Bit of a drop

[Slvrmple72]

I have been using 8' sections of Arbormaster with a spliced eye around the rope clip and a prusik loop on a clip to adjust length. I put a figure 8 in the other end of the AM as the stopper. This is my secondary tie in while I am cutting up in the tree with my climbing line typically set in a high crotch and connected to my saddle using the Blake's setup with a split tail. My climbing line is AM but a different color from the flipline setup so I dont get I took a bit of a drop the other day and my flipline bore the brunt of the fall and I ate a lot of bark The prusik was pretty burned up and cinched up tight to the 8 which was nearly impossible to untie. I cut the clips off and I am making the same setup but would like some suggestions for better quality Prusik loop line (Ice? HRC? Ultra-Tech)and or mech. adj. Does anyone use the 2 in 1 flipline setup? I stopped about a couple of feet straddling a lower limb...that could have been one hell of a crotch hop! OUCH!

 

[moray]

You don't say what your current prusik line is made of.

I am surprised it slipped at all when you fell. Also surprised it could develop much frictional heat from a short fall, unless you weigh 800 lbs. Heat resistance is usually not a property one worries about in a prusik cord for a safety.

I had a 2-in-1 safety for awhile, but quickly learned to hate it. It is two non-independent safeties in one, and that is very inconvenient. I use two stand-alone safeties now. It is a lot of stuff to carry up the tree with you, but you learn to keep it mostly out of your way. And when you really need both safeties to lock into a good position, there they are.

 

[Slvrmple72]

I forgot to mention the "limb" I dropped onto myself. It was about 4" dia. where I cut it and I failed to notice that one of its branches grew up and over another limb in the Red Maple causing it to shift back and into my lap from the leverage on that other limb as it began to drop. Stupid mistake! The line I have been using for my Prusik is a static kernmantle of about 3/8s" Dia. that I purchased a bulk reel from the local climbing store a few years back. Moray, I like your idea of two fliplines could you elaborate? Also, do you use a climbing line too?

 

[CRN Tree]

2 in 1

I'm with Moray had the 2 in 1 and know it sits in the bag in the truck. Thought I would like in but was hard to adjust and became a pain. I use two separate ones now can use them together if needed for more stability.

 

[Adkpk]

I'm with Moray had the 2 in 1 and know it sits in the bag in the truck. Thought I would like in but was hard to adjust and became a pain. I use two separate ones now can use them together if needed for more stability.

I'm with Moray too. I wrote in a thread about buying a 2 in 1 and he advised me to send it back, so I did. Now you just backed him up for me. Good call guys.

 

[moray]

I like your idea of two fliplines could you elaborate? Also, do you use a climbing line too?

Can't claim it as my idea. My system (there are MANY ways to do this) consists of one aluminum snap per flip line, each a different color. The line is 3-strand; the tail of each line ends in a back-splice to keep the prusik cord from coming off. Each prusik cord (I use 3/8 tenex) is connected to a side Dee with a steel quicklink (strong and small).

Do I use a climbing line, too? Usually, not always. I don't like hauling any more stuff up the tree than necessary. Today, for example, a friend and I installed a Wi-Fi radio transceiver 80 feet up in a White Pine. The radio needed an unobstructed view to the source radio 5.1 miles away. The source is located on the horizon, almost in the dead center of the photo. It was in the nature of things that we were going to have to remove one branch. It was a good-sized one, about 6 inches in diameter. I had my folding Silky saw with me, but I didn't expect to cut anything that big.

Having my 40' climbing line up in the tree made it a lot easier to hike myself out a few feet to make the first cut. With some haul cord we were able to "rig" the limb so we could pull it in, chop it into smaller pieces, and then throw them out of the tree.
We also had to make several trips down to 65feet where the top of the SRT line was to retrieve something or haul up some gear that the radio owner, on the ground, had forgotten. The climbing line was great for pulling the heavy gear bag up that last 15 feet, and of course it was handy for me when going up and down. Having 2 safeties made it easy to establish a rock-solid position for all the finicky work we had to do, including getting rid of the big limb.
Was all of this absolutely necessary? No. But everything got used, and I would rather do a little extra heavy lifting to get all that stuff up in the tree so that the tricky technical work is simpler and easier.

 

[Slvrmple72]

Nice View Moray! That is what I love about treework. I made a new flipline with clips and db rope. I spliced on the one clip and put the other clip on my Prusik which I tied with a sliding double fishermans knot so that I could cinch it down tight on the clip. On the other end of the db rope I put a small screwlink into another spliced eye. I did not bother with rope thimbles. I also used the same type of rope as before. I will just have to be a little more careful with my limb cutting. I ordered some more clips so I can make another flipline but with 3-strand this time. What would you recommend/suggest for the Prusik loop?

 

[moray]

Sounds like you are on a roll, Slvrmple. I hope your new flipline is longer than 8 feet--that would often be too short for me.

I like 3/8 Tenex for my prusik cord. No need for knots--I splice an eye on each end and use a Schwabisch for the knot. You would find it very easy to splice, much easier than double braid. Since it is hollow, it conforms to the safety rope much better than a solid cord, and in my experience gives a very good blend of reliable grab and easy slip. I use exactly the same setup on my Arbormaster climbing line, but the grab is not quite as reliable.

Each to his own, but your setup involves perhaps more bulky hardware than you need. Using a rope snap on the prusik cord is not only unnecessarily bulky, but a bit confusing. With two safeties in action, you will have 4 snaps. Surely there will be busy times when you look down at your belt and wonder which snap does what. If you used a screw link instead, you would never loosen it while in the tree, so you can put it out of your mind. The rule becomes: a snap connected to a Dee means the respective safety is holding you to the tree; releasing a snap will release the safety, but never drop the safety out of the tree. I don't think, if I have understood you correctly, that either of those statements is true of your setup. You have more bulk, and more to think about. And, oh yeah, a screw link costs about 1/4 as much as a snap.

Glad to hear you are making your own--it seems very few of us do...

 

[Slvrmple72]

Moray, I read your post and chucked my setup in the trash! Dug it out, wiped off the coffee grounds and eggshells and salvaged the parts. I always forget the KISS method ( Keep It Simple Stupid ) I am going to guess that you buy your Tenex in bulk (Sherrill Tree?) so you can splice it yourself. What size screwlink and what style (Pear, Oval, Triangle)? Aluminum or steel? Do you use the clips with the captive eye? I use a Weaver saddle w/leg loops and like the idea of connecting my fliplines with screwlinks on each opposite side D-ring so I wont accidentally unclip the wrong one. I use a different style of clip for my flipline and my climbing line so I can tell which one I have by feel but you are right I have gotten mixed up with so many clips on my belt. This must explain why I am so tired at the end of the day... lugging up so much extra and unnecessary metal Thank you for all your advice and letting me pick your brain. I should have a really nice 10' and 12' flipline by the end of next week, one AM and the other PM 3-strand. Thank you all for steering me clear of the 2-in-1 setup... besides I like making my own gear, just ordering it would feel like cheating

 

[moray]

Thanks for the kind words, Slvrmple. Here's a picture of one of my lanyards:

I have been taken to task on another thread for using steel screw links, especially since I use ones from my local hardware store. They are 3/8 in steel, stamped with a working load of 2200 lbs or thereabouts. If that makes you nervous, you can buy a (much) more expensive version from an arborist catalog. The whole point is to keep it small and strong. Not a bad idea to lightly tighten it with a wrench.

The pink tenex you see I actually found on Ebay. It is the sling grade "two end carrier" version, which is a little softer and a little easier to splice than the normal stuff. If you go on Ebay and search for "tenex rope", you will find the guy who runs a rope store on Ebay--he might have something you can use. You can also order it by the foot from either Sherrill or Wesspur.

I used to copy the commercial eye-eye slings, where they always seem to use the Brummel eye splice in hollow braid. I stopped doing that some time ago because I couldn't find any clear documentation about that method. It is actually easier to just follow the splicing intructions on Samson's web site. The published tensile strengths of their hollow braids, like Tenex, are actually measured using their standard spliced eye.

The picture doesn't show it, but I use a micropulley as a slack tender. The books usually show this being attached to the Dee via a swiveling dog leash snap, but I didn't like the slop that left in my system. You pull yourself in to where you want to be, but you will end up 3 or 4 inches further back before the prusik cord goes taut. So now I use an adjustable loop of parachute cord to tie the pulley to the quicklink. The idea is to make the cord loop about the same length as the prusik. When you go into slack-tending mode, the cord goes taut and the pulley starts to push the knot. But the prusik cord is also taut, or very nearly so, so that when you let go of the rope, you stay right there. Nice! It doesn't matter how long your eye-eye Tenex sling turns out; you tune the parachute cord to match it. Of course the parachute cord easily "swivels" around to keep up with any odd position of your safety rope.

Show us a picture of your new safeties.

 

[Slvrmple72]

Great Pic of your setup Moray. Took down a dying Norway Maple saturday and used a "test" flipline setup for the job incorporating a screwlink for connecting the Prusik to my left side Dee ring. I didn't have time to splice so I just tied DF knots to connect the clip to the flipline and the screwlink to the Prusik, a 3/8 steel screwlink which I picked up from the local Ace Hardware. The flipline worked great and I moved so much faster. Maybe cuz I was lighter? I could not use 3 of the 4 main limbs for a tie in but set a high tie in into the Silver Maple next to it as my primary with the 4th limb as my secondary and the flipline worked out great as the "3rd leg" of a stool. I am going to order the Tenex I need monday from E-bay so once I get everything together I will snap some pics to post. In the meantime here are some grainy camera-phone pics from the job.
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[moray]

Nice pics! I love that 3-legged stool effect from multiple attachment angles. In your 3rd photo, especially, I can see how you might appreciate an extra line or two.

You guys are way more leafed out than we are. The deciduous trees are at least starting to leaf out, but no trees have full-sized leaves yet. The most advanced are probably the maples. Probably will be June 1 before everything is fully there...

 

[moray]

For the sake of completeness, here's my slacktender.

When I first tried this out, I was worried that the parachute cord would get hung up on stuff, but I have been using it for months now, and it really hasn't.

 

[Bermie]

Here is a pic of a 20' lanyard I made in February.
Its XTC fire, a distel hitch of 10mm prussic cord, a slack tender clipped right into the carabiner. There is very little 'slack and sag' when you need to take it up one handed.
I made it 20' so I could use it as a 'triangulating' attachment point, not just a securing lanyard. The extra length on long branchwalks makes up for the sometimes irritation of dragging the tail after me in little trees.

 

[moray]

Pretty

That's very tidy, Bermie. Your setup illustrates one advantage of using knotted cord for the prusik: you can make it very very short. I can't do that with spliced Tenex, so I'm stuck with the long floppy slack tender.

Where are you in Bermuda? When I was a kid I spent 3 summers in Bermuda at the Bermuda Biological Station. Greatest time of my life!

 

[Bermie]

Thanks...only drawback is the fishermans knot by the clip gets caught in small angles sometimes, I stitched and whipped the other end, just don't have enough confidence to do the same for the weight bearing end!

Have you tried using a friction hitch that uses more rope? I did this on my wire core when the normal prussik had too much slack, I tied a distel in the eye spliced line and it used more line and set up tucked nicely close to the pulley and biner.

I know the Bio Station well, I do native and invasive plant lecturers for the Elderhostel programme, and I've done a fair bit of tree work there too, know several of the scientists too...really cool place, I'll be up there later this week!

 

[Slvrmple72]

Bermie, thank you for the pic of your lanyard setup it is very helpful.When you use the "tail" end of the line for an additional anchor would I assume correctly that you put a biner through it? Also what is the white "tape?" at both ends of your line. I like the long flipline idea and can see it as being tremendously useful for me especially with Silver Maples. I deal with a lot of them that send out limbs in every direction and up in the canopy that extra angle of attack would be perfect in addition to two tie in points with my climbing line. Silvers are notorious for losing branch ends (or whole branches) and I get a lot of cleanup calls after storms or high winds. After having one of my anchors crack and fail about fifty feet up I like to add an extra measure of safety whenever possible!

 

[Bermie]

Glad the pic is helpful!
As for the length, I adjust it through the distel, so sometimes the tail is extended all the way out till the stopper comes up to the distel, I don't clip the tail to anything. The lanyard is still on my side D's, although occasionaly I will move it to my extra bridge, I have a Butterfly harness, with the standard long sliding bridge, I actually attached the replacement one on as well so I have two bridges on the front, instead of crowding one bridge with biners and clips. The extra length is great especially with trees that are not well branched with long gaps between branches,

The white 'tape' on the clip end is waxed whipping twine (from my boating days) to secure the tail of the knot, the stopper end has the same but covering it is white and clear shrink tape with the date I made the lanyard and it's unique identifier number written on it. This is for my equipment records, I trained in the UK where all your kit has to be labeled and identifiable, I don't really need to do it here but it's a good habit and helps me know how long something has been in service and it's history of maintenance.

I also sometimes use three points of attachment, rather than hauling up the other end of my climbing line, I'll use the long lanyard, and my wire core. so I have, 1. climbing line, 2. long lanyard, 3 wire core . Possibly you could have four attachments!...the combinations are endless.opcorn:

 

[Slvrmple72]

No pics yet,been too busy and I am still waiting for some of the stuff I ordered to arrive. Gotta help finish a deck this weekend. Composite deck surface called " Veranda ". Really nice to work with. I will keep ya'll posted