of the drive links and has nothing to do with the width of the kerf. Going from 404 to 375 pitch is what will reduce the kerf, and hence the waste. You will also cut faster with the narrower kerf. I'm just spewing up what I've read here tho... those with some actual experience will speak up shortly.

good luck,
Ian

 

[undercut]

Changing pitch changes kerf??? what? Confused now

I think you will find that semi-chisel chain is the best bet for milling. Round or square chisel is going to dull fast from what I've read.

Also, changing the gauge of the chain you run from 63 to 50 will not reduce waste. That is simply the thickness of the drive links and has nothing to do with the width of the kerf. Going from 404 to 375 pitch is what will reduce the kerf, and hence the waste. You will also cut faster with the narrower kerf. I'm just spewing up what I've read here tho... those with some actual experience will speak up shortly.

good luck,
Ian

Yeah i have no clue what i am saying half the time. I need the luck.
What determines the kerf then? it is the width from the outside edge to outside edge of the cutters? left to right kinda thing? I am always confused lol.. I thought pitch was the distance apart the cutters are counting three rivet points divided by two. To be honest with you i just thought a fatter bar would have a wider cut just because the chain could be bigger, bigger guage, bigger drivers, bigger chain. I think kerf is in the chain specs, now i am gonna have to go take a look. I need to see if pitch directly corilates with kerf. Oh yeah not sure if this will help but when i say change guage i am assuming running the guage stated on the bar (max guage) so there will be no play. I know you can run different guages some times one smaller but that messes with my head to much. I like to know everything is at the tightest tolerences no play. Chain can either be ground round or square correct? well then the new designs they come up with. The the cutter shape can be full chisel (not rounded) semi chisel (rounded) chipper (rounded) and so on. Now i am wondering if i know anything at all!

"Going from 404 to 375 pitch is what will reduce the kerf, and hence the waste"

so a 3/8 pitch on a 50 guage bar is going to have the same kerf as a 3/8 pitch chain on a 63 guage bar because pitch is what dictates kerf? doesn't sound right but beats the hell out of me. They don't put the bigger cutters of the same cutter type on a larger guage? Obviously the smallest kerf will be on a smaller pitch chain like 1/4 pitch on some carving bars but i would think that there would be some variation on kerf with the chain related to max guage. I think i am confused again. I guess what i am trying to say in this ramble is if the guage is bigger the bar has to be bigger thus the chain and cutters and the kerf, unless they just change the drivers and the chain and the cutters stay exactly the same. So then having a higher guage bar would get you more stability? lol somebody help ughhh. so what mill should i get for the 3120 anyway?

 

[BobL]

What determines the kerf then? it is the width from the outside edge to outside edge of the cutters? left to right kinda thing?

Yep - you can hold two straight edges either side of the chain and measure the gap between the straight edges but the real test is to make a cut and measure the kerf. Here is an interesting way of doing it. get a small log and measure it's diameter. Then rip it in half with the CS and put the two pieces together piece of wood and measure it. This takes into account your and bar chain slop which can make a difference.

I always thought different sized pitches are originally designed for different power output heads and any resulting kerf is a secondary issue. Bigger pitch used bigger/thicker chain links to withstand more tension and undergo less stretching and breaking. These bigger chains also generally happen to have a greater kerf. The thickness of the drive links or bar groove width is also a power thing. If you drive 0.050 chain with a big engine you could strip the sprocket pretty quickly so 0.058 or 063 is a better option.

In most cases there is some overlap - if you look at a chain saw manufacturers catalog you can see what is generally on offer.

 

[undercut]

saw mills

Should i be looking at open end sawmills i can mount on my bar so i can cut half way through a large diameter log then when i get to the end cut the other half that i couldn't reach on the first pass? Is this even possible? Is there a serious kick back issue when trying to do this? What is a good mill? Say you wanted to make some nice slabs with a 3120 what would your pic be for a good all around mill? I suppose i should just get a granberg mill? lol... I need advice. think i should get the mill they sell at baileys? I have a 372 395 and 3120. i Prefer to use the 3120 because i don't use it much on the job and i would like to keep it in use because i don;t like tools sitting. Give me reccomendations thanks...

 

[oldsaw]

Should i be looking at open end sawmills i can mount on my bar so i can cut half way through a large diameter log then when i get to the end cut the other half that i couldn't reach on the first pass? Is this even possible? Is there a serious kick back issue when trying to do this? What is a good mill? Say you wanted to make some nice slabs with a 3120 what would your pic be for a good all around mill? I suppose i should just get a granberg mill? lol... I need advice. think i should get the mill they sell at baileys? I have a 372 395 and 3120. i Prefer to use the 3120 because i don't use it much on the job and i would like to keep it in use because i don;t like tools sitting. Give me reccomendations thanks...

No, I wouldn't do an open ended mill, they are designed for small logs. Get the Granberg Alaskan or the GB (if it's still available in the US, there have been issues in the past), both are excellent mills. Get at least a 36" mill, and use a 42" bar on it. If you will have larger logs than that, get a larger mill and a bar 5-6" longer than your intended cutting width. With the Alaskan, you can buy longer extrusions, although they don't come cheap.

I like my 3120 for milling. Has served me well. Use a 42" bar, 3/8th chain and a 36" mill. I have a few hundred board feet under my belt, and have been very happy with the set-up. Search this forum for Dustytools and Woodshop, they are guys who have their systems down. Aggiewoodbutcher is another experienced CSMer with some great posts. Then there are some hacks like me who chime in every now and then.

Mark

 

[undercut]

guage-oldsaw?

on your 3/8th chain on the 42" bar, what guage are you running?
Thanks

 

[dustytools]

I have a couple of long bars (42" and 44" double ender) Both are set up now with 3/8pitch X .063 gauge. P.S. do not listen to Oldsaw as he is no hack and has tons of good info to share with us.:greenchainsaw:

 

[Haywire Haywood]

I have a couple of long bars (42" and 44" double ender) Both are set up now with 3/8pitch X .063 gauge. P.S. do not listen to Oldsaw as he is no hack and has tons of good info to share with us.:greenchainsaw:

Yep... you should only listen to hacks with no reliable information to speak of... LOL

Ian

 

[dustytools]

Yep... you should only listen to hacks with no reliable information to speak of... LOL

Ian

Just ignore his comment about him calling himself a hack. Listen to everything else that he has to say.:greenchainsaw:

 

[undercut]

hacks

It's always the people that think they know everything you want to watch out for ... I can tell old saw is not a hack but then again i won't take the title from him if he wants to pretend. I have a 42" bar and a couple rip chains to fit it. I think i am gonna start with that, but ideally i know i want to be able to slab the giant ones. I did just realize that my original dream of making huge wide slabs is not as practical since the bulk of the wood i have access to is on the medium to large size. I would guess i will get a lot of use out of a mill running a 42" bar so i shouldn't be in a rush to move up so quick. That way i can get a little time under my belt. do you think there is any advantage running 3/8th vrs .404?

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

OK- I must have missed this thread so I'll try to catch up. I'll mostly echo what others have said already but I'll try to add a few of my experiences.

Can you cheat and come in from both sides when you get to a thick point or will i just need some mega bar

It will be very hard to make a pass from each side and get them to consistently match up. Your better off with a longer bar especially since you already have the powerhead to pull it.

Maybe i should start smaller and work my way up then it will be easier to get a system down and when i move up to really wide slabs i will have some theory behind me.

The very first CSM I built and used was a 72". If I can do it, anyone can. Just put your study time in here and use your head and you will be fine.


About the chains... Most modern chains have heavy bodies for liability reasons. Take, for instance, Stihl chain. If you look closely at most of their .058 or .050 gauge chains, you will find that all the components of the chain are actually .063 ga with only the tang (the part that rides in the bar grove) stamped down in thickness to the stated gauge.

so a 3/8 pitch on a 50 guage bar is going to have the same kerf as a 3/8 pitch chain on a 63 guage bar because pitch is what dictates kerf? … They don't put the bigger cutters of the same cutter type on a larger guage?

Short answers- yes,no. Long answer- the cutters are the same on chains of similar pitch regardless of gauge. I’ve measured many different chain styles, pitches, gauges, grind angles, etc. and found the only variable that has a consistent measurable effect on kerf width is pitch. On average, .404 produces a 3/8” to 7/16” kerf, 3/8” produces a 5/16” to 3/8” kerf and .325 runs 5/16” or slightly less (I have not tried LP but it won’t hold up to a 120cc saw anyway). There are many other factors that can affect these results such as chain tension, bar wear, grind angles, etc., etc. but the magnitude is relatively small (provided you don’t have several of them working together). You can drive your self mad worrying about these things but you shouldn’t when starting out. They all work, some just marginally better than others.

Personally, I use full-comp semi-chisel .325 .063 ga. for my 44” bar/ 084 mill. It holds up well and cuts noticeably faster and smoother than 3/8”. On my 66” and 72” bars, I typically use 3/8” ripping chains because .325 stretches too badly. If I have a suspicion there may be metal present, I’ll use 3/8” on the 44” and .404 on the longer bars because they are less likely to break.


Hope I didn’t add to the confusion.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

Nice post... but I'm out of bullets for ya Aggie. What 325 chain do you use?

Ian

 

[user 19670]

Get at least a 36" mill, and use a 42" bar on it.

A 42" bar on a 36" mill? Is that even possible?