Brands of Chain

[Chris-PA]

Several threads here specifically on PowerSharp chain. Here are a few;

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/oregon-powersharp.125402/

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/powersharp.148391/

I use it. I like it. It cuts pretty well and offers some advantages for guys who don't sharpen their own chains.

Limitations include the need to first buy into the system (bar, sharpening cassette, and chain), and selection (currently only available in 3/8 low profile, and fixed loop lengths - no reels).

If more saw manufacturers included this as an OEM option, I think it would catch on more. .325 chain is reportedly in development.

Philbert

Do it, it works. Easey peasey sharpening and cuts well. It cuts *different* but after a few minutes you (he) will get used to it.

If i was only cutting piddling small on a year to year basis, I would go powersharp and canned pre mix. Eliminate two major low use and lower maintenance issues.

Yeah, but now I'm realizing it's only in lo pro, and he's got a 0.325" MS250 and a 3/8 455R. So I'd have to give him a saw too, which is no big deal but then we'll getinto oil mix, as he's sold on carefully mixed 50:1 and anything I could give him really needs 40:1. He won't want to keep a second jug. Things are always more complicated then they should be!

I guess I could set one up with a Powersharp and let him run it at 50:1 - he mixes everything carefully with Echo Powerblend so it should be fine.

 

[Jimmy in NC]

I know some might call BS here but this is true.
Finishing up the firewood cutting season here I have a 24" loop of Oregon 72LGX on my 372xp. The last time it was on the grinder was every bit of 4 cords ago.
I was cutting mostly Doug Fir with some Tamarack mixed in there. Right now the chain cuts 90% of when it came off the grinder. (This chain stays sharp long enough for me)

Stihl chain is first class...But my local dealer is about 2.5 TIMES per loop what I can buy Oregon chain for. I cant justify that!

I have had to run in and have a loop right now twice in two months. Ran into the local dealer and both times I got hit for $.42/dl for Stihl RS. One was a loop of 1/4" stuff which was crazy but I almost forgave them as 1/4" is a bit harder to find. Monday it was just .325 .050" RS... nothing fancy and the same $.42/dl. Not doing it again.. EVER. Oregon or Carlton/Woodland Pro does fine by me.

 

[Swamp Yankee]

You can't sharpen the chrome.

Why not?

If so what are you using for a reference?

And if so where does it go when filed or ground?

Are you talking keenness of edge or cutter geometry?

More to follow, strapped for time right now.

Thanks in advance.

Take Care

 

[Swamp Yankee]

You can't sharpen the chrome.

Forgot one.

How much more chrome is on a plated Stihl cutter vs. a Carlton or Oregon cutter?

Thanks in Advance

Take Care

 

[Philbert]

Chrome is too brittle - breaks off if you tried to build it up thick and sharpen it. It's role is to 'back up' the steel cutter and resist abrasion. 'More' chrome is not necessary 'better'.

The actual thickness of chrome may vary with different size or types of cutters as well as between brands. Oregon, for example, sells a special 'Multi-Cut' cut version of some of their chains, designed for abrasive conditions (really dirty wood, old rail road ties, etc.). There has been a thread or two about that here on AS.

Philbert

 

[514mach1]

I use mostly Carlton. It's cheap and works fine. I tried one loop of Silver Streak chain and it was SOOOFT. Not good. I've also used Stihl and some old Oregon. Stihl, Oregon, and Carlton are all fine in my opinion. I have no issues filing any of them. On some of my saws the Carlton 'stretches' quickly. On others it doesn't. I think it's a matter of the oiler, rim, and bar that is making the difference. The Stihl does the same thing. With cleanish wood, a good amount of oil, good bar, and fresh rim, Calton lasts plenty fine for me and I can't really tell a difference between it and Stihl. With not quite as much oil, it does seem Stihl takes a little longer to get loose. Not enough difference for me to stop buying rolls of Carlton.

 

[albert c]

Oregon skip JGX - cuts like a beast, the Oregon loops they sell at the depot are not even on the same planet.

 

[Swamp Yankee]

Chrome is too brittle - breaks off if you tried to build it up thick and sharpen it. It's role is to 'back up' the steel cutter and resist abrasion. 'More' chrome is not necessary 'better'.

The actual thickness of chrome may vary with different size or types of cutters as well as between brands. Oregon, for example, sells a special 'Multi-Cut' cut version of some of their chains, designed for abrasive conditions (really dirty wood, old rail road ties, etc.). There has been a thread or two about that here on AS.

Philbert

OK.

But I still don't comprehend.

I'm assuming we're discussing keenness of edge not geometry since that question was never answered.

Based on my experience in metals, machining, and plating the standard flash hard chrome plating thickness averages .0001 inches with a tolerance of +/- .00005. (about 30 times smaller than a human hair) A heavy hard chrome usually runs .0003 with the same tolerance. The actual deposit will vary based upon process fluctuations in residence time in the tank, voltage and current, etc. Hard chrome can be used to build up a surface, ie. bearing shafts and bores etc. but that's a completely different process than used for flash.

Was going to attach links, but just google hard chrome or flash hard chrome and read for days.

So where does this lead? How can a "sharper" edge be produced using files or grinders based upon a thickness difference averaging .0002 of chrome? A file diameter will fluctuate at least .005 not to mention the out of round and straightness tolerances. Not even looking at how each cutter is held during the sharpening process and its manufacturing tolerances and the steadiness of hand of the filer. If you grind there's slop in the grinder bearings plus the runout of the wheel.

At these dimensions and tolerances by applying GD&T principles your not going to achieve a measurable and repeatable difference in edge keenness between the different manufacturer's products with the tools and tooling available. Theoretical perhaps but not in actual practice. No way the average Joe without a jig grinder is even capable of measuring or producing an edge within that realm of precision. As I see it the "sharpness" difference between brands is mute at best.

Haven't even discussed what would happen to that edge as soon as it touched wood at speed.

Now there's still the cutter geometry question but the same tolerance issues apply.

Take Care

 

[dingeryote]

Does any one else think Carlton is a royal pain to hand file?

Carlton can be a PITA to file after the first outing. The teeth get surface hardened a bit and need a bit more love with the file to break the "Crust".
After that it's no harder than Stihl to hand file. Part of the trade off with having a cutter that dosn't go dull fast, is bieng slightly tougher to file.

Oregon files real easy.

 

[Homelite410]

Carlton can be a PITA to file after the first outing. The teeth get surface hardened a bit and need a bit more love with the file to break the "Crust".
After that it's no harder than Stihl to hand file. Part of the trade off with having a cutter that dosn't go dull fast, is bieng slightly tougher to file.

Oregon files real easy.

Well I think that crust is the chrome on the face if the tooth if I'm not mistaken. I just filed a loop of Stihl RSLHK and it seemed really easy to file!

 

[dingeryote]

Well I think that crust is the chrome on the face if the tooth if I'm not mistaken. I just filed a loop of Stihl RSLHK and it seemed really easy to file!

Nah!!.
The teeth get the final grind after chroming.

The "Crust" you're dealing with is slight surface hardening from bieng heated up during the grind.
Now and then with Carlton and sometimes Oregon, you'll run into that. I Reckon the guy running the final grind machine gets in a hurry once in a while and sets the drop rate too fast.
Folks that run a dull chain too long, or are cutting end grain and heat the cutters up too much, run into the same issue, even with Stihl chain.

I keep a cheapo 7/32 Diamond file near the bench for just that purpose. Couple of swipes and a decent file will grab again.

If it was chrome, you'd be there all day. Save edge files are good, but not THAT good.

 

[Swamp Yankee]

Nah!!.
The teeth get the final grind after chroming.

The "Crust" you're dealing with is slight surface hardening from bieng heated up during the grind.
Now and then with Carlton and sometimes Oregon, you'll run into that. I Reckon the guy running the final grind machine gets in a hurry once in a while and sets the drop rate too fast.

Or

They didn't like getting splashed by the coolant because they were to lazy to put the splash guards back after changing out a wheel so they shut it off or moved the nozzle so the liquid doesn't actually flood the grinding operation.

Didn't bother to dress / change the wheel when needed.

Blanks are too long and more material than intended was removed in one pass.

Blank alloy was screwed up and the points of carbon were out of spec on the high side.

Not that I've ever seen operators and vendors doing any of the above.

Take Care

 

[Stihlman441]

Stihl chain is just far more superior you only get what you pay for better the devil you know

Ya but is it twice as good as Carlton,Stihl chain is a least double the price of Carlton in Ozz and at times i can go throw a chain in a week cutting dry dirty stuff.

 

[Homelite410]

Nah!!.
The teeth get the final grind after chroming.

If it was chrome, you'd be there all day. Save edge files are good, but not THAT good.

Totally forgot that...... disregard please

 

[740jsmayle]

Stihl or Oregon $1 an inch 20" chain $21.40. Carlton is $19.50 around here from a small local dealer

 

[Philbert]

My understanding is that STIHL and Oregon both sharpen cutters prior to assembling them into the chain, and that Carlton sharpens them after they are assembled into a chain (used to? still?). This was one of the things that caused Ray Carlton to jump ship and found his own saw chain company.

Not sure how that might affect initial sharpening by the user.

http://carltonproducts.com/carlton_company_history.asp

Philbert