can ya run skunk pee for bar oil

[Booshcat]

Paging GARY! clean up in aisle 12.

 

[Turkeyslayer]

 

[BobL]

If you guys think you are paying high prices for bar oil, spare a thought for us paying US$24 a gallon for stihl bar oil, and canola costs ~US$16 a gallon from the supermarket.

I have been using Stihl bar oil on the saw and canola on my auxiliary oiler on my mills but am looking for cheaper solutions.

I've tried using straight canola in the saw but I could see pretty quickly far too much was flung off at the nose and not enough made it around the nose to the business side of the bar so it's clearly not sticky enough on it's own.

Recently I've looked up a few viscosity values and it looks like Canola oil is around 1/4 the viscosity of mineral oil (SAE30). Given that regular (mineral) bar oil has tackifier added as well, the straight canola does not sound like the way to go.

I have found a bulk supplier of a mixed canola and tallow oils for less than half the price of supermarket canola which I hope to get a hold of in a few weeks time. I will test the viscosity of this oil and compare it to regular bar and dino oil.

I can also get a hold of cheap glycerine to maybe act as a tackifier. I will ask a few of the white coats at work if they reckon this is worth a go.

 

[Freehand]

It's called a 'tackifier' that is added to bar oil and no, it isn't corn starch..... (or STP for that matter, which is a viscosity index improver, which is something different again)

Where exactly does one obtain a "tackifier"....just to add to the cheap walmart oils if noting else.....

Well, pondering this, I remember as a kid we had biscuits and gravy for breakfast just about every day and some mornings the gravy was kinda thin. It consisted of lard, bacon or sausage grease with a little flour and milk so I guess that would work, sorta thick and the grease would make it slick.:hmm3grin2orange: And if you spilled any, you could just sop it up with a biscuit, environmentally friendly.

Har har har.......wiseguy:smoking:

 

[JONSSTIHL]

anyone running motion lotion from baileys, price isn<t too bad

I'm thinking of trying it out

 

[BobL]

Where exactly does one obtain a "tackifier"....just to add to the cheap walmart oils if noting else.....

Tackifier can be obtained from most quality oil suppliers.

EG Paratac (Exxon?)
http://www.trclubricants.com/specialtyoils/nosplashoilwithparatac/nosplashoilwithparatac.html

In this thread Lakeside discussed Paratac - it's worth a read to see what the master has to say about it.

The problem with adding tackifier to cheap bar oil is that you don't know how much is in there all ready and you can have too much and it will totally gum up the Chain. It may be better adding it to cheap engine oil. But tackifiers not cheap and it will probably work out the same for the average joe in terms of cost.

Most MSDS from bar and chain oil suppliers won't say exactly how much tackifier is present.
EG: Motion Lotion says it is 95% mineral oil and between 0.5 and 5% tackifier? It would be interesting to know what the rest is.

Another reason for using tackifier is that mineral oil has a nominal air exposure safety limit of only 5 mg/cubic metre, which is only 0.000005 oz/cubic ft. For operators that use cheap oil that mostly sprays off at the nose I wonder how close they are to that limit?

 

[tdi-rick]

The tackifier amount is fairly minimal Bob, the balance of that 5% are EP and AW additives (minimal compared to an engine or diff oil too)
Bar oil is just a basic Group I oil with a few simple additives, and not much of those from what I can gather or from what you've posted re Motion Lotion. Good engine oils are around 25% additives, but they do need to do a more complex job too.

Paratac is a brand product of Infineum, the other addiive suppliers like Vanderbilt and Lubrizol have their own versions.
A blender I've spoken to reckons most add too much in his opinion, adding more almost as a marketing edge.

Lubrizol have an excellent formulated additive for high oleic canola or sunflower oil, Lubrizol 7662 which is added at 18-20%/volume. It contains anti-oxidants, EP and AW additives, tackifier, etc and leaves the oils biodegradability at >90%

FWIW, Tree Machine has used straight canola for over seven years without any known problems. There used top be a huge thread or three on this.

 

[tomtrees58]

ok then what do you guys & girls run, i use stihl brand but its 13.00$ .Igot a lot of money in bars.

you get Wat you pay for simple cheap oil buy more bars:jawdrop: tom trees

 

[Steve NW WI]

I've said it before, but it's worth saying again.

I don't have a "favorite" oil, but I recently bought some bulk stuff from my Dolmar/Jred dealer. I can't remember the company name on the barrel, but it "looks" to be good, and supposed to flow to -20°F.

Which brings me to my point, anyone cutting in colder than about +40°F should be using an oil thin enough to flow. "Do-It-Best Brand Winter Grade" is NOT winter grade!
Avoid that crap like the plague mixed with H1N1!!! You can't chisel that stuff out of the jug at 32°. I complained to a couple people about it, the Do-It-Best people blew me off, the local farm store I bought it from gave me a refund and pulled it from the shelves. Good people there.

I don't know if it may have just been a bad lot, or if it's all like that, but I do know Dingeryote had an identical experience with it. I was hostile enough with the corporate attitude I got that I will buy NOTHING that says "Do It Best" on it.

 

[BobL]

The tackifier amount is fairly minimal Bob, the balance of that 5% are EP and AW additives (minimal compared to an engine or diff oil too)
Bar oil is just a basic Group I oil with a few simple additives, and not much of those from what I can gather or from what you've posted re Motion Lotion. Good engine oils are around 25% additives, but they do need to do a more complex job too.

Paratac is a brand product of Infineum, the other addiive suppliers like Vanderbilt and Lubrizol have their own versions.
A blender I've spoken to reckons most add too much in his opinion, adding more almost as a marketing edge.

Lubrizol have an excellent formulated additive for high oleic canola or sunflower oil, Lubrizol 7662 which is added at 18-20%/volume. It contains anti-oxidants, EP and AW additives, tackifier, etc and leaves the oils biodegradability at >90%

FWIW, Tree Machine has used straight canola for over seven years without any known problems. There used top be a huge thread or three on this.

I would use all canola if I could but one big difference is Tree Machine is not milling our type of wood, I agree that flow off the chain is essential otherwise the chain ends up a one giant oily rope but I don't agree with TM in this thread that tackifier only applies to low RPM applications and all that is needed is flow. Flow is no help if most of of the oil flows off at the nose.

I've tried raw Canola on the 076 and the bar/chain runs about 10-15ºC hotter than with Stihl oil, and it was very obvious that far too much got thrown off at the nose and not enough made it around to the business side of the bar so I stopped using it in teh saw. The canola retention problem self compounds because a hotter bar and chain drops the visocity of the canola and even more gets flung off. On this graph the viscosity drops by about a 1/3 when its temp goes from 60 to 80ºC.

An 076 can only deliver 19 mL/min of oil so I have to run my Aux oiler (with canola) at around the same rate or a bit higher, to get enough into the cutting side of the bar. None of that oil is lost at the nose because the aux oiling point is on the same side of the bar as the cut.

On the 880, being higher reving and being able to deliver 38 mL/min the % oil loss problem at the nose is even worse. However, because it can deliver so much oil to start with I can drop the dino oil flow from the saw slightly and top up with the aux oiler.

The ideal place for the bar oil to flow or spray off, along with the sawdust, at is the sprocket. This tells me the oil has done its job and at least some of it made it around the nose. When I tune my saws on the mill on my field working table the power head hangs over the side of the table and I inadvertently have my left boot directly underneath the sprocket cover. When I use canola in the saw and tune the saw I seem to get relatively little on my boot and a lot coming of at the nose - when I use bar oil, my boot gets smothered in oil. My concern is when the bar gets up to milling that there won't be much canola around.

I am very interested in the Lubrizol - is it sold in Australia?

It's interesting that 20% Lubrizol has to be added to canola where as 5% or 1/4 of tackifier is added to mineral oil. The factor four difference is consistent with the factor 4 difference in viscosity of canola and basic mineral oil.

 

[dingeryote]

I've said it before, but it's worth saying again.

I don't have a "favorite" oil, but I recently bought some bulk stuff from my Dolmar/Jred dealer. I can't remember the company name on the barrel, but it "looks" to be good, and supposed to flow to -20°F.

Which brings me to my point, anyone cutting in colder than about +40°F should be using an oil thin enough to flow. "Do-It-Best Brand Winter Grade" is NOT winter grade!
Avoid that crap like the plague mixed with H1N1!!! You can't chisel that stuff out of the jug at 32°. I complained to a couple people about it, the Do-It-Best people blew me off, the local farm store I bought it from gave me a refund and pulled it from the shelves. Good people there.

I don't know if it may have just been a bad lot, or if it's all like that, but I do know Dingeryote had an identical experience with it. I was hostile enough with the corporate attitude I got that I will buy NOTHING that says "Do It Best" on it.

:agree2::agree2::agree2:

Do-IT brand bar oil is a JOKE!!!
The winter grade stuff flows like grannys strawberry preserves, stinks, and when it's warmed up in fricking August it still flows like 90wt gear oil untill ya cut it with diesel.

In winter ya can't even get the #### outta the jug without squeezing it.
I finally burned mine up by mixing it with Husky winter and diesel.

It's the EBOLA of Bar oils LOL!!!

I shake my head whenever I think that I paid like 11 bucks for a gallon of that crap.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[tdi-rick]

Bob, Lubrizol have offices here, they are possibly the largest additive supplier in the world. I have no idea of their minimum buy quantities though.
Companies like Lubrizol tend to do all the testing when it comes to new oil specs, then offer packages to the smaller oil companies (think Penrite, etc) to mix with their bases to meet the standards.

The 5% vs 20% thing could be the difference between a cheap vs well formulated oil too.
With 20% of their 7662 and 2% of 7441 additives (7441 is a viscosity modifier) an oil with a high oleic acid canola base has a viscosity of 22.9cSt @100*C, a VI of 207 (which is amazing, Group I mineral oils are around 90-95) a 4 ball wear scar of 0.69mm and a Timken OK load of 45lb and a pour point of -33*C.

I have numbers for sunflower, 'normal' canola and TMP trioleate too. They are all fairly comparable.

 

[BobL]

Bob, Lubrizol have offices here, they are possibly the largest additive supplier in the world. I have no idea of their minimum buy quantities though.
Companies like Lubrizol tend to do all the testing when it comes to new oil specs, then offer packages to the smaller oil companies (think Penrite, etc) to mix with their bases to meet the standards.

The 5% vs 20% thing could be the difference between a cheap vs well formulated oil too.
With 20% of their 7662 and 2% of 7441 additives (7441 is a viscosity modifier) an oil with a high oleic acid canola base has a viscosity of 22.9cSt @100*C, a VI of 207 (which is amazing, Group I mineral oils are around 90-95) a 4 ball wear scar of 0.69mm and a Timken OK load of 45lb and a pour point of -33*C.

I have numbers for sunflower, 'normal' canola and TMP trioleate too. They are all fairly comparable.

Thanks for all the info - I see you posted something similar on bobtheoilguy. So it looks like 7662/7441 has basically doubled the viscosity of the canola. It will be interesting to see what the Canola with the Tallow additive will be in comparison.

 

[ropensaddle]

The cheap Poulan bar oil at Wal-Mart and Blowes is actually pretty good...it's thick and got lots of tack...strings like crazy (I've been using it for years )

The cheap "Ace" brand bar oil at Ace Hardware is good...not great...not near as much tack and its thin. It works good on long bars with the oiler cranked wide open. It's $3.99 gal.

On the skunk topic, I used to hunt them in the morning before I went to school...with a home-made bow and arrow (when I was growing up my father said I could only hunt with something I made with my own two hands, out of natural materials...a bow and arrows was the best thing I could come up with).
I used to shoot the skunks from a decent distance, make 'em dead...and never got sprayed...but usually stepped in the spray and got it on my boots.
Then spend the whole day at school stinking like skunk and no one ever could figure out who it was!

you got new bling lol

 

[voxac30dude]

husqvarna has some pretty good bar oil. it seems to stay on the bar pretty well and not fling off like some cheaper brands. $5.00 a quart.

 

[Freehand]

husqvarna has some pretty good bar oil. it seems to stay on the bar pretty well and not fling off like some cheaper brands. $5.00 a quart.

That's 20$ a gallon.......NO bar oil is worth that.:jawdrop:

 

[GASoline71]

He lives in Hawaii mang... everything is more expensive there...

Gary

 

[rbtree]

The cheap Poulan bar oil at Wal-Mart and Blowes is actually pretty good...it's thick and got lots of tack...strings like crazy (I've been using it for years )

The cheap "Ace" brand bar oil at Ace Hardware is good...not great...not near as much tack and its thin. It works good on long bars with the oiler cranked wide open. It's $3.99 gal.

The Walmart oil, I don't find very thick. but my bars aren't wearing. It seems OK. but it is now $7.50 gallon.

There's a couple Ace HW around, I'll check their prices.....

 

[striperswaper]

last winter when I went to buy some husky oil at blows and asked for it the winter grade got a blank look and a bit later "what is winter grade?"

 

[rob066]

Lately I have been running a brand called Save A Chain. It cost 8.85 a gallon. This oil seems to be fairly tacky to guard against oil sling.