calculating for a timberframe

[irishcountry]

Ok I am new to this forum and I have been reading posts for awhile seems like a bunch of knowledgeable and motivated people here that love milling and someday I hope to be one of them. I have a question about milling beams for a timberframe first can you really do this with just a simple setup like a 2x8 lumbermaker like you see for sale on ebay or is this somthing that would be better to plan and save for and get a bandsaw sawmill? Second how in the world could you figure out how many trees it would take to frame out a 1800 to 2000 sq. ft. house or cabin. A little background I have about 3 to 4 really big pines way too close to my house, just guessing but about 60 to 70 ft. tall along with some (3) very large diameter Maples (probrobly soft) and at least one huge old oak that one day or another are going to need to be dropped I really hate to burn them at least all of them when they could make some nice wood for either a cabin or wood or that could eventually be used for a remodel at least. I know that there are many variables to all of these questions but any information would be greatly appreciated. Currently I have no way to mill any of this stuff and so far all the stuff we have dropped we turned into firewood (tree of heaven, various pines ect.) but all the trees are old and going to go for one reason or another, we have alot of large willows next to a pond but I know that most people say its really useless except for instrument building but would be kinda neat to make something with it because its been growing on this property for years back to the previous owner and from stories I hear he took great pride in this place and I want to keep the tradition.

 

[OZDOG]

Nice tradition

welcome to the forum. if i wasn't all the way away in australia i would love to come and mill your trees. unfortunately i don't know how to answer your question about how many trees it might take for the timber you want but it does seem like a shame if you were to burn that wood. i think it's a nice tradition that you are trying to uphold there, sounds like a nice bit of land. if you can keep a piece of what you clear and you are surrounded by it in your home you will feel a good sense of satisfaction that you didn't waste it. let us know how you go.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Keep in mind, to have the beams stay as straight as possible while "drying" in place, you need to take one beam from the center of each tree... (center the heartwood) So, every major beam in the timber frame needs one tree...

That doesn't mean you can't use all the side wood for something else!!! You need lots of lumber for flooring, walls ect... All of this comes from the "side wood" off those beams...

Look on line and find a TF house you like, then count the beams and there aprox length to get an idea of what it will take... That will get you started!

Can you do this with a CSM?? Of course you can, but even a small bandmill will be half the work with a huge amount of less wood waste, and also MUCH faster too...

BTW, TF houses are built with green wood right off the mill, so some speed is important....

Rob

 

[irishcountry]

Thanks for the tips!!

Hey thanks for the quick posts. I actually just found out that they use green timber on timberframes which took care of another question on cutting and storing beams for use down the road, I'm sure you could do that too but might cause problems not being straight twists ect. I didn't realize that the major beams came from the center but that makes sense. In all reality it will be a long time before I tackle such a project but never hurts to gather all the info you can I guess for now all the trees will just keep making more wood!! I do think down the road I will look into a bandmill either buy one or make one. Anyone with any info on the mentioned woods especially willow feel free to post away. thank you for your time.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Willow is full of water and grows fast... It's hard to dry straight and it's NOT very strong. Also it rots quite easily if it's near the ground. It doesn't make very good firewood either, but if i have some that's dry, i burn it! I use my stove ashes on the gardens so if willow makes a lot of ashes i don't care...

I've sawn willow, and then nailed it up green for nonstructural use, and it works fine for that. I'd saw more of it if i had a use for it after sawn...

Rob

 

[Adkpk]

How's this use

http://www.sticksite.com/willow.htm
I haven't finished one yet but as soon as I find time I am going to try.

Sound like a huge project Irish. How are you going to lift all that timber? Are you going to do the building yourself? Sounds to me like to mill all that lumber you are going to save money buying a band saw. It is tough on a chainsaw and YOU to mill. Most practical use (csm)is the convenience to transport it. If I were you I look at maintaining a larger two cycle engine rather than a 4 cycle.

You should try looking at architecture sites for more info on timber frame building. Imo it's something you don't get right the first time you try it. I say timber frame building is kind of an art.

There are formulas for calculating board feet, I can't find my bookmark for the site. There are threads on this site for info also.

I am building a small (200 sq ft) cabin timber frame style. I am completely on my ear . (I am doing it as I go) With what is available in the immediate vicinity. Not bringing in any foreign materials, save some nails and tools. It is an art project. I am doing it for my enjoyment and can tell you it is hard work, sometimes I think I am crazy. But I try not to think to much.:hmm3grin2orange:

Good luck and keep posting.

 

[woodshop]

Welcome to AS Irish... as others have said, willow is not the most desirable wood. It lacks many qualities needed for so many things. I've milled it, mills reall easy. I've worked it in the woodshop, and can tell you that you need VERY sharp tools, and even then you will get a fuzzy finish running through the planer or jointer. As you pointed out, so happens that instrument makers, violins and such, use willow for the glue blocks when they assemble their instruments. Apparently it has the best qualities for that, as it is light, strong enough for the relativly light duty it has to perform, and can be easily disassembled when the piece needs to be refurbished. I have sent some up to New England to a luthier. They need good quality stuff though... strait grain, no knots or defects of course... premium wood.

 

[woodshop]

HEY adrpk... nifty quick and dirty camp chair... I wanna make one of them. Thanks for that link.

 

[Adkpk]

HEY adrpk... nifty quick and dirty camp chair... I wanna make one of them. Thanks for that link.

Ya, keep us posted, I will if I get the time to finish mine. I am trying to make the frame out of yew and the seat and back out of willow.

 

[Rodauthor]

Timber Frame

I don't mean to discourage you but you have alot to discover yet . . I have a timber frame home(all DIY) . . Michigan White Pine ..some of the early on things you may need are . .plans . . and a structural engineer to certify those plans . .most zoning administrations now require that for timber frames and log cabins . . Only after you have the plans can you develope an idea of the shopping list you need . . the pine you mentioned is the only wood that could be used for construction . .the other flavors just won't cut it . . Good Luck but it is a Grand Aventure

 

[Railomatic]

If you need detailed information on timber framed buildings, you are better off contacting your local group or you could ask the guys at this site
www.carpentersfellowship.co.uk or similar groups in your own country.

As Sawyer Rob says, you need to make the main load bearing parts of the house from the best heartwoods of oak or similar timbers like Elm or even
Larch, which I have used before.

If you use different parts and grades of timber in the main frame construction it will all move at different rates over the settling period.

Willow is definately not one I would opt for beams, but one can use anything you choose, as long as it will cary out your task.
For floors, Poplar and beach are ideal, many of the old hoast house floors were lined with this, it was very good for its fire resistent properties.

After you have cut your oak beams, you can either let them dry for a couple of months or so to get the first 30% of water out of them, before using them into the structure, or put them in place green, as many builders did who were against the seasons, if you cut timber in winter, the sap has slowed down, but if very cold will cause all sorts of other problems with frost.

Yew is an excellent timber for doors and other parts where strength is needed a friend of mine has yew boards in his house, that go from the ground floor all the way up to the atic, where they act as the walls between the living room and staircase, the house is about 900 years old.

When your house is done it will look great with all the period parts made from timber, do your research, use what ever timber you can get if its for nothing the best way I think, have a search around the area for timber that is normally chipped up, you know the non commercial stuff that no one else wants, there always plenty around, what may not look good for the job is sometimes the best for the job, once you have milled it that is.

 

[irishcountry]

WOW lots of posts!!

Well that was alot of reading!! Thanks everyone for all the info. I like the positive spirit rail-o-matic. And by the way once you get your mill project complete i'd like to see your rig if i'm not mistaken you had the thread about building a mill and I like the 4-cycle engine idea. I know all the things i've metioned seem like alot of work but i'm pretty motivated and have and dreamer state of mind about alot of things, at one time about 7-8 years ago I didn't think I could teach myself to play guitar let alone make one from scratch (raw wood mostly done with no power tools) and get into a band so now I set my sights high. Like I stated before all this stuff may not happen for quite awhile but I guess trees keep growing which means more wood to mill in the future right?!! I know one maple that is going to have to come down for sure pretty quick cuz' its pushing up on my concrete slab in my dining room and has cracked the tile. If for now I have more firewood I guess thats O.K. but in all reality I would rather see some of it become something useful and beautiful. I have another question about milled wood that I will start a new post on dealing with local codes and building materials so keep an eye out!! Thanks everyone this is a great place for information and a active place to post@@

 

[Railomatic]

I forgot to mention, once you have sized your beams and posts, do not try to re-size them after they have settled for a few months or so, or the timber that has settled to where they want to be in a given section, wil move again and splitting can occur, sometimes quite badly, and spoil the look of them.